Coronavirus outbreak

[Down by the River]

14 minutes ago, riffraff said:

My stance is.  Should freedoms be removed based on inconclusive science.  I say no.

 

nobody has accepted patchy science before to any benefit.

Inconclusive science is not always patchy science. 

 

 

[riffraff]

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

Would you go volunteer in an ICU without PPE right now?

 

Honest answer.

I honestly don’t know if ppe is effective or not.  I hear it stops transmissions but does not stop infection?????

 

To be honest I would have to say with my convictions/stance atm It would be somewhat hypocritical if I said no to your question.

 

i will say that I am willing to help anyone at any time.  And I would 100% step up if I was required to do so.

 

i admit the level would help would be different relative to a family member vs a total stranger.

 

as well I’m not really a believer in continual help for people who make bad choices but Covid has nothing to do with that stance.

 

hopefully that’s honest enough for you.

[riffraff]

Just now, Down by the River said:

Inconclusive science is not always patchy science. 

 

 

You’re right not always 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I think the issues between these cities/countries are different although there are some consistencies.

 

the articles relative to Italy are quite telling.

 

with New York....unfortunately that is obvious us territory and anyone’s guess is worthy as to what the hell is going on down south.

How so?

[Mackcanuck]

Maybe we should listen to her rather than the riffraff

 

Dr. Bonnie Henry,
Provincial Health Officer

Dr. Bonnie Henry was appointed as provincial health officer for the Province of BC effective February 1, 2018.

Dr. Bonnie Henry was the deputy provincial health officer for three years starting in August of 2014 and prior to that served as the interim provincial executive medical director of the BC Centre for Disease Control from December 2013 until August 2014.

She was also the medical director of Communicable Disease Prevention and Control and Public Health Emergency Management with the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control and medical director for the provincial emerging and vector-borne diseases program as well as a provincial program for surveillance and control of healthcare associated infections; a position she started in February of 2005.

She joined Toronto Public Health in September 2001 as associate medical officer of health where she was responsible for the Emergency Services Unit and the Communicable Disease Liaison Unit. In 2003, she was the operational lead in the response to the SARS outbreak in Toronto. She was a member of the executive team of the Ontario SARS Scientific Advisory Committee.

She is a specialist in public health and preventive medicine and is board certified in preventive medicine in the U.S. She graduated from Dalhousie Medical School and completed a Masters in Public Health in San Diego, residency training in preventive medicine at University of California, San Diego and in community medicine at University of Toronto.

Dr. Henry has worked internationally including with the WHO/UNICEF polio eradication program in Pakistan and with the World Health Organization to control the Ebola outbreak in Uganda.

Dr. Henry is an associate professor at the University of British Columbia, Faculty of Medicine. She is the past chair of Immunize Canada and a member of the Canadian National Advisory Committee on Immunization and the National Infection Control Guidelines Steering Committee. She chaired the Canadian Public Health Measures Task Group and was a member of the Infection Control Expert Group and the Canadian Pandemic Coordinating Committee responding to pandemic H1N1 (2009) influenza.

She has been involved with planning, surveillance and response to mass gatherings in Canada and internationally, including with the 2010 Vancouver Olympic and Paralympic Games. She is the author of “Soap and Water and Common Sense” a guide to staying healthy in a microbe filled world.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Mackcanuck

[riffraff]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

How so?

Pre existing conditions relative to confirmed infections and confirmed deaths.

 

pre existing environmental conditions for those living in Italian cities.

[coastal.view]

1 minute ago, riffraff said:

I honestly don’t know if ppe is effective or not.  I hear it stops transmissions but does not stop infection?????

 

To be honest I would have to say with my convictions/stance atm It would be somewhat hypocritical if I said no to your question.

 

i will say that I am willing to help anyone at any time.  And I would 100% step up if I was required to do so.

 

i admit the level would help would be different relative to a family member vs a total stranger.

 

as well I’m not really a believer in continual help for people who make bad choices but Covid has nothing to do with that stance.

 

hopefully that’s honest enough for you.

wow really?

 

you really would take such risks based on your apparent belief in your own expertise

 

i find that a bit stunning

not sure why you would ignore so much data about this disease

and look to the examples of successful strategies

that have greatly limited transmissions (and i specifically exclude china's strategy)

[riffraff]

1 minute ago, Mackcanuck said:

Maybe we should listen to her rather than the riffraff

 

Dr. Bonnie Henry,
Provincial Health Officer

Dr. Bonnie Henry was appointed as provincial health officer for the Province of BC effective February 1, 2018.

Dr. Bonnie Henry was the deputy provincial health officer for three years starting in August of 2014 and prior to that served as the interim provincial executive medical director of the BC Centre for Disease Control from December 2013 until August 2014.

She was also the medical director of Communicable Disease Prevention and Control and Public Health Emergency Management with the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control and medical director for the provincial emerging and vector-borne diseases program as well as a provincial program for surveillance and control of healthcare associated infections; a position she started in February of 2005.

She joined Toronto Public Health in September 2001 as associate medical officer of health where she was responsible for the Emergency Services Unit and the Communicable Disease Liaison Unit. In 2003, she was the operational lead in the response to the SARS outbreak in Toronto. She was a member of the executive team of the Ontario SARS Scientific Advisory Committee.

She is a specialist in public health and preventive medicine and is board certified in preventive medicine in the U.S. She graduated from Dalhousie Medical School and completed a Masters in Public Health in San Diego, residency training in preventive medicine at University of California, San Diego and in community medicine at University of Toronto.

Dr. Henry has worked internationally including with the WHO/UNICEF polio eradication program in Pakistan and with the World Health Organization to control the Ebola outbreak in Uganda.

Dr. Henry is an associate professor at the University of British Columbia, Faculty of Medicine. She is the past chair of Immunize Canada and a member of the Canadian National Advisory Committee on Immunization and the National Infection Control Guidelines Steering Committee. She chaired the Canadian Public Health Measures Task Group and was a member of the Infection Control Expert Group and the Canadian Pandemic Coordinating Committee responding to pandemic H1N1 (2009) influenza.

She has been involved with planning, surveillance and response to mass gatherings in Canada and internationally, including with the 2010 Vancouver Olympic and Paralympic Games. She is the author of “Soap and Water and Common Sense” a guide to staying healthy in a microbe filled world.

I’m not telling you to listen to me.

[Jester13]

9 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Don’t disagree.

 

i would like to see hard science before freedoms are restricted further and more severely.  Basically the root of my stance.

 

a timeline for restrictions would be helpful too but I suppose that can’t happen right now.

Exactly what I said earlier in my response to samurai's video: we can't wait when we're in the heart of a global pandemic. Sure, preventative or hindsight is easy to claim we need more credible and accurate data, but we can only react based off what we have and do our best.

 

8 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I don’t know.  But many are dying from many things.

 

and part of the debate is how many will die as a result of “the cure”

 

tough times.

As the one blog that you posted says (paraphrasing), a contrarian stance can be wrong. 

 

I personally think that judging by the response of the world with this, those responses should be more trusted than a contrarian attitude of "the overreaction "could" be worse."

 

The best way to know is to react rather than not, even if it turns out to be an overreaction, because I also think the chances of it being a massive overreaction that's worse than doing nothing or very little is wrong, again, judging by the response of those in charge and who know better. 

[riffraff]

Just now, coastal.view said:

wow really?

 

you really would take such risks based on your apparent belief in your own expertise

 

i find that a bit stunning

not sure why you would ignore so much data about this disease

and look to the examples of successful strategies

that have greatly limited transmissions (and i specifically exclude china's strategy)

Life involves risk. I was asked if I would help my fellow man.  Sometimes that’s risky.

[Monty]

3 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Well hate is a strong word and I encourage you to look into the source of that hate.  For hate,  (And I know you don’t actually hate because you are awesome). Can be changed if we look at ourselves first.

Yeah, was definitely just kidding.

 

The whole thing is just absolutely sad, but also not cut and dry as we would like it to be. Colleague of mine, her father passed away two days ago. He was already in the hospital, and the family was saying it was going to be no more than a week before he passed away. He contracted Covid-19 on Tuesday and died on Thursday. The last update we got from her on the Wednesday (before the email of his passing on Thursday) was that Covid-19, while not a terrific thing to hear, was not the reason he was in the hospital to begin with (at the age of 92). They were prepared for his passing.

 

It’s difficult, as everyone is saying (and I believe you are as well), because it’s fast moving and there are differing stances in the medical community, as well, on what should and what shouldn’t be done. As a capitalist myself, I really don’t like everything shutting down and the long term ramifications to individuals and the economy.

 

However, I also know that everyone is scared and because of the inconclusive science and the rate at which people are contracting Covid-19, erring on the side of caution is best option (though not without its causes of concern as we’re also well aware of) until more evidence and research has been done. This is the best any of us can do.

[Mackcanuck]

Just now, riffraff said:

I’m not telling you to listen to me.

I'm not, your little game is dangerous

[riffraff]

1 minute ago, Mackcanuck said:

I'm not, your little game is dangerous

K.

 

good luck and be safe.

[coastal.view]

1 minute ago, riffraff said:

Life involves risk. I was asked if I would help my fellow man.  Sometimes that’s risky.

well you are free to live how you wish

 

but i do note this is the second time you have responded to one of my posts

and did not deal with the content of my post

 

but simply just said something neutral so you could continue down your present path and narrative

that provides thin value to me

so i'm not spending more energy on this discussion

[Gawdzukes]

55 minutes ago, stawns said:

It sounds to me like he thinks he knows more than experts and this is the the time to promote pseudoscience.......not when Ontario had 27 deaths in one day and will likely have 50+ a day by mid week.

 

It's that attitude that led people to shrug it off three weeks ago, to continue to mingle and live their lives, despite what infectious disease experts were telling us.

Well I haven't been following as closely as you so I don't what this poster has been posting ... so maybe this is just a poster debate I'll remove myself from.

 

It is possible he is just trying to look at it from both sides of the coin. I haven't heard him say anything like he's out infecting people or anything, or that we're all dumb. he is just will to challenge some of the prevalent thoughts, which I have no problem with. Sometimes questioning an ideal does not mean you don't ultimately agree with it. Although he is an oddball poster who chimes in here and there on subjects and with attitudes I find different he strikes me as an intellectually intelligent guy capable of forming and researching thoughtful ideas .... even when he is wrong. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Gawdzukes

[Monty]

Just now, coastal.view said:

and did not deal with the content of my post

Welcome to the Internet and social media  

[riffraff]

Just now, coastal.view said:

well you are free to live how you wish

 

but i do note this is the second time you have responded to one of my posts

and did not deal with the content of my post

 

but simply just said something neutral so you could continue down your present path and narrative

that provides thin value to me

so i'm not spending more energy on this discussion

Sorry i don’t Mean too.  I’ve been responded too and also have responded quite a bit.  So feel free to ask me anything again and I will take the time to deal with your content 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Pre existing conditions relative to confirmed infections and confirmed deaths.

 

pre existing environmental conditions for those living in Italian cities.

So? They're people, they have families.  Pre-existing conditions make their lives less valuable?  Can you provide a list of family and friends with pre-existing conditions you're willing to sacrifice?

[riffraff]

Just now, stawns said:

So? They're people, they have families.  Pre-existing conditions make their lives less valuable?  Can you provide a list of family and friends with pre-existing conditions you're willing to sacrifice?

Wth you talking about?

 

ye I’m a heartless island of a humanity.

Edited April 4, 2020 by riffraff

[-DLC-]

 

12 minutes ago, riffraff said:

i admit the level would help would be different relative to a family member vs a total stranger.

 

 

 

It is honest, and I thank you.

 

But this part has me wanting to question why if this deal isn't worrisome enough to have measures in place that limit freedoms in order to prevent transmission?