Coronavirus outbreak

[guntrix]

7 hours ago, gurn said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6812669/viral-video-gathering-coronavirus/

 

"

A dozen or so protesters in Vancouver calling for an end to physical-distancing restrictions are “attempting to promote themselves” and represent “marginal views,” B.C.’s health minister says.

Adrian Dix was responding to a viral video showing a group of about 12 to 15 people gathering closely together on a Vancouver street over the weekend in an attempt to protest public health orders to stem the spread of COVID-19.

The video was posted on Sunday and had been viewed more than 2.9 million times by Tuesday morning.

A vast majority of British Columbians are following the rules, Dix said, calling the video an example of a few people seeking attention."

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/297059/Protesters-at-Vernon-City-Hall-call-for-no-COVID-19-lockdowns

A group of frustrated individuals gathered at Vernon City Hall Sunday to protest the measures taken to slow the spread of COVID-19, and to voice their concerns over the effects those efforts are having on our economy.

"Make sure we stand six feet apart — not that we need to, because this virus is a hoax," said one of the protesters named Chris, who refused to disclose his last name. "But if I want to hug someone, I'm going to give them a hug."

The protesters did respect the physical distancing measures, as police did a walk-by early on in the gathering. The group discussed whether or not COVID-19 numbers were being inflated, the validity of COVID-related reporting and how the health measures were impacting their everyday lives.

"Waiting in lines outside of stores is not normal — we don't want it anymore, and it needs to stop," said Sylvia Herchen, a physiotherapist who had to shut down her operation due to the pandemic. "Rational thinkers would think quarantine is when you restrict the movement of sick people — tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people."

The protesters questioned the credibility of Dr. Anthony Fauci, the United States' top infectious disease expert, but did not mention Dr. Bonnie Henry, B.C.'s provincial health officer.

"Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai says that the HIV hype was manufactured by Dr. Fauci, who is now instrumental in telling President Trump what to do," said Herchen, referencing a Republican senate candidate who erroneously claims HIV does not cause AIDS. "It's just creating fear."

Toward the end of the gathering, the protesters discussed solutions to the problem at hand.

"There's really two solutions here," said Chris. "Create the narrative by spreading the truth, and manifesting peace, love and freedom."

The group plans to meet at least every week.

Health officials in B.C. are currently urging the public to not let their guard down and continue social distancing. Hospitalizations and new COVID-19 case counts have remained stable for the past 10 days, something doctors say is thanks to current social distancing efforts. 

“We are not over the hump yet, and we are going to have a bumpy road for a while,” Dr. Henry said Thursday. “We are holding our own, and we are keeping it down, but we all need to continue to do this. Going into this long weekend, it's more important than ever that we keep going, that everything we are doing now, we keep up.”

British Columbia's total number of confirmed coronavirus cases now stands at 1,445, including 58 deaths.

"12 to 15 people"... Come on now, does that even count?

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Ouch that sucks. From an outsider it seems like a lot of BC's problems are institution based.

These are always the places it was going to hit hard first.

[Dungass]

12 hours ago, Kragar said:

Too many CDC names to tag here, but this is for all of you freaking out over Trump's (and others') comments about using UV light and disinfectant internally.

 

Does any of you understand the concept of innovation?  Spit-balling ideas, including some really hair-brained ones, in the hope that something useful comes from it.

 

I'd be curious how all of you would have felt if he were to ever propose the potential benefits of injecting mustard gas or other poisons to attack the virus.  Hardly sounds safe or sound, does it?

 

I only raise it up because deliberate injection of mustard gases were the first attempts at chemotherapy.

I've long made a point of trying to understand how Trump won the 2016 election, a person who was so manifestly unfit, and in over his head for the office of president.  His crass narcissism, inability to admit any mistake or misstep, penchant for gross hyperbole, lack of any sort of understanding and even basic preparedness in dealing with most aspects of public policy should have made him a non-viable candidate.  Yet he won.  So here's what I learned:  politics trumps personality. 

 

Despite his severe limitations, he also did things which no other politician on the right had been able to do.  He won over important sections of the working class AND renounced US foreign interventionism.  Trump defends and is the standard bearer of a unique brand of conservatism in the US, a kind of right-wing populism seen in Europe.  His supporters are willing to look past his shameful and embarrassing behaviour because of the policies that he champions.

 

 But here's the rub: in the world of Covid-19 politicians are being judged by their ability to defend public, regardless of politics.  It's why Trudeau, Legault, Ford, Horgan, etc. all have sky high approval ratings, despite their vast idealogical differences.  They're seen as looking out for their citizens best interest.  On the other hand, politicians who haven't been viewed as responsive are not doing as well in polling, such as Boris Johnson or Shinzo Abe.

 

Trump has been presented a chance to lead, as all leaders have.  Yet he continues his shameful behaviour.  And it is shameful.  Why on Earth do his supporters think it is a good idea to regularly publicly over-ride and contradict the country's top health experts?  Is there a single, other country in the world where this is happening?  Why on Earth would it be a good idea to hold daily two hour press conferences where he boasts about how wonderful and super and fantastic everything he does is, and run campaign advertisements?  Why on Earth is he encouraging people congregating in large public gatherings, deliberately not social distancing or wearing masks.  IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.

 

So yes, the United States is proving its exceptionalism after all in this crisis.  It is proving that politics trumps personality.  

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Dungass

[-SN-]

1 minute ago, Kanukfanatic said:

So that father in Victoria that killed his two little girls "deserves dignity and a safe living environment"?

 

Yeah...agree to disagree. The death penalty is what he deserves.

Maybe take a step back here. This isn't the place to be discussing your preference for who gets a disease, or your preference for who deserves to die. 

[Kanukfanatic]

1 minute ago, StealthNuck said:

Maybe take a step back here. This isn't the place to be discussing your preference for who gets a disease, or your preference for who deserves to die. 

I will go read the rules again for the thread. They seem to change.

[-DLC-]

11 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Except it's not that simple. It's painfully irresponsible to flatly compare Vancouver to other cities like NYC and Milan and throw context out the window. Some cities, due to their geographical location and population density were always going to have it worse from the get-go. 

 

For example, the Greater Vancouver area has a population of 2.5 million and is pretty spread out. This is not comparable to the 8.4 million densely populated population in NYC, not even taking into account bordering New Jersey, which is also a hot spot. 

 

The closest city to Vancouver is Seattle which requires an international border crossing and 2.5 hours by car. This is much more isolated than large cities in the Schengen area. 

 

Again, many of the properties that make Vancouver what it is have helped to stagnate the spread of the virus. It's not because Vancouver found the magic solution. 

The magic solution is social distancing...not to cure or beat this thing, but to contain it so that it's manageable in the health care system(s).  Those places were overwhelmed and flooded so we're taking measures to protect against that.  The more that people that follow the guidelines, the slower this thing spreads.

 

It is simple.

[kingofsurrey]

9 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

So that father in Victoria that killed his two little girls "deserves dignity and a safe living environment"?

 

Yeah...agree to disagree. The death penalty is what he deserves.

I don't support death penalty. Only barbaric country's use a death penalty.

 

[samurai]

3 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Except it's not that simple. It's painfully irresponsible to flatly compare Vancouver to other cities like NYC and Milan and throw context out the window. Some cities, due to their geographical location and population density were always going to have it worse from the get-go. 

 

For example, the Greater Vancouver area has a population of 2.5 million and is pretty spread out. This is not comparable to the 8.4 million densely populated population in NYC, not even taking into account bordering New Jersey, which is also a hot spot. 

 

The closest city to Vancouver is Seattle which requires an international border crossing and 2.5 hours by car. This is much more isolated than large cities in the Schengen area. 

 

Again, many of the properties that make Vancouver what it is have helped to stagnate the spread of the virus. It's not because Vancouver found the magic solution. 

Exactly

 

Over half of the deaths in the US come from a NY to Jersey slice.  I say slice because it isn't all the hospitals.   It is well documented now that hospitals that got rocked had large elderly populations, and or were in poorer areas (e.g. Queens).   These hospitals are always maxed out at flu season and what saves them from the chaos they had now is a fu vaccine.  Everyone in those hospitals including the healthcare workers got infected - again no vaccine. And so those hospital turned into huge virus spreaders before anyone could figure it out.  Context is critical to understanding what happened in Spain, Italy and NY.  14,000 health care workers in Northern Italy were infected and of course in the early stages they were infecting as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

True and true. 

 

And like @DeNirosaid just after you, social distancing and proper hygiene are going to be super important as we slowly reopen from isolating.  As testing gets better and ramped up that will help people make good decisions too.  I just hope those around the Lower Mainland treat the measures we need to maintain (social distancing etc) better than we do driving in the snow...we do great for the first day and then patience slowly wears away and people get less careful. 

 

I know in my townhouse complex, the driveway gatherings are getting closer and closer while the neighbourhood kids have been mingling closely for a couple weeks now.  That's not a disaster while everyone in the complex is pretty much self isolating, it's almost like an island.  But I hope they realize as things reopen all it's takes is one person to get it and whammo, it'll be everywhere.

 

Like you said at the start, this virus will be around for a while so we can't let our guard down as we slowly restart our lives next month and beyond.

 

people aren't doing that now, what makes anyone think it'll be different going forward?  This is far, far from managed in the long run so we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back too much.

Edited April 25, 2020 by stawns

[stawns]

Just now, samurai said:

Exactly

 

Over half of the deaths in the US come from a NY to Jersey slice.  I say slice because it isn't all the hospitals.   It is well documented now that hospitals that got rocked had large elderly populations, and or were in poorer areas (e.g. Queens).   These hospitals are always maxed out at flu season and what saves them from the chaos they had now is a fu vaccine.  Everyone in those hospitals including the healthcare workers got infected - again no vaccine. And so those hospital turned into huge virus spreaders before anyone could figure it out.  Context is critical to understanding what happened in Spain, Italy and NY.  14,000 health care workers in Northern Italy were infected and of course in the early stages they were infecting as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

and that's exactly how experts said the first wave would go before it slowly starts to spread outward to more rural communities.  

[Me_]

[samurai]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

and that's exactly how experts said the first wave would go before it slowly starts to spread outward to more rural communities.  

the virus origins in the US has multiple points.  It arrived on planes. 

[guntrix]

9 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

The magic solution is social distancing...not to cure or beat this thing, but to contain it so that it's manageable in the health care system(s).  Those places were overwhelmed and flooded so we're taking measures to protect against that.  The more that people that follow the guidelines, the slower this thing spreads.

 

It is simple.

Think about it this way, Vancouverites could have technically been adhering to the 2 meter social distancing guidelines even before the pandemic. The city is able to afford you that kind of lifestyle. 

 

For other cities it’s not that simple. People social distance but there are other factors at play. Saying otherwise is quite frankly obtuse. 

[bree2]

27 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

I prefer seeing locked up criminals getting covid than hard working, tax paying citizens.

stop with the garbage!

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Think about it this way, Vancouverites could have technically been adhering to the 2 meter social distancing guidelines even before the pandemic. The city is able to afford you that kind of lifestyle. 

 

For other cities it’s not that simple. People social distance but there are other factors at play. Saying otherwise is quite frankly obtuse. 

Not really. 

 

Go to the Seawall on a sunny day and tell me it's easy to social distance.  A Starbucks.

 

Yes, some places it's more difficult..but it isn't just a done deal in a city like Vancouver either.  You're at the mercy of those around you and how cooperative they are.  Some almost seem to go out of their way to get in someone else's.  Bike riders.  Joggers.  Even in Richmond..go to the dyke path and see that, at times, you have to stop, move aside and LET people pass in order to observe social distancing.

 

I get it, NY and Milan are incredibly crowded.  But not matter where you are personal space isn't always a given.

 

Not sure what the point of your argument is?  Could you clarify what it is you're trying to get at with it?  Being irresponsible is going against the grain of what health officials are recommending.  That's been my point mostly.  Not sure what there is to argue there?

[-DLC-]

30 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Except it's not that simple. It's painfully irresponsible to flatly compare Vancouver to other cities like NYC and Milan and throw context out the window.

Quote

guntrix replied to CBH1926's topic in Off-Topic General

Central Park is NY’s Kits Beach. No longer feel safe going for a run here.

Hmmm, you compared them back in March?

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, samurai said:

the virus origins in the US has multiple points.  It arrived on planes. 

yet its spreading the way it was projected to spread in the first wave.

[bishopshodan]

This thing should have been figured out by now, by the immense knowledge in this thread alone.

 

Lots of folk seem to think they know, but I'm not sure anyone could know? as we all know, that we know that we haven't known this specific coronavirus before. 

 

[guntrix]

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

Hmmm, you compared them back in March?

Yes, because shortly before that post someone uploaded a picture of a lot of people congregating at Kits. Though I'd be stretched to compare the cities in the slightest. 

 

6 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Not really. 

 

Go to the Seawall on a sunny day and tell me it's easy to social distance.  A Starbucks.

 

Yes, some places it's more difficult..but it isn't just a done deal in a city like Vancouver either.  You're at the mercy of those around you and how cooperative they are.  Some almost seem to go out of their way to get in someone else's.  Bike riders.  Joggers.  Even in Richmond..go to the dyke path and see that, at times, you have to stop, move aside and LET people pass in order to observe social distancing.

 

I get it, NY and Milan are incredibly crowded.  But not matter where you are personal space isn't always a given.

 

Not sure what the point of your argument is?  Could you clarify what it is you're trying to get at with it?  Being irresponsible is going against the grain of what health officials are recommending.  That's been my point mostly.  Not sure what there is to argue there?

Yeah, I think we're micro-arguing here. I believe it started where you disagreed with the initial post saying the Vancouver/BC has it much better off than other places. Then the conversation spiraled. 

[samurai]

6 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Think about it this way, Vancouverites could have technically been adhering to the 2 meter social distancing guidelines even before the pandemic. The city is able to afford you that kind of lifestyle. 

 

For other cities it’s not that simple. People social distance but there are other factors at play. Saying otherwise is quite frankly obtuse. 

the data on the effectiveness of social distancing is scant.   At the moment you see countries that have contained the virus for now and have put into practice very different social distancing measures and practices. 

 

To say social distancing works is an over generalization because it entails a lot of different practices and none have been seriously studied or assessed.  For example, schools have been shutdown in some places but not others,  and this hasn't impacted infection rates or deaths.  One study suggests that closing school may have reduced infection by 2%.