Coronavirus outbreak

[kingofsurrey]

47 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

This grade 2 thing is far worse than -45 out on a drilling rig. There is every device possible in the house and it's near impossible to get kids to focus and do schooling. I've spoken with many others saying the same thing. I'm not advocating for schools to open up early but my god teachers are underpaid. 

BC is a province that does not appreciate public education.  Look how teachers are treated/ paid in BC ( worst paid in Canada )

 

 Covid experience of parents working with their kids will probably show parents that the job has challenges.

Imagine 22 kids just like yours in a room with you all day......   your job is get them all engaged and learning.....  LOL 

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

BC is a province that does not appreciate public education.  Look how teachers are treated/ paid in BC ( worst paid in Canada )

 

 Covid experience of parents working with their kids will probably show parents that the job has challenges.

Imagine 22 kids just like yours in a room with you all day......   your job is get them all engaged and learning.....  LOL 

 

I would be dead of alcohol poisoning. 

[stawns]

40 minutes ago, gurn said:

Story on Sweden, and the deaths occurring in old folks homes/lodges

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/what-s-going-wrong-in-sweden-s-care-homes/ar-BB14io8l?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

 

More than half of elderly Covid-19 victims in Sweden have died in care homes. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

Lili Perspolisi's father, Reza Sedghi, was not seen by a doctor on the day he died from coronavirus, at his care home in northern Stockholm.

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A nurse told her he'd had a morphine shot in the hours before he passed away, but he was not given oxygen, nor did staff call an ambulance. "No-one was there and he died alone," says Ms Perspolisi. "It's so unfair."

Most of the 3,698 people who have died from coronavirus in Sweden so far were over 70, despite the fact that the country said shielding risk groups was its top priority.

Sweden, with 10m inhabitants, has kept more of society open than is the case in most of Europe.

"We did not manage to protect the most vulnerable people, the most elderly, despite our best intentions," Prime Minister Stefan Löfven admitted last week.

Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19.

Now, increasing numbers of workers are also coming forward to criticise regional healthcare authorities for protocols which they say discourage care home workers from sending residents into hospital, and prevent care home and nursing staff from administering oxygen without a doctor's approval, either as part of acute or palliative (end-of-life) services.

'We were told not to send them in'

"They told us that we shouldn't send anyone to the hospital, even if they may be 65 and have many years to live. We were told not to send them in," says Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse who worked in several care homes around Gävle, north of Stockholm, at the beginning of the pandemic.

"Some can have a lot of years left to live with loved ones, but they don't have the chance... because they never make it to the hospital," she says. "They suffocate to death. And it's a lot of panic and it's very hard to just stand by and watch."

Ms Löfvenberg is now working on a Covid-19 ward in a major hospital in the Swedish capital, where she says the demographic of patients she's treating is further evidence that the elderly are being kept away. "We don't have many older people. It's a lot of younger people born in the 90s, 80s, 70s."

A paramedic working in Stockholm, who wanted to remain anonymous, told the BBC she had not had a single call-out to an elderly care home connected to Covid-19, despite putting in overtime during the crisis.

Mikael Fjällid, a Swedish private consultant in anaesthetics and intensive care, says he believes "a lot of lives" could have been saved if more patients had been able to access hospital treatment, or if care home workers were given increased responsibilities to administer oxygen themselves, instead of waiting for specialist Covid-19 response teams or paramedics.

"If you need care and you can benefit [from] care, for example, or oxygen for a short time, you should have it. Like any other age group in the population," he says.

"If you have more than 20% that survive without nothing, you could assume that also perhaps the same amount or the same proportion would have survived with supplemental oxygen."

National guidelines

Decisions about healthcare staffing and resources are taken at a regional level in Sweden, although national guidelines suggest that elderly patients, whether in state or privately run care homes, should not automatically be taken to hospital for treatment.

Dr Thomas Linden, Chief Medical Officer at the National Board of Health and Welfare, says workers should "professionally weigh the potential benefits" against risk factors such as catching the virus in hospital and the "costs" of transporting patients, including the likelihood of disorientation and discomfort.

Healthcare workers are asked not to discriminate on age alone, he says, although biological age may be relevant in combination with other factors.

When it comes to providing palliative care, it is not mandatory to give patients oxygen, and Dr Linden admits "the opinions on the value of oxygen is divided between specialities and regions".

Gävleborg, the region where Latifa Löfvenberg worked at the start of the pandemic, says individual patients' needs are always put first and that nurses can call doctors to make assessments about the need for hospital care.

It is against the idea of care-home workers administering oxygen during palliative care, because it requires specialist training.

Christoffer Bernsköld, a spokesperson for geriatric care for Region Stockholm, insists there are enough resources to ensure patients in the capital get acute or palliative care, with a focus on "specialist homecare units" providing help in the first instance.

He points to a new, unused, military field hospital in southern Stockholm as proof that the elderly are not being held back from treatment because of a lack of beds.

But he says it can be an "ethical dilemma" whether to administer oxygen or transfer patients to hospital.

Critics like Mikael Fjällid see that field hospital as a sign that officials in the capital have been cautious about hospitalising the elderly because they fear overstretching resources, which would be needed to cope with a future spike in cases.

How do other countries prioritise patients?

Sweden is not alone in asking healthcare workers to consider the fragility of patients when deciding whether or not to send them to hospital.

But representatives of care homes in other parts of Europe have told the BBC they do not share Swedish critics' concerns about a lack of access to treatment.

In the UK, the National Care Association says it believes care has been available for Covid-19 patients "no matter how old or sick" they are.

The Association of German Aid for the Elderly and Disabled says every patient with coronavirus symptoms is seen by a doctor and there hasn't been a single patient who has not received the care they needed. In some cases, entire care homes have been moved into hospitals. Many homes also keep emergency oxygen on site.

The Danish Nurses Association says that all patients in need of oxygen are currently sent to hospital. This could be reviewed if there is a shortage of ventilators, although age would not affect future guidelines.

Shame on them for their cavalier approach.

[stawns]

33 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you can't let fear drive your decision making. 

Irrational fear, sure.  Like not going out because there "might" be a crazed incel gun man out there.  Having a healthy fear of a deadly pandemic is, well, healthy and rational.

[wloutet]

9 hours ago, Me_ said:

Young kids learn more on mobile units. Mobile units should be supplied if the kid’s family can’t supply it, as well as a place to go for the kids who need such a program as institutionalized education. 
 

This is not to take away from teachers. They can also be better served than current and recent times by a reprogramming of the delivery system that is the tutor/pupil relationship.

 

In this age of extreme freedom in information consumption, our kids at 13 have already been around the world, played every space, talked to everyone and done everything.

Have you ever tried working in a class with students who are learning on line. only about 1 in 5 are successful (at this time). Most will switch to a game or text as soon as they are not being observed. It is great in theory, and maybe it will be the future. But for me, and the 55 years of studying my subject post high school, I have no input into their learning, it is just someone else doing the bare minimum. In the future, maybe, at this time, a disaster. Then try, as I did, with 50 kids in two classes, doing online learning, all over the school, in 6 different grade 10, 11 and 12 Math courses. 

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

Irrational fear, sure.  Like not going out because there "might" be a crazed incel gun man out there.  Having a healthy fear of a deadly pandemic is, well, healthy and rational.

not sure what you're supporting here.... you think Trump made the right call? 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not sure what you're supporting here.... you think Trump made the right call? 

 

I guess I took it out of context.  I meant the people who are saying "stay home if you're afraid, I'm going out to live my life" etc.

[JM_]

Just now, stawns said:

 

I guess I took it out of context.  I meant the people who are saying "stay home if you're afraid, I'm going out to live my life" etc.

well put me back in context, mister 

 

What Trump did was poop the bed in fear and take a dangerous drug thats been proven in several studies around the world to be ineffective at best, deadly at worst. Thats operating from fear. 

 

I think it could be a big mistake for him. It really erodes the image of a "strong" leader that he's been trying to groom. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well put me back in context, mister 

 

What Trump did was poop the bed in fear and take a dangerous drug thats been proven in several studies around the world to be ineffective at best, deadly at worst. Thats operating from fear. 

 

I think it could be a big mistake for him. It really erodes the image of a "strong" leader that he's been trying to groom. 

I agree completely.  I hope it f****** kills him

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

I agree completely.  I hope it f****** kills him

he's probably lying about it. 

[Pears]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

he's probably lying about it. 

Oh there’s no question he’s lying about it. But, if his supporters truly are stupid beyond belief and think if their leader can take it they can take it, and it wipes a good chunk of them out I won’t be complaining. 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

he's probably lying about it. 

that is his defeault setting

[JM_]

Just now, Pears said:

Oh there’s no question he’s lying about it. But, if his supporters truly are stupid beyond belief and think if their leader can take it they can take it, and it wipes a good chunk of them out I won’t be complaining. 

why wouldn't they? If you get dressed up and go to Trump rallies why not give it a try? 

[Pears]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

why wouldn't they? If you get dressed up and go to Trump rallies why not give it a try? 

 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

why wouldn't they? If you get dressed up and go to Trump rallies why not give it a try? 

[BPA]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

Kids definitely do not learn more on devices.  Devices are a tool like anything else.  The distance learning has been a good interim filler, but I think everyone agrees it's no substitute for school

Yep.

 

I have to constantly tell my kids to do their homework.  To not surf the internet.  The young son listens well but the older daughter is starting her rebellious side.   But its the young one that keeps asking me questions regarding homework.  I'm like a part time teacher now.  Makes it  difficult to get work done at home.  Often I work late into the evening cuz I get more work done after the kids homework is finished for the day.

 

If online schooling will be the future...I can see teaching jobs to be cut (at least in half).  Cuz right now, it's just assignments, projects, and online programs.  Some occasional feedback on draft reports.

[BPA]

55 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I would be dead of alcohol poisoning. 

I'm already half way there.

 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, BPA said:

Yep.

 

I have to constantly tell my kids to do their homework.  To not surf the internet.  The young son listens well but the older daughter is starting her rebellious side.   But its the young one that keeps asking me questions regarding homework.  I'm like a part time teacher now.  Makes it  difficult to get work done at home.  Often I work late into the evening cuz I get more work done after the kids homework is finished for the day.

 

If online schooling will be the future...I can see teaching jobs to be cut (at least in half).  Cuz right now, it's just assignments, projects, and online programs.  Some occasional feedback on draft reports.

i don't see that being even remotely the case.  Content isn't even the focus of schools anymore, for better or worse.

[kingofsurrey]

It looks like most provinces have decided to keep students and schools staff safe.

Why do most provinces see it as not SAFE ... yet BC is willing to roll the dice....

 

Coincidence that 2 provinces in Canada that pay the teachers the least.... both send them back into a pandemic without PPE.

#Broken BC.

 

Shame on Horgan and Dr. Bonnie who are putting lives at risk for 8 days of  modified...... elementary school in June .

 

Patti Bacchus

22m

 

Ontario schools will stay closed until the end of the school year #BCed https://apple.news/ADys5qqm_Sq-kGZJ_iwx40A… #bced

Edited May 19, 2020 by kingofsurrey

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

It looks like most provinces have decided to keep students and schools staff safe.

Why do most provinces see it as not SAFE ... yet BC is willing to roll the dice....

 

Shame on Horgan and Dr. Bonnie who are putting lives at risk for 8 days of  modified...... elementary school in June .

 

Patti Bacchus

22m

 

Ontario schools will stay closed until the end of the school year #BCed https://apple.news/ADys5qqm_Sq-kGZJ_iwx40A… #bced

Well to be fair, BC (5M) does not have the same population as Ontario (14.4M) and not nearly as dense as some cities (like Toronto).  A better comparison would be AB (4.3M).