Coronavirus outbreak

[Fanuck]

Why is is possible for ON to keep kids safe, schools closed, and still begin to re-open the economy at the same time yet our province doesn't think the two are both possible? 

 

Quote

 

“One thing I will never do is take unnecessary risk when it comes to our children,” Premier Doug Ford said Tuesday.

The school announcement comes as Ontario began to reopen parts of its economy on Tuesday, resuming all construction, restarting scheduled surgeries and allowing retail stores outside of malls to open with physical distancing guidelines. Golf courses and marinas were allowed to open as of Saturday.

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-to-keep-all-schools-closed-through-the-end-of-june/?utm_medium=Referrer:+Social+Network+/+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

[Petey40]

3 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Ahh fair enough, thanks for sharing it's actually very helpful in my argument about fear mongering.

 

My god were they ever wrong 

I mean weren’t those were projections based on the worst case scenario and based on the province doing nothing?So it is possible that could have happened without the major steps taken toward mitigating the spread of this virus. Isn't it better to er on the side of caution with a novel virus that you have no vaccine or treatment for? Better to project high and get the public to listen and realize the severity than to downplay. 
 

If they didn’t show the worst possible outcomes the public may not have been as receptive and we could be in the same scenario that the US is in with their downplaying and the public thinking it’s not a big deal. It’s not necessarily fear mongering and more a show to the public the danger of this virus. 
 

Why is it so hard to believe those projections are a possibility? It’s happening around the world and we still have people thinking “That can’t happen here”.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Petey40

[Hectic]

On 5/18/2020 at 10:48 AM, The 5th Line said:

I don't have the answer to that question but I do know that a large percentage of people who have died had underlying health issues prior.  It's not healthy people that are dying

 

 

So if over 2000 cases and 0 deaths isn't good enough sample size, when will we know it is safe enough?    We can't test enough people for these larger sample sizes if everyone is just sitting at home doing nothing.  

 

The one place we really needed to protect was the nursing homes and we pretty much failed in that regard.  4\5 deaths in Canada have occurred in people living in care homes, so our numbers are pretty much as bad as they can get in terms of death rates.  Sorry if you saw this already but as of right now in B.C.  1 in every 33,000 people become infected and die from covid and there's a 96% chance that person is over the age of 60 and a 70% chance they are over the age of 80.   That's an extremely low number for total and complete shutdown don't you think?  

 

I live in Campbell River, population about 35,000 so it's like if I removed one person from my town due to covid.  Yeah that sucks, it's unfortunate, but come on, how much longer will this go?  

 

 

I've agreed with a lot of your points today, and am also on the Island, but that's a pretty flawed way to say things are as bad as they can get. 4/5 deaths are in LTC facilities.. what would you expect with a disease like this? That makes it sound way worse than it is when you say it with that sort of context. It would definitely be expected for deaths to be higher in the most susceptible patient population, and with a death rate already so low, this type of reporting is how things get blown even more out of proportion. 

[stawns]

11 minutes ago, BPA said:

Not sure what the protocol is for schools but I would hope/think kids would not be sent to school if someone in the household has confirmed Covid-19.  As most likely anyone in that household would surely be affected.  A bit different if you may have come in contact with someone with confirmed case of Covid-19 but don't live with them.  Then it's self monitoring instead of self isolation (from the date of contact).

Well, about a quarter of our kids show up everyday without food and water, so I'm not too hopeful on them not showing up sick 

[Petey40]

2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

No those were probable outcomes, and then they had a third outcome which was "worst case scenario" 

 

Yes that's right, they predicted 800,000 infections by mid-may and instead they have 6700

They also said in that address

 

“Those numbers are not inevitable. How this actually plays out, how many people are infected, how many die, whether we overwhelm our health care system, all of that depends on us and our choices,” said Kenney.

 

If they said we’ll have 7,000 infections by mid May and a couple hundred deaths do you think anyone would have taken this virus seriously? 6,700 seems like a win because of the measures put in place. 

[bree2]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

I guess that is what Premier Horgan has decided...yes the economy is a must.

 

Kids don't go to school in summer and parents will have to find a way to deal with that.  Summer camps may be open by then in a much smaller capacity.  I don't know.  But like I said, some parents are already feeling the pinch.  And Canada debt continues to grow as they hand out cheques to stop the bleeding of the recession/unemployment/etc.

 

I don't care for Horgan at all.  yes Canada's debt continues to grow, same with the rest of the world.  putting kids back in School for such a short time is not going to erase  the debt.  

[BPA]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Well, about a quarter of our kids show up everyday without food and water, so I'm not too hopeful on them not showing up sick 

WTF??

 

I blame the parents.

[coho8888]

16 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

So what exactly is the bad news here?  People are dying in Sweden?  Yeah it's horrible but they are dying everywhere, particularly in western Europe.  

 

So Sweden's strategy of relaxed isolation protocol is the wrong one because people are still dying but they've kept their economy afloat.  The countries with the most deaths per million people have all followed  strict lockdown guidelines and their economies are going in to the toilet and that decision is the right one? 

 

Why aren't you looking at the worst hit countries and saying their strict lockdown isn't working?  But you'll look at Sweden and say what they are doing isn't working? 

 

I think the point to be made here is that even Sweden, with its greater adherence to government recommendations has a higher death rate than the other Scandinavian countries, what do you think would happen if they applied it to the US?

 

Not good I would say.

 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

WTF??

 

I blame the parents.

That's the reality.  I give my lunch away at least twice a week

[bree2]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

WTF??

 

I blame the parents.

some cannot afford to feed their kids, that is why during regular times they had lunch programs and some Schools sent home back packs of food on the weekends.  we all know the food banks does not give enough to feed a family  for more that a week

[CBH1926]

22 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

So what exactly is the bad news here?  People are dying in Sweden?  Yeah it's horrible but they are dying everywhere, particularly in western Europe.  

 

So Sweden's strategy of relaxed isolation protocol is the wrong one because people are still dying but they've kept their economy afloat.  The countries with the most deaths per million people have all followed  strict lockdown guidelines and their economies are going in to the toilet and that decision is the right one? 

 

Why aren't you looking at the worst hit countries and saying their strict lockdown isn't working?  But you'll look at Sweden and say what they are doing isn't working? 

 

I hate to tell you, but once all the other economies tank so will theirs.

Since we have connected economies in the 21st century.
This approach would have worked in the 18th and 19th century.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

26 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

So what exactly is the bad news here?  People are dying in Sweden?  Yeah it's horrible but they are dying everywhere, particularly in western Europe.  

 

So Sweden's strategy of relaxed isolation protocol is the wrong one because people are still dying but they've kept their economy afloat.  The countries with the most deaths per million people have all followed  strict lockdown guidelines and their economies are going in to the toilet and that decision is the right one? 

 

Why aren't you looking at the worst hit countries and saying their strict lockdown isn't working?  But you'll look at Sweden and say what they are doing isn't working? 

 

You do realize that the lockdowns in those countries occurred after the outbreak, yes?

[BPA]

3 minutes ago, bree2 said:

I don't care for Horgan at all.  yes Canada's debt continues to grow, same with the rest of the world.  putting kids back in School for such a short time is not going to erase  the debt.  

This is the solution that our elected Premier has decided with consultation from Dr. Bonnie.

 

I understand that not everyone will be happy.  But it would be ludicrous to think that we can have 1 plan that everyone (BC resident) would agree on.  So the proposed plan is what they have come up with.  And if you do not agree, then don't send your children (or grandchildren in your case) to school.  It is optional/voluntary.

 

And then come next election, you can vote Horgan out.

 

 

[CBH1926]

1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

If you can provide something I can read, that'd be great. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-economy-likely-wont-benefit-from-decision-avoid-lockdown-report-2020-5

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sweden-has-avoided-a-coronavirus-lockdown-its-economy-is-hurting-anyway-11588870062

 

https://www.ft.com/content/93105160-dcb4-4721-9e58-a7b262cd4b6e

[coho8888]

9 minutes ago, BPA said:

WTF??

 

I blame the parents.

The stories that one teacher told me about working in one of the Surrey schools is very eye opening.

 

[Petey40]

5 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

They were off by over 790,000!   Dude, that is fear mongering.  Don't give me that.  That is making people do whatever the hell you want if you tell them a million people are going to get sick if they don't listen 

Sure it may have been fear mongering but that doesn’t mean it was intentional. 
 

That’s the thing about a novel virus, projections are bound to be wrong because they don’t know anything about it. The US also predicted 2.2 million deaths, thats 2.1 million more than what they are at right now. In your opinion what does Alberta gain by fear mongering the public into listening? 

[Petey40]

8 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

Sure it may have been fear mongering but that doesn’t mean it was intentional. 
 

That’s the thing about a novel virus, projections are bound to be wrong because they don’t know anything about it. The US also predicted 2.2 million deaths, thats 2.1 million more than what they are at right now. In your opinion what does Alberta gain by fear mongering the public into listening? 

Oops double post.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Petey40

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

Sure it may have been fear mongering but that doesn’t mean it was intentional. 
 

That’s the thing about a novel virus, projections are bound to be wrong because they don’t know anything about it. The US also predicted 2.2 million deaths, thats 2.1 million more than what they are at right now. In your opinion what does Alberta gain by fear mongering the public into listening? 

there's a good chance they hit a million sometime early in 2021

[Petey40]

2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Intentional or not those type of predictions are what causes  mass panic and fear.  Unhealthy fear. If they don't know enough, maybe they shouldn't put those predictions out in the first place.  That's my opinion 

 

 

Okay fair enough, so the government’s don’t release any projections because of their lack of understanding of this virus. So how do you get the public to listen to a lockdown? How do you make the public understand it’s necessary and not start revolting and protesting without projections and showing the public probable/possible outcomes?

[Petey40]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

there's a good chance they hit a million sometime early in 2021

That’s still off by 1.2 million and it’s because they’re really dumb lol