Coronavirus outbreak

[Canada Hockey Place]

Dr. Theresa Tam provided the updated advice during her daily news conference in Ottawa today.

 

"For the spring and summer months, strict adherence to the public health basics of physical distancing, handwashing and cough etiquette must continue as the bare minimum," she said.  

"In addition, where COVID-19 activity is occurring, use of non-medical masks or face coverings is recommended as an added layer of protection when physical distancing is difficult to maintain. And staying home when sick is a must, always and everywhere."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/masks-covid-19-pandemic-public-health-1.5576895

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

32 minutes ago, RonMexico said:

 

Makes sense for the UK due to the size of the outbreak. Canada is a much different scenario. Just like the provinces all having different approaches, all countries will have different approaches. It doesn't make any of them wrong, just different based on the data they have.

Reward. Risk vs. reward as a term in and of itself is pretty self explanatory. Essentially, it is a term that reminds investors to consider the risks of investments made, compare those risks to the potential rewards associated with those investments, and make an educated decision based on this knowledge.

 

Reward of opening schools - kids get up to 8 days of working on online materials in a classroom. Kids 2 metres apart. Lunch at their desk by themelves.  Don't touch anything around the classroom....  Also, i would not recommend you sitting next to Billy... his brother has active Covid  but Bill seems to be OK from what i as a teacher can see.....

 

Risk -  death of their grandparents / elderly neighbours. Parents if they have a compromised immune system.

 

 

 

Well - i just do NOT see the reward  being worth the risks.  Without PPE in place... it is just insanity. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by kingofsurrey

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Except doctors and nurses who are wearing masks are still getting it, so no it does not guarantee anything.

 

Reducing your exposure to areas where the virus might be is the only sure measure.

isn't the mask to prevent spreading as opposed to reduce the chance of getting it?

 

agreed that reducing exposure is the best method

[Me_]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Except doctors and nurses who are wearing masks are still getting it, so no it does not guarantee anything.

 

Reducing your exposure to areas where the virus might be is the only sure measure.

There’s a difference between the general population wearing masks for general functions of life, and being a nurse on a 12 hour shift in a Covid-19 ICU, taking care of 10 Covid-19 patients, until they either die or recover.

Maybe I’m mistaken...

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Me_

[lmm]

44 minutes ago, stawns said:

Let's put aside the risk factor and focus on the details.

 

First and foremost, teachers are still working full days (and more) through distance learning, so where are these planning/prep hours going to come from?  

 

My district isn't even polling parents to see who is returning until May 22, so we won't even know who is coming back until later next week.  You can't plan until you know who is back.

 

We have no idea which students are going to be there or what their individual needs are going to be.  My guess is the most at risk, high needs students will be the most likely to return.  They are also the hardest students to keep focused and under control.  What's our strategy for trying to keep these kids apart and focused through this when they can't do it in normal circumstances?  What's the protocol for when they don't comply?  What's the protocol for multiple students not complying all at once?  We only have one full time administrator and one part-part time for a school of 500 kids.  

 

There's going to have to be a bathroom schedule and though that might not seem like much, that's going to be very complicated.  Again, not something that can really be done until we know which kids are returning.  The bathroom situation is going to be a big hurdle.

 

How are breaks going to work?  How do we keep them apart during lunch/recess?  Do we stagger breaks?  Do we have to develop a schedule breaks, are teachers giving up their recess/lunch breaks? 

 

Obviously the biggie is lesson planning.  It takes about 4 hours to plan and prep for a 6 hour day, when we actually have a template for a normal day.  Now, we have to start from scratch and plan for days with absolutely no idea of what we are going to be able to do.  Again, the makeup of returning students will largely dictate that and we won't know who is returning until mid-late next week.  With no template for our days, it'll be a 1:1 hour ratio for planning to implementation.  We still have to plan and teach online this week and next week.  People don't understand how much planning goes into teaching children.

 

Finally, we have to plan and implement two seperate days for every day.  The kids that return will need a plan and the kids staying home and distance learning will need a seperate plan..........every single day.  Right now teachers are struggling just to plan the distance learning day.  

 

So, no, 60 hours isn't even close to being enough.  You can't wing it for 6 hours with kids, it takes a ton of planning and prep at the best of times.  Now, we have to find ways to keep these kids busy for 6 hours a day because if they lose focus, the sh!t is going to hit the fan.

 

I get we'll have to return to face to face learning, but that is going to take a well thought out, detailed plan.  Were getting close to the date and there's still no plan given to the people expected to manage this return.  I get that the average person doesn't understand what goes into making schools function, but it takes hours and hours of planning and preparation at the best of times

 

Ultimately, I don't see the point when distance learning is bridging the gap for the time being.  It's 4 weeks, why not stick with the status quo and spend the summer putting together a detailed, well thought out, comprehensive plan that allows educators and administration the time needed to implement it properly.  On short notice it's going to be a train wreck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All good points

what grade(s) do you teach?

It sounds like Elementary.

I would think you need different teachers for in class and distance.

Other business' needed to increase staff and decrease productivity. Covid has made my work slower.

I think it would be a ridiculous ask to expect one teacher to teach in class, (with all new rules) and distance.

Now is the time for smaller class sizes

 

Do you think the Minister has written off this year, and is using this return as a test run for next year?

Ontario shut down schools yesterday, we might be farther ahead come September with the knowledge we learned with this return

It does seem like a dice roll, however, using kids as guinnea pigs

 

[Fan since 82]

46 minutes ago, Canada Hockey Place said:

The warning is about the false sense of security not the effectiveness of masks.

 

Wear a mask if you can. But be equally careful. The worry is some think a mask will protect them so they won't.  

 

There is an update this afternoon on masks. So things may change. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes new habits. It's not super difficult, just need to remember not to touch your face and still be careful.

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

isn't the mask to prevent spreading as opposed to reduce the chance of getting it?

 

agreed that reducing exposure is the best method

Exactly.

 

So the analogy of jumping off the cliff isn’t very fitting. It would be more like you increase someone else’s chance of falling off the cliff very slightly if you’re not distancing.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by DeNiro

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Reward. Risk vs. reward as a term in and of itself is pretty self explanatory. Essentially, it is a term that reminds investors to consider the risks of investments made, compare those risks to the potential rewards associated with those investments, and make an educated decision based on this knowledge.

 

Reward of opening schools - kids get up to 8 days of working on online materials in a classroom. Kids 2 metres apart. Lunch at their desk by themelves.  Don't touch anything around the classroom....  Also, i would not recommend you sitting next to Billy... his brother has active Covid  but Bill seems to be OK from what i as a teacher can see.....

 

Risk -  death of their grandparents / elderly neighbours. Parents if they have a compromised immune system.

 

 

 

Well - i just do see the reward  being worth the risks.  Without PPE in place... it is just insanity. 

this is the aspect a lot of people overlook, for students and staff.  By opening now, we are essentially saying that we can't have contact with parents, grandparents, senior family members etc until at least mid July.  Obviously grandparents are a big part if many kids lives.........so either they don't get to see Grandma and Grandpa, or they put their lives at risk.

 

What about staff members who have elderly parents at home that they take care of?  I know at last two on our staff who are caring for their parents in their home.  Obviously they likely won't be coming back, so who covers those classes?  My parents are 77 and live and work on my farm........they are currently in my bubble so we can work together right now.  Once my bubble expands to 250-ish people directly (not counting indirect exposure from those 250), how am I going to work on my farm without risking my parents?

 

All for four weeks of "school" which won't even be school, it will be daycare.  I'm an educator, not a babysitter

[DeNiro]

7 minutes ago, Me_ said:

There’s a difference between the general population wearing masks for general functions of life, and being a nurse on a 12 hour shift in a Covid-19 hospital taking care of 10 Covid-19 patients, five days a week.

Maybe I’m mistaken...

 

That’s why I said reducing areas of exposure is the only true measure.

 

The mask does not protect you as you could get the virus on you still and be infected when you go home later.

[Chicken.]

so I was walking around the park beside my house yesterday and there were at least 4 full-on soccer scrimmages going on with 15-20 people each. kids, and adults.

 

tennis courts were open everybody going ham having a jolly old time playing ping pong on the public tables. 

 

the city decides to open the fields and everyone throws caution to the wind.

 

 

[lmm]

9 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Exactly.

 

So the analogy of jumping off the cliff isn’t very fitting. It would be more like you increase someone else’s chance of falling off the cliff very slightly if you’re not distancing.

 

the jumping off a cliff answer is always used by those who have stopped thinking or have already lost an argument.

that peeing with or without pants was a better analogy

[stawns]

49 minutes ago, lmm said:

All good points

what grade(s) do you teach?

It sounds like Elementary.

I would think you need different teachers for in class and distance.

Other business' needed to increase staff and decrease productivity. Covid has made my work slower.

I think it would be a ridiculous ask to expect one teacher to teach in class, (with all new rules) and distance.

Now is the time for smaller class sizes

 

Do you think the Minister has written off this year, and is using this return as a test run for next year?

Ontario shut down schools yesterday, we might be farther ahead come September with the knowledge we learned with this return

It does seem like a dice roll, however, using kids as guinnea pigs

 

i work in an elementary school, yes.

 

we don't have enough teachers to cover both distance and face to face, not even close.  During normal times, there at least two days a week where there aren't enough TOC's to cover classes for sick teachers.  I don't see how this makes it better as 60% of the TOC's in my district are retired teachers, many of them over 65.  

 

My understanding is that we have to juggle distance and face to face, but we honestly haven't gotten any information that the general public hasn't gotten.  I know no more than you do about how this plan is going to be implemented, and we're 7 school days from re-opening.

 

Class sizes will be smaller, even in September, and that is one positive to come out of this, for sure.  They have been transparent that this is a dry run for September, but I don't feel, at all, like this is a thoughtful, well organized, detailed plan for re-opening schools.  Educators are planners and planning is the key to successful schools.  Why rush this?  Why not use the summer to put a real plan in place and give educators the time they need to do it right.  Additionally, we will know much more about this virus by September and will be more able to manage the risk.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by stawns

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Chicken. said:

so I was walking around the park beside my house yesterday and there were at least 4 full-on soccer scrimmages going on with 15-20 people each. kids, and adults.

 

tennis courts were open everybody going ham having a jolly old time playing ping pong on the public tables. 

 

the city decides to open the fields and everyone throws caution to the wind.

 

 

same here.  The park in lake Country was packed, tennis courts packed, trails packed

[wloutet]

Lessons on reading a graph, from the state of Georgia.

 

http://www.joeydevilla.com/2020/05/17/georgia-department-of-healths-master-class-on-misinforming-with-statistics/?fbclid=IwAR1RYrDyLMcjtw2r_QriUYTOevYtS8FYvEubfJRFSN4Gv6gi-U4gWSZiFhg

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, wloutet said:

Lessons on reading a graph, from the state of Georgia.

 

http://www.joeydevilla.com/2020/05/17/georgia-department-of-healths-master-class-on-misinforming-with-statistics/?fbclid=IwAR1RYrDyLMcjtw2r_QriUYTOevYtS8FYvEubfJRFSN4Gv6gi-U4gWSZiFhg

[kingofsurrey]

I guess Horgan and Dr. Bonnie know more than the CDN government......

#Broken BC

 

 

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34m

 

Federal government is now recommending the wearing of masks. I wonder if this will apply to all #bced Teachers? https://globalnews.ca/news/6963598/coronavirus-non-medical-masks-now-recommended/… #bcpoli

[BPA]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Keep digging with your spiteful posts about workers being flexible while employers offer no PPE to students and staff.

 

PPE should be provided to staff.

Kids PPE should be the responsibility of the parents. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

PPE should be provided to staff.

Kids PPE should be the responsibility of the parents. 

No PPE for kids - they should be sent home.

 

 

[stawns]

11 minutes ago, BPA said:

PPE should be provided to staff.

Kids PPE should be the responsibility of the parents. 

no ppe will be available, other than sanitizer.  Rumour had it that it was a hard no on masks, so we didn't scare kids, but now I'm hearing theyve softened on that. 

[RonMexico]

50 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Reward. Risk vs. reward as a term in and of itself is pretty self explanatory. Essentially, it is a term that reminds investors to consider the risks of investments made, compare those risks to the potential rewards associated with those investments, and make an educated decision based on this knowledge.

 

Reward of opening schools - kids get up to 8 days of working on online materials in a classroom. Kids 2 metres apart. Lunch at their desk by themelves.  Don't touch anything around the classroom....  Also, i would not recommend you sitting next to Billy... his brother has active Covid  but Bill seems to be OK from what i as a teacher can see.....

 

Risk -  death of their grandparents / elderly neighbours. Parents if they have a compromised immune system.

 

 

 

Well - i just do NOT see the reward  being worth the risks.  Without PPE in place... it is just insanity. 

 

They are making an educated decision. They have much more data and experts who are making calculated decisions with the data they have at hand. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it's the wrong way to go. So far BC and Alberta have taken different approaches and both have been successful. Why question what their leaders are doing now? It's not like they don't care about the potential risks like you seem to think.

 

Contrary to your worry, plenty of businesses stayed open the whole time up to today with little incidence of wild spread. In fact, it's been contained quite well due to the effort of everyone involved. Have some faith that this continues instead of being CDC's Chicken Little.