stawns Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: it will. We can get into discussions of overall risk profiles for things, but then some people will accuse you of being heartless, or a Trumper, trying to downplay it or whatever. But there are real effects on kids in other ways. What happens if we close schools down for another year, thats probably the only way to really have a 100% guarantee that no kid gets covid at a school. Is that going to cause a higher percentage of serious problems in other areas? kids are resilient........they went through the Depression, air raids in Britain, the Holocaust etc etc etc. Not saying we shouldn't return to school, just that the prospect of possible mental health issues shouldn't supercede saving lives. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, stawns said: kids are resilient........they went through the Depression, air raids in Britain, the Holocaust etc etc etc. Not saying we shouldn't return to school, just that the prospect of possible mental health issues shouldn't supercede saving lives. even if those mental health issues lead to higher suicide rates? its a very tough question imo anyway. If we demand that we have 100% safety from covid, that means no schools open for next year. Its pretty binary. We won't have a widely available vaccine until likely Feb or March, so thats near the entire year anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: even if those mental health issues lead to higher suicide rates? its a very tough question imo anyway. If we demand that we have 100% safety from covid, that means no schools open for next year. Its pretty binary. We won't have a widely available vaccine until likely Feb or March, so thats near the entire year anyway. mental health can be treated, right now, the virus can't. I also highly doubt the numbers of suicides would even be the hint of a shadow of the numbers of virus deaths. I do understand what you are saying though and mental health should be next in line for concern. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, wiseupsucker said: Why don't we make it now? Why don't we start fresh and say "hey, doesn't this make sense for Canada for us to extract, produce, refine and sell back someting that is legitimately ours back to ourselves?" Why can't we ask that? What can't we ask our government that? Our government lets it happen...it's our freaking government!!! It made sense for us to do that 30-40 years ago when the rest of Canada proposed it. Below market O&G to our fellow Canadians would have been a boon to people, industry/investment, transportation etc, etc. And yes, Alberta too. Unfortunately, Albertans of the time aloud themselves to be duped by a bunch of Americans that they were better off selling to... wait for it...the USA at a discount rather than their own countrymen. And since that time have been in complete denial and created an entire myth around it to avoid their own responsibility for messing up what could have been hugely beneficial to all Canadians. It's all the rest of Canada/the feds/the Trudeau's fault. No responsibility whatsoever for their own actions and decisions. And now hilariously, guys like you show up 40 years too late, as your industry wanders off in to the sunset, with this brilliant, 'original' idea! Edited May 21, 2020 by aGENT 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, stawns said: mental health can be treated, right now, the virus can't. I also highly doubt the numbers of suicides would even be the hint of a shadow of the numbers of virus deaths. I do understand what you are saying though and mental health should be next in line for concern. well, no one under their 40s has died from covid in BC. So I'm not sure your correct on that. We seem to be following an idea that there won't be any adverse effects from closing schools that are just as bad as covid for people under 18, and I don't know that we've really examined that idea. So if we're not going to close schools for all of next year, we have to accept some risk. So which risk is worse? Edited May 21, 2020 by Jimmy McGill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, stawns said: mental health can be treated, right now, the virus can't. as a parent who's had a kid with mental health challenges I find that a little flippant tbh. Its not that easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, no one under 64 has died from covid in BC. So I'm not sure your correct on that. A 47 year old health care worker from Richmond died from it Edited May 21, 2020 by bishopshodan nm, I see you corrected yourself 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, bishopshodan said: A 47 year old health care worker from Richmond died from it I corrected that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) What We Know About the Covid-Related Syndrome Affecting Children https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/parenting/pmis-coronavirus-children.amp.html According to Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, as of May 12, New York was investigating 102 cases of this syndrome and three deaths, and cases have been reported in 14 other states so far as well. Thankfully, this new syndrome is still quite rare and it is treatable, and most kids who develop it fully recover. ************ Let's crunch some numbers. New York state has about 353k infected and 22.5k deaths. Kids with Covid-19 and this inflammation condition is about 0.03%. And the kids that die from this inflammation is about 3%. So the probability of a kid catching Covid-19 and developing this inflammation and dying from it is 0.00085%. Or about 100,000 to 1 odds. (PS: I think my math is right). Edited May 21, 2020 by BPA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, BPA said: What We Know About the Covid-Related Syndrome Affecting Children https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/parenting/pmis-coronavirus-children.amp.html According to Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, as of May 12, New York was investigating 102 cases of this syndrome and three deaths, and cases have been reported in 14 other states so far as well. Thankfully, this new syndrome is still quite rare and it is treatable, and most kids who develop it fully recover. ************ Let's crunch some numbers. New York state has about 353k infected and 22.5k deaths. Kids with Covid-19 and this inflammation condition is about 0.03%. And the kids that die from this inflammation is about 3%. So the probability of a kid catching Covid-19 and developing this inflammation and dying from it is 0.00085%. Or about 1 million to 1 odds. (PS: I think my math is right). Jim and I were discussing this. I have read that they don't know for sure if it is related to coivd or not but they think it is. So the numbers are really low....but it does make you wonder what covid is capable of. Seems we still need to find out a lot more about this virus. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, no one under their 40s has died from covid in BC. So I'm not sure your correct on that. We seem to be following an idea that there won't be any adverse effects from closing schools that are just as bad as covid for people under 18, and I don't know that we've really examined that idea. So if we're not going to close schools for all of next year, we have to accept some risk. So which risk is worse? if numbers stay low, as they are, I have no issue opening schools in september, with obvious restrictions. But if there's a spike, they need to be shut down again. I agree there's a mental health component and socializing is important for kids, sadly I understand and have more experience there than I ever thought I would.........but what about family? What about the many kids who will have to stay away from garndparents etc because they are now exposed to hundreds of people, directly and thousands indirectly on a daily basis? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Jim and I were discussing this. I have read that they don't know for sure if it is related to coivd or not but they think it is. So the numbers are really low....but it does make you wonder what covid is capable of. Seems we still need to find out a lot more about this virus. for sure, but thats going to take time. No one likes to make cold calculations when it comes to safety. I'm just questioning if we're potentially creating more harm than good if we don't get kids lives back to something resembling normal sooner than later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: as a parent who's had a kid with mental health challenges I find that a little flippant tbh. Its not that easy. not flippant at all. I've had two students kill themsleves in 10 years. I take it very seriously 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: for sure, but thats going to take time. No one likes to make cold calculations when it comes to safety. I'm just questioning if we're potentially creating more harm than good if we don't get kids lives back to something resembling normal sooner than later. I think the more more we try to pretend it's normal, when it isn't, the worse it's going to be. The genie is out of the bottle now and you can't put it back in. Life is going to be different from here on out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, stawns said: if numbers stay low, as they are, I have no issue opening schools in september, with obvious restrictions. But if there's a spike, they need to be shut down again. I agree there's a mental health component and socializing is important for kids, sadly I understand and have more experience there than I ever thought I would.........but what about family? What about the many kids who will have to stay away from garndparents etc because they are now exposed to hundreds of people, directly and thousands indirectly on a daily basis? thats it, we have to ask things like these things and I think take a bigger look at what "harm" means in this context. We can still mitigate risk to seniors care by maintaining social distancing. Seeing your grandkids at 6' until there's a vaccine sucks, but not as bad as the risks from social isolation for kids with anxiety disorders, imo who need that structure to deal with their problems. I'm really afraid for the kids that will fall though the cracks if the schools don't reopen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: for sure, but thats going to take time. No one likes to make cold calculations when it comes to safety. I'm just questioning if we're potentially creating more harm than good if we don't get kids lives back to something resembling normal sooner than later. I'm in the wait till Sept camp. That's not too much longer. Meanwhile we learn a bit more about the virus and the schools have reasonable time to prep. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: Jim and I were discussing this. I have read that they don't know for sure if it is related to coivd or not but they think it is. So the numbers are really low....but it does make you wonder what covid is capable of. Seems we still need to find out a lot more about this virus. The numbers are just starting. China has quarantined a few regions due to outbreaks of what looks like a mutation that is taking much longer to show symptoms. The mutated version looks to make people asymptomatic for longer, and attacks multiple organs at once. Edited May 21, 2020 by Me_ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, bishopshodan said: I'm in the wait till Sept camp. That's not too much longer. Meanwhile we learn a bit more about the virus and the schools have reasonable time to prep. you're assuming there won't be a similar attitude in September tho. I hope you're correct and there is more info, but there may not be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Jim and I were discussing this. I have read that they don't know for sure if it is related to coivd or not but they think it is. So the numbers are really low....but it does make you wonder what covid is capable of. Seems we still need to find out a lot more about this virus. I think my math was wrong in that above calculations. The odds should be 100,000 to 1. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: for sure, but thats going to take time. No one likes to make cold calculations when it comes to safety. I'm just questioning if we're potentially creating more harm than good if we don't get kids lives back to something resembling normal sooner than later. 2 minutes ago, stawns said: I think the more more we try to pretend it's normal, when it isn't, the worse it's going to be. The genie is out of the bottle now and you can't put it back in. Life is going to be different from here on out. So, just what is normal? How long has it been normal? How long do we do something different before it becomes normal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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