Coronavirus outbreak

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Does one death hold less value?  
 

There is DIRECT correlation with unemployment rate and suicides. Causation in one results causation in the other. why is a covid death more valuable than a suicide death. 
 

Incase people still don’t understand the point. It’s a double edge sword. Prevention of one results in the loss in the other. 
 

You're sort of presenting it as such?

 

Prevention in one "may"....suicide isn't something you can necessarily just protect against with a job and the direct correlation is generally someone WITH underlying mental health issues.  The loss of a job may amplify things, yes.  You're really making it more superficial than it is (which is part of the problem) - it's complex mental health issues that usually drive people to suicide.   When someone thinks that death is the way out it's bigger than keeping them in a job.  It's truly sad, but you're pinpointing the things that people with mental health issues face (in a "just do this or that" way) and can't navigate through but there are reasons for that and help to combat them.   Therein lies the difference.

 

People want to dumb suicide down and that's often at the expense of the people suffering from it.  It's not that easy - unemployment is something we all will face at times but not all will commit suicide.  Those who do often need help that's bigger than just "employment".

 

One isn't more valuable...but mental health has tools and available resources to try to ward off suicide and it doesn't spread to others in the form of possible death by close proximity (unless there are mental health issues in the family...in which case it could have a ripple effect but, again...the driving force IS those mh issues not unemployment).  Covid has little to offer other than "wait and see".  So one is highly volatile, contagious and somewhat avoidable if measures are taken but you can't intervene much once it's present in order to prevent death.... other than helping to alleviate symptoms and hoping the person doesn't die.  Some will, some won't.   Some think age comes into play...but all people who die are family members to someone.  How about the depression that sinks in when loved ones suddenly are gone?  Job or not, that stuff hurts and someone already struggling may have lost their sounding board.  Their support person.

Suicide offers plenty of resources aimed at getting to the root of the problem so the symptoms aren't as unmanageable if tools/coping skills that are available/offered are implemented in order to ward it off.  Covid has...ventilators and crossed fingers.

 

[stawns]

23 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

Republicrats, CNN , Fox news. They are in an election year and it shows.

What's that got to do with Dr Tam?  

[bishopshodan]

Lets take 100 people with compromised immune systems that have threat of death from suicide and 100 with a threat of death from covid.

 

There is still the possibility to save all those that face death from suicide. 

 

That possibility, with the limited amount we know about covid does not currently exist. 

[Ryan Strome]

5 hours ago, samurai said:

Can you throw the Japanese numbers in there as well. The population is 125 million.  We did this a few weeks ago if I remember. 

I'm actually stunned with Russia. So many cases and so little deaths.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Lets take 100 people with compromised immune systems that have threat of death from suicide and 100 with a threat of death from covid.

 

There is still the possibility to save all those that face death from suicide. 

 

That possibility, with the limited amount we know about covid does not currently exist. 

Exactly right.  I'm not seeing the correlation.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Ireland deaths/1 million pop = 325

Netherlands deaths/1 million pop = 340

Belgium deaths/1 million pop = 801

UK deaths/1 million pop = 501

France deaths/1 million pop = 434

 

Those numbers don't tell much of a story, so many other variables are in play.  

 

 

 

As far as the Merrill lynch piece, that's one opinion,  The federal gov't, the Alberta provincial gov't and many others disagree and believe it's going to be years, if we ever get back to the way things were.  The company I consult for has a weekly call with these political parties as well as with Deloitte, discussing exactly this.  

 

Story isn't over yet though is it?  This just isn't a 'shot across the bow' against you but anybody who is doing their 'victory lap' before this "event" has moved on.

 

Game of Thrones was (imho) the greatest show on TV before it started to decline in later seasons & totally **** the bed in season 8.

[Wilbur]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I'm actually stunned with Russia. So many cases and so little deaths.

Their classification of a "Covid" death is very different from pretty much every other country.

 

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/08/russia-is-boasting-about-low-coronavirus-deaths-the-numbers-are-deceiving-a70220

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Their classification of a "Covid" death is very different from pretty much every other country.

 

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/08/russia-is-boasting-about-low-coronavirus-deaths-the-numbers-are-deceiving-a70220

Interesting. 

I don't know what to make of it because I think we are calling more deaths covid related than may not be.

Maybe some middle ground has to be found. For example what are the average amount of deaths in Canada, or even exact numbers over the last few years from old age, flu, pneumonia, etc compared to this year? 

If the numbers fall short than I think we at least get some answers.

To much work to jump into for a Sunday though.

[Timbermen]

13 minutes ago, stawns said:

What's that got to do with Dr Tam?  

Didn't she threaten every one with criminal prosecution for forgetting to stay 2 meters away from each other?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

15 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I'm actually stunned with Russia. So many cases and so little deaths.

Russia has ALOT more windows than a third rate country like Canada......

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/three-russian-doctors-have-fallen-from-hospital-windows-in-two-weeks-amid-reports-of-dire-conditions/2020/05/06/c3ca73f4-8f88-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html

 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

Didn't she threaten every one with criminal prosecution for forgetting to stay 2 meters away from each other?

Pick a lane man

[Ryan Strome]

9 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

Didn't she threaten every one with criminal prosecution for forgetting to stay 2 meters away from each other?

In what life can Canada's top doctor implement this?

[Timbermen]

Just now, stawns said:

Pick a lane man

What's that supposed to mean? Believe everything without question? You can believe that the virus is real but also believe political party's are using it to smear the other side, like they always do in an election year. Only listen to experts? Ok, fine, not all of them are saying the same things though.

[Timbermen]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

In what life can Canada's top doctor implement this?

In what world does she even say it? 

[Me_]

22 minutes ago, stawns said:

Exactly right.  I'm not seeing the correlation.

The correlation: using the increase in suicide prevention calls as a reason to reopen everything.

[Ryan Strome]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

Pick a lane man

This is a silly response. If that's why he dislikes her that's his opinion. I didn't realize she said that..my concern is he believes she has that authority. It's almost as ridiculous as when the health minister made threats towards losing civil liberties, again something out of her control.

[Wilbur]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Interesting. 

I don't know what to make of it because I think we are calling more deaths covid related than may not be.

Maybe some middle ground has to be found. For example what are the average amount of deaths in Canada, or even exact numbers over the last few years from old age, flu, pneumonia, etc compared to this year? 

If the numbers fall short than I think we at least get some answers.

To much work to jump into for a Sunday though.

I believe most are using how deaths are attributed to the flu.  I nabbed this from the CDC site: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

 

Quote

What are seasonal influenza-related deaths?

Seasonal influenza-related deaths are deaths that occur in people for whom influenza infection was likely a contributor to the cause of death, but not necessarily the primary cause of death.

And I'm fine with that.  Yes, other factors are at play, but, as you said, that's not a Sunday thing...probably not even something someone untrained in stats/health/etc could easily do.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Timbermen said:

In what world does she even say it? 

Absolutely I agree.

I'm stunned that she would make that claim.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Timbermen said:

What's that supposed to mean? Believe everything without question? You can believe that the virus is real but also believe political party's are using it to smear the other side, like they always do in an election year. Only listen to experts? Ok, fine, not all of them are saying the same things though.

You talk about not trusting Dr Tam because of political shenanigans, then you use American examples, then you cite Dr Tam recommending citations as your Canadian equivalent of the political shenanigans. 

 

You're all over the place.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

12 minutes ago, Toews said:

Its just ironic because you have sat here and consistently championed a business model which involves paying the top executives of corporations millions of dollars in compensation while workers can barely earn a livable wage. In response to critics of this model you have argued that workers need to improve their skillsets to command higher pay. Now those same people are dying in droves because a person's economic outlook has a big role to play in their well both mentally and physically.

 

I am just curious and I think this is a fair question to ask. Do you actually care about these people dying or are you more concerned for the effect this pandemic is going to have on the economy? 

Two scenarios. Both involve death. One puts us in a worse outlook when everything is over. The other puts us in a better outlook. If your odds are set up to lose at least focus on area with a glimmer of hope.
 

Again I think people might be confused in what I’m stating. I’m not saying we did the wrong thing originally. I think the lockdown was good considering the unknown. Now that we have more understanding I’m saying it’s time to start opening up again. Like we are doing. My debate is with the group that thinks things need to remained closed longer. And disagrees with the govt phased plan approach that has been implemented.