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24 minutes ago, The Aquamen said:

I fear we just might have a second wave of infections. Cuomo the New York governor, just advised that New York will open up for sports...:picard:  

 

The Millennials will mess this up. 
My newphew he is 15, asked me what a VCR is, and the in-put video and out-put video is. I wonder if he knows what, Super Nintendo is? Asked me how we communicated back then, with no cell phones, doesn’t understand what a Home Phone is.

 

Then tells me, “that’s sounds exhausting.” You little prick, go mow the lawn, google what that is. 
 

 

 LOL, he is a good kid though, good student. Really good @ baseball, chose Hockey over Baseball, honestly ......

Actually its the older generations that are messing this up more than anyone. Look at all the protests down in the states, those aren’t millennials, they’re whiny Gen Xers.

 

I think you’re thinking of Gen Z’s if you’re talking about 15 year olds. Those are the ones that are going to the beaches and parks. Millennials are actually the ones who are taking this the most seriously from what I’ve seen.

 

The second wave won’t come from sports reopening, it will come from the premature opening of gyms, parks, schools, shopping malls. Basically large gathering areas where outbreaks spread fast and are harder to trace.

 

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22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

To be honest I expected a better reply from you. The numbers do tell a lot of the story. Firstly, the Scandanavian countries are the appropriate comparable to Sweden because of similar lifestyles, health issues, diets, rates of obesity etc. The countries you list are not the appropriate comparable because of dissimilar lifestyles, health issues, diets, rates of obesity etc. Also, they were hit harder earlier. They had less time to develop their response. In fact the UK toyed with the idea of 'herd immunity' before they realized what a disaster that would be for them.

 

There’s so many other variables at play. Like travel amongst immigrant who reside in the country, like age median age and geographical of those ages like how In Norway the regional differences in the overall age level are clearly visible, with the far north and the far south characterised by a lower relative number of old age persons compared to the regions in between. distance between sparsely populated areas. and City sizes. Stockholm is 2.25x the size Oslo (Norway’s largest city) and Helsinki (Finland’s largest city). Just because they are neighbors and have similar life styles doesn’t mean they are great comparables.
 

Canada and US for example deployed very similar strategy’s, we are the closet comparable yet they have had completely different outcomes. The point I was making is a could cherry pick plenty of other examples. Even in Canada between the provinces we have such variation. 

 

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Saying there's other variables in play, then failing to list any is lazy. I get it's a hockey message board and not a university thesis but come on. A little effort to back up your argument is appreciated.

because there are and most of them are just common sense. What claiming they are neighbors is the dumbed down version of cherry picking numbers. One would think that is really only takes two seconds at The Who chart you posted to see a wide variation. 

 

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

The Merrill piece isn't an opinion. It's a conclusion based on hard medical and financial data. What really was the economic benefit to Sweden over Denmark when the differences in Consumer Spending was -25% to -29%?


Optimizing about countries economic recovery countries like Canada are amongst the lowest for people stating the will spend up to 40% less post covid where Sweden, next to japan is one of the highest. 
 

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

I don't know about you but I trust a research note from Merrill more than a government study.

 

it wasn’t a govt study and considering the company I consult with plays a major part in Canadian consumer spend I would trust the sources I have as our business and strategy depends on it. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Look at the medical data coming out of some of the states down south, namely Florida and Georgia. It's blatant BS. Even our own Canadian government was muzzling scientists and manipulating data to serve their own purposes. So I am going to look at Government data on an issue as contentious as Lockdown policies with a jaundiced eye. I suggest you do the same.

this isn’t govt doing research. This is Deloitte doing the research and the govt working with us on strategies based on that research. 

 

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

As for suicides rates. There is a correlation between the unemployment rate and suicide. No one will argue that. Economic despair is a great cause of suicide. What I haven't heard anyone concerned about rising suicide rates acknowledge is the economic policy response this time around. I have seen arguments citing the suicide rates from the Spanish Flu pandemic and the Great Depression and comparing them with the Covid-19 pandemic and the current economic turmoil. Yes, suicide rates did rise in those times. What this argument fails to take into account  is the unprecedented economic response this time around compared to those times. That's a pretty big variable to omit.

 

In this thread? Or another covid one id listed the areas that are predicting the increases based on the call service lines along with the suicides they have already happened in March. 

 

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

So  will suicide rates be comparable to those previous hardships? It's very doubtful.

I never claimed they were making predictions off viruses 100 years ago. They were based on data in the last 6 years. 

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6 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Actually its the older generations that are messing this up more than anyone. Look at all the protests down in the states, those aren’t millennials, they’re whiny Gen Xers.

 

The second wave won’t come from sports reopening, it will come from the premature opening of gyms, parks, schools, shopping malls. Basically large gathering areas where outbreaks spread fast and are harder to trace.

True, just indulge me for a second. I give Millennials no benefit of a doubt! Little bastards. Hosted a birthday party for my nephew, they are so lippy. I figured if I play beer pong with them, get them full and pass out. They just got more lippy, then I ended up arguing with 17 year olds. It’s ok I made them do my lawn, some stuff I had to get done around the house. Free labour.

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4 minutes ago, The Aquamen said:

True, just indulge me for a second. I give Millennials no benefit of a doubt! Little bastards 

Well millennials are 25 and older, Gen Z are 24 and younger.

 

I would say Gen Z is who you wanna direct your anger towards more than millennials.
 

Millennials are the ones who most likely have older parents and are taking this more seriously.

 

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3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Well millennials are 25 and older, Gen Z are 24 and younger.

 

I would say Gen Z is who you wanna direct your anger towards more than millennials.
 

Millennials are the ones who most likely have older parents and are taking this more seriously.

 

Gen Z millennials, whatever lol

 

I am not angry buds, do I seem angry? Damn it!

Edited by The Aquamen
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3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Fair enough.

By the way, that scene from Heat, Pacino and DeNiro, classic cinema. When they first meet.   
 

“do you like a simple life?”, “wtf is that ball games and BBQ?” Haha

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20 minutes ago, The Aquamen said:

True, just indulge me for a second. I give Millennials no benefit of a doubt! Little bastards 

On Friday I went on a walk toward downtown Toronto for the first since my last Corona beer back in mid-March.
 

Destination: Staples.

List of items: yes.
 

For the most part, I felt safe. I’d say the Friday afternoon density looked like that of a Sunday afternoon.

 

80-85% of everyone regardless of category wore a mask. The walk was also through Chinatown, where I’d say 90-95% wore masks.

 

I noticed two types not wearing masks: those who were embarrassed by not having a mask, and surely will get one very soon, and those who were categorically and proudly defiant.

 

Out of that category, most were in their early 20’s or mid 50’s, which really took me aback.
 

Both women and men were displaying this “affront” in their deviance, as if we’re all wrong.

 

In terms of which culture was more defiant, nothing really struck me as more or less defiant. However, by going through Chinatown, it is obvious that people there know what’s going on.

 

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3 minutes ago, Me_ said:

On Friday I went on a walk toward downtown Toronto for the first since all of theirs happened. 
 

Destination: Staples.

List of items: yes.
 

For the most part, I felt safe. I’d say the Friday afternoon looked like a Sunday afternoon in density.

 

80-85% of everyone regardless of category wore a mask. The walk was also through Chinatown, where I’d say 90-95% wore masks.

 

I noticed two types not wearing masks: those who were embarrassed by not having a mask, and surely will get one very soon, and those who were categorically and proudly defiant.

 

Out of that category, most were in their early 20’s and mid 50’s. 
 

Both women and men were displaying this affront in their deviance, as if we’re all wrong.

 

In terms of which culture was more defiant, nothing really struck me as more or less defiant. However, by going through Chinatown, it is obvious that people there know what’s going on.

 

Chinese always wear masks, they introduced SARS, the other one, and Covid. China has to fix they’re food regulations, too many open market meats for sale, poor hygiene.

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@NewbieCanuckFan @Me_, let’s do the Carlton, it’s Unusual to be Loved by anyone. Always reminds me of Edward Scissor Hands. 
 

Take that Millennials.  
I get told that I look like Johnny Depp, is that an insult? 
 

 

 

seee meeee cryyyyy I wannna dieee 

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3 minutes ago, The Aquamen said:

@NewbieCanuckFan @Me_, let’s do the Carlton, it’s Unusual to be Loved by anyone. Always reminds me of Edward Scissor Hands. 
 

Take that Millennials.  
I get told that I look like Johnny Depp, is that an insult? 
 

 

 

seee meeee cryyyyy I wannna dieee 

My GF Elaine will only agree to let me if she’s gets to dance as well....

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

My GF Elaine will only agree to let me if she’s gets to dance as well....

 

 

 

Hahahahaha hahahahaha, I used too have a crush on Elaine, in the 90’s. 
 

ooops I did it again!

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2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

 

Obfuscation isn't a game I play. You got something to say, go ahead and say it. You've added absolutely nothing to support your complaint. Just whining for the sake of whining. It's boring.

 

This game of verbal footsie you're engaging in is of no interest to me.

Denmark was one of the first Euro countries to engage in some kind of lockdown - being quick (e.g Taiwan) appears to have been a crucial variable in containing the virus-  of course it is.  Their measures taken were a lot less stringent than many other countries. But what are the detailed differences and similarities between the Swedish and Danish version?  I would not paint it black and white as you are doing here.  Sweden did shut down schools too!

 

On the issue of consumer spending. Exactly, how spread was it across the economy.   If restaurants were closed in Denmark then I would guess not much consumer spending there - all businesses matter.  Can you provide any sort of breakdown.  As the 'note' points a 4% difference in consumer spending is a big deal.  I wonder how small private businesses made out between the 2 countries?   You provide no information on that at all.  

 

I also do not recall any Swedish officials saying that their policy was based on keeping the economy going - can you provide any evidence that someone involved in the policy decision making  specifically said that economy is our main concern.   There were a lot of very principled reasons for a voluntary lockdown, one namely respecting people's rights and freedoms.  

 

And of course the big monkey in the room is that like Canada most of Sweden's deaths have occurred in care facilities.   That has no connection to allowing cafes to stay open or not.  Of course in Sweden they had the right to decide.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

There’s so many other variables at play. Like travel amongst immigrant who reside in the country, like age median age and geographical of those ages like how In Norway the regional differences in the overall age level are clearly visible, with the far north and the far south characterised by a lower relative number of old age persons compared to the regions in between. distance between sparsely populated areas. and City sizes. Stockholm is 2.25x the size Oslo (Norway’s largest city) and Helsinki (Finland’s largest city). Just because they are neighbors and have similar life styles doesn’t mean they are great comparables.
 

Canada and US for example deployed very similar strategy’s, we are the closet comparable yet they have had completely different outcomes. The point I was making is a could cherry pick plenty of other examples. Even in Canada between the provinces we have such variation. 

First of all, thank you for the detailed response. IMO the Scandanavian neighbors are the appropriate comparison rather than other European countries like Britain or France because among other things London, Paris, Rome, Frankfurt are all major entry points to Europe. Stockholm, Oslo, Helsinki, Copenhagen aren't. How did Covid-19 reach the Lombardy region of Italy? It came directly from Wuhan. Plus the Scandi countries had the benefit of watching major outbreaks hit the rest of Europe before them and plan their responses. That's why they are each others' best comparable.

 

I can't agree that the US and Canada deployed similar strats. In Canada, while the provinces are in charge. We have had a united response from the federal government. While in the States it's been a 50 state free for all.

 

28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

because there are and most of them are just common sense. What claiming they are neighbors is the dumbed down version of cherry picking numbers. One would think that is really only takes two seconds at The Who chart you posted to see a wide variation.

Never posted anything from the WHO. Don't even think I have ever been on their site. Unless you're talking about the rock band.

 

28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Optimizing about countries economic recovery countries like Canada are amongst the lowest for people stating the will spend up to 40% less post covid where Sweden, next to japan is one of the highest. 

I haven't seen this data. This 'sentiment' data can change on the turn of a dime. Is it that hard to imagine that when the Japanese government sends cash directly to citizens in the form of free money that they would be willing to spend it?

 

28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

it wasn’t a govt study and considering the company I consult with plays a major part in Canadian consumer spend I would trust the sources I have as our business and strategy depends on it. 

 

 

this isn’t govt doing research. This is Deloitte doing the research and the govt working with us on strategies based on that research. 

Can't comment on this as I have no idea who you work for nor is it my business.

 

28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

In this thread? Or another covid one id listed the areas that are predicting the increases based on the call service lines along with the suicides they have already happened in March. 

 

I never claimed they were making predictions off viruses 100 years ago. They were based on data in the last 6 years. 

I should have been more clear. These arguments I read were made on another site. But it's a very common argument. I am not surprised if there was an uptick in suicides in March. That was at the beginning of lockdown measures before government programs sprung into action.

 

Realistically we are maybe in the 2nd or 3rd inning of this game. There will be plenty or time for a postmortem. For now, the data that is available shows not much difference in the economies of Sweden and Denmark. But a big difference in the healthcare outcome. For how the rest plays out, stay tuned.

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2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Well America....I mean if you're wondering why we want that border kept closed...

 

Yikes

 

 

98318424_4605467489464193_1430818339768238080_n.png

don't worry, i doubt many of these people are interested in Canada, or know where it is on a map. 

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1 hour ago, samurai said:

Denmark was one of the first Euro countries to engage in some kind of lockdown - being quick (e.g Taiwan) appears to have been a crucial variable in containing the virus-  of course it is.  Their measures taken were a lot less stringent than many other countries. But what are the detailed differences and similarities between the Swedish and Danish version?  I would not paint it black and white as you are doing here.  Sweden did shut down schools too!

 

On the issue of consumer spending. Exactly, how spread was it across the economy.   If restaurants were closed in Denmark then I would guess not much consumer spending there - all businesses matter.  Can you provide any sort of breakdown.  As the 'note' points a 4% difference in consumer spending is a big deal.  I wonder how small private businesses made out between the 2 countries?   You provide no information on that at all.  

 

I also do not recall any Swedish officials saying that their policy was based on keeping the economy going - can you provide any evidence that someone involved in the policy decision making  specifically said that economy is our main concern.   There were a lot of very principled reasons for a voluntary lockdown, one namely respecting people's rights and freedoms.  

 

And of course the big monkey in the room is that like Canada most of Sweden's deaths have occurred in care facilities.   That has no connection to allowing cafes to stay open or not.  Of course in Sweden they had the right to decide.

 

 

Great post samurai. It’s good to see.

 

As for the “big monkey in the room”, I have only one question: who did you run away from that you had to move all the way to Japan?
 

It’s about the loved ones of everyone. That is the intangible part of your assessment that just isn’t in your discourse. 
 

The Love.
 

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10 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Great post samurai. It’s good to see.

 

As for the “big monkey in the room”, I have only one question: who did you did you run away from that you had to move all the way to Japan?
 

It’s about the loved ones of everyone. That is the intangible part part of your assessment that isn’t isn’t in your discourse. 
 

Love.
 

 Lives for lives.   Now get back to watching CNN and the other mainstream media so you can keep everyone rightly informed on this site.   

 

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