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7 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Are you comparing human beings to stocks?

 

That's your first mistake.

Treatment costs on a junkie with high potential of relapse to that of a very risky stock with high potential of falling in the toilet for example, yes, they're both a huge gamble. 

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4 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Treatment costs on a junkie with high potential of relapse to that of a very risky stock with high potential of falling in the toilet for example, yes, they're both a huge gamble. 

Wow, i wonder what you will say when one of these as you say  "JUNKIES"  is your son/daughter/cousin/friend.

 

Sick people need our  help not negative  labels and scorn....    

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44 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Treatment costs on a junkie with high potential of relapse to that of a very risky stock with high potential of falling in the toilet for example, yes, they're both a huge gamble. 

If they have enough money to invest in that stock in the first place, it's not really comparable to a junkie who can't do that.

 

One is potentially vital to the survival of the junkie while the other shouldn't be (again, assuming they're investing in stocks because they have the money to spare).

 

Simply put, one has my sympathy, the other does not.

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4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I, too, feel this way.

This is a "large gathering" beyond what is recommended for group settings.  Not sure why we can't have measures in place to ensure protests are done "safely".

It's just not sitting well with me. I'm not sure how health officials can continue to say outdoor events are a health risk to public safety if people keep gathering in the hundreds/thousands to protest with no significant spikes in cases. 

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26 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

It's just not sitting well with me. I'm not sure how health officials can continue to say outdoor events are a health risk to public safety if people keep gathering in the hundreds/thousands to protest with no significant spikes in cases. 

We may well see increases in size for outdoor events in Phase 3 if there aren't any increasing infection rates.  I think Phase 3 is to be announced this coming week if all goes well.  

I don't think anyone was encouraging the mass protests and Dr. Henry was pretty clear that she wasn't happy about it.  However, I agree with others that given the emotion around the issues, not the hill I'd want to charge in terms of trying to shut down the protests.  That would have likely caused rioting which we're kind of known for anyway :(  

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6 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

One thing that really bothers me that I'm having a hard time reconciling is the obvious contradiction between the COVID restrictions on people in groups and the mass gatherings/protests we've seen.

 

So, this is the message I'm seeing out of this ... that it's ok to gather outside in large groups as long as it's a protest for social justice ... yet all other outdoor event for 2020 must be cancelled. 

 

I have zero issues with protesting or the right to protest. None. I care about the issues we face and the need for change. These protests are important and we need that aspect of society to thrive.

 

I do, however, take issue with restrictions on mass gatherings, outdoor events being cancelled for the remainder of the year, businesses going under and livelihoods being ruined when those same restrictions don't apply to people gathering to protest in the hundreds and thousands. Especially if we don't see spikes or increases in cases.

 

I can't be the only one who sees this or feels this way. 

 

 

My wedding was supposed to be today and i was supposed to go to vegas tomorrow for a vacation and first honeymoon.

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3 hours ago, stawns said:

The context being it's not like protestors are going to a store, concert etc.  They don't have "permission" to protest.  

Thanks for clarifying. That's what I thought you meant.

 

Well, they don't have "official permission" but they do have "social permission" that's more mainstream than ever before. It's unseen social currency/permission within a worthy fight for justice that's permissible.

 

The thing is ... some of the online community groups I belong to now have things like "protest kits", "protest with a buddy" and "protest checklists" of essentials to bring to the event  ... ie: Make sure you bring bottled water, your masks, foldable chairs, food, signage, umbrella, etc ... it's gone so mainstream now that it's no different than going to an outdoor concert or festival. 

 

Like I said above, I don't see how health officials can continue to prevent other outdoor events and say they pose a risk to public safety meanwhile people are organizing and gathering to protest by the thousands.

 

If we don't see significant increases in cases as a result of these gatherings, at some point you have addess the contradiction.

 

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22 minutes ago, skategal said:

We may well see increases in size for outdoor events in Phase 3 if there aren't any increasing infection rates.  I think Phase 3 is to be announced this coming week if all goes well.  

I don't think anyone was encouraging the mass protests and Dr. Henry was pretty clear that she wasn't happy about it.  However, I agree with others that given the emotion around the issues, not the hill I'd want to charge in terms of trying to shut down the protests.  That would have likely caused rioting which we're kind of known for anyway :(  

True. We may very well see spikes as a result. It'll be interesting to see.

 

In no way am I saying to shut down the protests. That's not what I'm saying. Also, I'm not saying anyone was encouraging the protests either.

 

A lot of businesses and livelihoods have been hurt by the cancellation of many outdoor events in all of 2020 in the name of safety to prevent people from gathering by the thousands. Obviously it was all done to err on the side of caution but I'd like to see health officials address this if we don't see those spikes.

 

Who knows ... the protests may be the unforeseen experiment that shows large outdoor gatherings are okay. 

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5 hours ago, Wilbur said:

The message from BC (at least that I heard), was that IF you felt compelled to protest, please maintain social distancing.  Obviously most didn't, to the surprise of nobody.  But like @gurnsaid, if police came out to crack down on social distancing measures at the protest things probably would've gotten messy and even more harm would've been done.

We'll see how these protests change (or don't change) the numbers.  Towards the end of this week things were trending the wrong way in BC.  Hopefully that was a blip and not the start of a trend back up.  Numbers in the USA seem to be on the arise again too.

I don't think I gave enough detail in my originsl post. It's the contradiction of it all that bothers me. The macro of it all rather than the micro. 

 

I'm not expecting social distancing measures to be enforced at a protest ... that's completely unrealistic ... nor would I want to see police crack down on the protests. 

 

I'm just starting to question the restrictions on outdoor events, festivals, etc, now that we're seeing people gather by the thousands. At the moment, it seems like without consequence. And if there aren't spikes in cases, I'd like for our health officials to address it. 

 

 

 

 

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Oh my God.

So the new thing in Ontario is you can build a bubble of ten people. 
 

It’s Saturday in Toronto. 
 

They’re taking it as; you can now form parties of ten people max.

 

Its gonna get real ugly.

 

Anyways here’s the news:

 

Ontario allows expanded social bubbles. Here's how to create your circle

 

Here's how to create your social circle: 

 

Step 1: Start with your current circle. These include the people you live with or who regularly come into your household. 

Step 2: If your current circle is under 10 people, you can add members to your circle, including another household, family members or friends. 

Step 3: Get agreement from everyone that they will join the circle. 

Step 4: Keep your social circle safe. Maintain physical distancing with anyone outside of your circle. 

Step 5: Be true to your circle. No one should be part of more than one circle. 
 

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18 hours ago, Templeton Peck said:

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Then have a dog run in, eat some then trample through it, spread it everywhere, poop on the carpet and bite everyone before he leaves.  That's my life right now.

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1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

What people are conveniently overlooking is anything past Step 2 and the parts where your bubble is all supposed to have a pact that protects everyone.  If someone

 

Even within our group (me, Dad, my kids and, until recently, my brother)....we're still meeting outside (weather is great, so why not?) or wearing masks indoors.  Better safe than sorry in protecting each other.  It's a pain, yes...but well worth the effort.

Why do you worry about your bubble Deb....    Horgan and Dr. Bonnie have BC teachers back in the classroom now.  My neighbour sees 10 kids M/T and a different 10 kids on T/Fr.  So at least 20 different kids per week.  Let say each of these kids has 10 family/friends in their bubble...

 

So my neighbours bubble is now over  200 people.....  not including the people she lives with... 

 

Sick kids are sent home but allowed back the next day... No temperature testing done.  No masks required. 

 

Horgan seems to think this is fine...  Dr. Bonnie says my teacher  neighbour and the kids should not even bother wearing masks...... 

and that the virus does  not really spread with kids...    Yah, strange how an entire class of kids in Quebec is now covid positive....  I guess Horgan just ignores facts that don't allign with his narrative.....    

 

The problem in BC we have is that our leaders here dropped the ball about a month ago and have given people false sense of security..... 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Thanks for clarifying. That's what I thought you meant.

 

Well, they don't have "official permission" but they do have "social permission" that's more mainstream than ever before. It's unseen social currency/permission within a worthy fight for justice that's permissible.

 

The thing is ... some of the online community groups I belong to now have things like "protest kits", "protest with a buddy" and "protest checklists" of essentials to bring to the event  ... ie: Make sure you bring bottled water, your masks, foldable chairs, food, signage, umbrella, etc ... it's gone so mainstream now that it's no different than going to an outdoor concert or festival. 

 

Like I said above, I don't see how health officials can continue to prevent other outdoor events and say they pose a risk to public safety meanwhile people are organizing and gathering to protest by the thousands.

 

If we don't see significant increases in cases as a result of these gatherings, at some point you have addess the contradiction.

 

not arguing that, at all.  I absolutely support the cause and people's right to protest, and my own daughter attended the Vancouver rally..........but I absolutely don't think it's a good idea in a pandemic.

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1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Why do you worry about your bubble Deb....    Horgan and Dr. Bonnie have BC teachers back in the classroom now.  My neighbour sees 10 kids M/T and a different 10 kids on T/Fr.  So at least 20 different kids per week.  Let say each of these kids has 10 family/friends in their bubble...

 

So my neighbours bubble is now over  200 people.....  not including the people she lives with... 

 

Sick kids are sent home but allowed back the next day... No temperature testing done.  No masks required. 

 

Horgan seems to think this is fine...  Dr. Bonnie says my teacher  neighbour and the kids should not even bother wearing masks...... 

and that the virus does  not really spread with kids...    Yah, strange how an entire class of kids in Quebec is now covid positive....  I guess Horgan just ignores facts that don't allign with his narrative.....    

 

The problem in BC we have is that our leaders here dropped the ball about a month ago and have given people false sense of security..... 

 

 

I do care.  And I also agree re schools and the risks involved that, really, seem to be a rush to get kids "somewhere" so parents can go back to work.  Don't think it's ideal by any means.

But, further to that, if I was in the position you're in....I'd just take measures to protect myself.  I'd bring/wear a mask and if challenged on that, push back as a workplace safety issue.  I'd have sanitizer on my desk and be washing constantly.  Make the best of a situation that isn't great.  I do empathize with you/teachers.  I just wouldn't sit back and wait or exhaust too much energy griping as it doesn't change things...I'd do what I could to protect myself.

The issue of masks has been very inconsistent....so we have to decide for ourselves in the end.

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4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I do care.  And I also agree re schools and the risks involved that, really, seem to be a rush to get kids "somewhere" so parents can go back to work.  Don't think it's ideal by any means.

But, further to that, if I was in the position you're in....I'd just take measures to protect myself.  I'd bring/wear a mask and if challenged on that, push back as a workplace safety issue.  I'd have sanitizer on my desk and be washing constantly.  Make the best of a situation that isn't great.  I do empathize with you/teachers.  I just wouldn't sit back and wait or exhaust too much energy griping as it doesn't change things...I'd do what I could to protect myself.

The issue of masks has been very inconsistent....so we have to decide for ourselves in the end.

Pretty much this. Even in situations that are less than ideal, you always have a choice in how you react and take care of yourself.

 

In the end, it's a much stronger stance to make do with what you got rather than complain about it. Not saying there isn't a place for complaining, but this falls in line with the cliche "actions speak louder than words".

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A scary example of how serious this virus is. Specifically how dangerous it is to the lungs. 

 

One of treatment of serious cases has been ECMO. In short pumping blood from somewhere else, adding oxygen then pumping it back to the lungs.  :o

 

Quote

Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, also known as extracorporeal life support, is an extracorporeal technique of providing prolonged cardiac and respiratory support to persons whose heart and lungs are unable to provide an adequate amount of gas exchange or perfusion to sustain life. Wikipedia

 

one story - https://localnews8.com/health/2020/05/27/a-ventilator-wasnt-enough-to-treat-him-for-covid-19-this-machine-became-his-last-chance-for-survival/

 

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