CBH1926 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, samurai said: Asian schools are in session right now. 18 million kids in Japan are now back for 5 plus hours a day. After schools activities are ongoing as well. This has been going on since early June - count the days. No deaths, clusters, or mini clusters. Nothing traced to a single school. What exactly are you talking about when you say children are being put at risk? The research out of Euro and most places have been very clear that schools especially at the primary level were not infection spots right from the start. And what is more the evidence of children infecting someone else in the family is anecdotal at best - a few cases world wide! That’s all fine and dandy, but I am not letting my kids be canaries in a mine. Plus, most of us here don’t live in Asia, which has handled outbreak very well by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Just now, CBH1926 said: That’s all fine and dandy, but I am not letting my kids be canaries in a mine. Plus, most of us here don’t live in Asia, which has handled outbreak very well by the way. I don't think the research supports the position that children are at risk. BC's data trajectory and overall handling has more on common with say Japan and Korea than it does the UK or Texas. I have two children in primary school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, samurai said: Asian schools are in session right now. 18 million kids in Japan are now back for 5 plus hours a day. After schools activities are ongoing as well. This has been going on since early June - count the days. No deaths, clusters, or mini clusters. Nothing traced to a single school. What exactly are you talking about when you say children are being put at risk? The research out of Euro and most places have been very clear that schools especially at the primary level were not infection spots right from the start. And what is more the evidence of children infecting someone else in the family is anecdotal at best - a few cases world wide! You have any links to back this up because I heard different. There's a link to the study in the article. https://www.axios.com/childen-coronavirus-spread-schools-d925b7c3-0d74-4242-a4a1-d72d5d7696f5.html From the study: We showed that household transmission of SARS-CoV-2 was high if the index patient was 10–19 years of age. In the current mitigation strategy that includes physical distancing, optimizing the likelihood of reducing individual, family, and community disease is important. Implementation of public health recommendations, including hand and respiratory hygiene, should be encouraged to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 within affected households. Top Dr. Young Joon Park is the preventive medicine physician leading the Epidemiology and Case Management Team for the COVID-19 National Emergency Response Center, Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. His primary research interests include epidemiologic investigation of infectious disease outbreaks. Dr. Choe is an assistant professor at Hallym University College of Medicine. Her research focuses on infectious diseases epidemiology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, samurai said: I don't think the research supports the position that children are at risk. BC's data trajectory and overall handling has more on common with say Japan and Korea than it does the UK or Texas. I have two children in primary school. The students may not be at risk but what about their parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, samurai said: I don't think the research supports the position that children are at risk. BC's data trajectory and overall handling has more on common with say Japan and Korea than it does the UK or Texas. I have two children in primary school. Children are less at risk of serious health complications due to COVID but as far as I know they aren't immune to contracting the virus or spreading it. Edited July 20, 2020 by Toews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Toews said: Children are less at risk of serious health complications due to COVID but as far as I know they aren't immune to contracting the virus or spreading it. Yes, when I meant risk I was talking about serious health complications including death. Definitely, not immune and they can spread but as we are seeing here in Japan schools (kids) are not spreaders - same in Vietnam. S Korea, and so forth Someone asked me for my evidence and the fact Asia is back in school without problems is evidence enough. However, there are numerous studies and experts who argue that schools are not spreaders and that with proper guidelines they will be fine. That is playing out here. I just pulled this off the net. Here when parents were told that kids would go back many parents were of course nervous but pretty much everyone went back. 2 months in now it is a non-issue. Summer vacation here has been shortened to 2 weeks to make up for the lost time. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: You have any links to back this up because I heard different. There's a link to the study in the article. https://www.axios.com/childen-coronavirus-spread-schools-d925b7c3-0d74-4242-a4a1-d72d5d7696f5.html From the study: We showed that household transmission of SARS-CoV-2 was high if the index patient was 10–19 years of age. In the current mitigation strategy that includes physical distancing, optimizing the likelihood of reducing individual, family, and community disease is important. Implementation of public health recommendations, including hand and respiratory hygiene, should be encouraged to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 within affected households. Top Dr. Young Joon Park is the preventive medicine physician leading the Epidemiology and Case Management Team for the COVID-19 National Emergency Response Center, Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. His primary research interests include epidemiologic investigation of infectious disease outbreaks. Dr. Choe is an assistant professor at Hallym University College of Medicine. Her research focuses on infectious diseases epidemiology. Sorry, yes kids can spread - not staying they don't. No question. But they are not very good at it. There are numerous experts and articles (including research) on this. Schools here are in full swing - it's been about 3 months and 2 of those have been regular as you can get - 9 to 3 pm. They are served lunch as well. There are obvious guidelines and there have been no problems (problems with other places like bars, live houses and so forth). Here is an article I just pulled off. I was told uni's in North America are going online again. But here classes are slowly being held in class again with guidelines. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, samurai said: Sorry, yes kids can spread - not staying they don't. No question. But they are not very good at it. There are numerous experts and articles (including research) on this. Schools here are in full swing - it's been about 3 months and 2 of those have been regular as you can get - 9 to 3 pm. They are served lunch as well. There are obvious guidelines and there have been no problems (problems with other places like bars, live houses and so forth). Here is an article I just pulled off. I was told uni's in North America are going online again. But here classes are slowly being held in class again with guidelines. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony Do you know if the kids wear masks at school? At least for grade 5 and up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, samurai said: I don't think the research supports the position that children are at risk. BC's data trajectory and overall handling has more on common with say Japan and Korea than it does the UK or Texas. I have two children in primary school. It seems that some of the peeps around here are getting so caught up with the happenings in the US, that they think the same will happen here. If Covid 19 has shown us that Canada and especially BC are quite different than our southern neighbours; especially when unity and solid leadership is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: Do you know if the kids wear masks at school? At least for grade 5 and up? This article is quite informative and mentions masking wearing in ' some' German schools. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks This what it says about Germany Elsewhere, masks are less central. In some schools in Germany, students wear them in hallways or bathrooms, but can remove them when seated at their (distantly spaced) desks. Austria reopened with this approach, but abandoned masks for students a few weeks later, when officials observed little spread within schools. In Canada, Denmark, Norway, the United Kingdom, and Sweden, mask wearing was optional for both students and staff. In Japan kids have to wear masks, but few schools have the plastic sheets for the desks and they don't wear shields. Kindergarten and nursery they have never worn masks cause the kids will not wear them. Kids at all levels here do not have to wear masks for gym or playing outside. The heat is a big concern here for people wearing masks. I am guessing in BC kids will have to wear them for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: Hands up if you're surprised that this happened in Alberta..... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/anti-mask-rallies-draw-crowds-in-calgary-and-edmonton-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/ar-BB16Wbuc?li=AAggNb9 Nobody? That's what I thought.... Why always the focus on Alberta, Why not look in your own back yard? Vancouver protesters rally against masks https://globalnews.ca/news/7195268/coronavirus-vancouver-anti-mask-rally/ My favourite part “I’m not anti-mask, I wear a mask 24/7, it’s called an immune system.” I mean how can you argue with such strong logic. lol 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Why always the focus on Alberta, Why not look in your own back yard? Vancouver protesters rally against masks https://globalnews.ca/news/7195268/coronavirus-vancouver-anti-mask-rally/ My favourite part “I’m not anti-mask, I wear a mask 24/7, it’s called an immune system.” I mean how can you argue with such strong logic. lol People are inherently selfish and those who believe "their rights" are at stake are also inherently stupid. Edited July 20, 2020 by Warhippy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, samurai said: I don't think the research supports the position that children are at risk. BC's data trajectory and overall handling has more on common with say Japan and Korea than it does the UK or Texas. I have two children in primary school. I don’t live in Texas, but my home state has had 163k cases and almost 7500 deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, higgyfan said: It seems that some of the peeps around here are getting so caught up with the happenings in the US, that they think the same will happen here. If Covid 19 has shown us that Canada and especially BC are quite different than our southern neighbours; especially when unity and solid leadership is concerned. I have lived around the world and when people ask me about Vancouver and this applies to BC on the whole what i say is people are pretty health conscience. Vancouver is an outdoor city. I think pretty good hygiene as well. Taking a shower or bath everyday is pretty normal in BC. Most places you go to are quite clean. I agree people in Canada are exposed to too much American media and it distorts what we thinking is happening in Canada. BC has more in common with Northern Euro cultures and Asia than it does with Texas or Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, samurai said: This article is quite informative and mentions masking wearing in ' some' German schools. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks This what it says about Germany Elsewhere, masks are less central. In some schools in Germany, students wear them in hallways or bathrooms, but can remove them when seated at their (distantly spaced) desks. Austria reopened with this approach, but abandoned masks for students a few weeks later, when officials observed little spread within schools. In Canada, Denmark, Norway, the United Kingdom, and Sweden, mask wearing was optional for both students and staff. In Japan kids have to wear masks, but few schools have the plastic sheets for the desks and they don't wear shields. Kindergarten and nursery they have never worn masks cause the kids will not wear them. Kids at all levels here do not have to wear masks for gym or playing outside. The heat is a big concern here for people wearing masks. I am guessing in BC kids will have to wear them for a while? Unless the infection rate changes significantly before Sept, I think it will be as it was in June: masks are optional. A lot of folks are understandably concerned and will hold their kids back until they can feel safe about them attending school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: I don’t live in Texas, but my home state has had 163k cases and almost 7500 deaths. I am talking about school openings in situations where the community spread is low. But we are probably on the same page in that if you do not have it under some kind of control in the wider community than that should be sorted before allowing kids to go back to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Unless the infection rate changes significantly before Sept, I think it will be as it was in June: masks are optional. A lot of folks are understandably concerned and will hold their kids back until they can feel safe about them attending school. With my kids it was hard to see how not going to school impacted them mentally during the closure. But once they did go back it was easy to see how hard it had been on them. It was night and day. If they had been grey during the closure they turned bright yellow once they got to go back. School is such an important part of the their social life and development. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, samurai said: Asian schools are in session right now. 18 million kids in Japan are now back for 5 plus hours a day. After schools activities are ongoing as well. This has been going on since early June - count the days. No deaths, clusters, or mini clusters. Nothing traced to a single school. What exactly are you talking about when you say children are being put at risk? The research out of Euro and most places have been very clear that schools especially at the primary level were not infection spots right from the start. And what is more the evidence of children infecting someone else in the family is anecdotal at best - a few cases world wide! Seriously? You don't think there's a big difference between Japan and the US right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) There are anti-maskers in just about every place, so can't really single out anyone in particular. This shouldn't be surprising because there are self-centered a-holes in just about every place. Usually these people's actions only touch those who are close to them, family, friends etc. But now their actions have life-and-death, societal consequences, that's more power than most of them have had in a lifetime. Why wouldn't they revel in their new found ability to get attention from a wider audience? I wish people would stop filming/covering them, just cordon them off and ignore them, don''t put them in the news and don't share/proliferate their twisted beliefs. Edited July 20, 2020 by Toews 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 I like this on twitter... Yesterday it was announced by the MoE that they are looking at the Netherlands as an example of what to do for fall restart. Let’s start here - Netherlands spend $11, 600 per FTE on education - Canada on the same chart provides 11,100 BC provides 2nd lowest in Canada at $8300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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