Ohh, These Conveniently Timed Injuries...

[Nuxfanabroad]

Boychuk, Steen, Kuch..the list goes on & on. They suuure leave some gaping loopholes that privileged US markets always seem to happily exploit.

Not surprised..have been predicting this ruse would occur, from months back.

 

At least a cap-system keeps team-expenditures relatively close.

 

Recall watching a Finals game(just a period or so) early millennium..Detroit was around a 100 mill & the Canes looked like an AHL star-squad(perhaps 15-20 mill total?)

Such a disgrace watching orgs buy Cups back then, in Buttman's rigged US deck.

Almost 3 decades now, they've rigged things one way or another.

[King Heffy]

Pretty sure Tampa would prefer to have Kucherov available. The other 2 probably used the same quack that assisted Hossa with faking his "allergies".

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Pretty sure Tampa would prefer to have Kucherov available. The other 2 probably used the same quack that assisted Hossa with faking his "allergies".

Still they'll waltz into a PO spot, then have a loaded roster injecting a rested, top-10 talent.

 

They get to keep their all-star cast, not bleeding assets(as any Cdn entry would wind up having to do).

 

Many posters were speculating the talent TBay would have to lose, but Van might wind up landing the most valuable piece they had to sell(18 mos back).

[mll]

6 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Pretty sure Tampa would prefer to have Kucherov available. The other 2 probably used the same quack that assisted Hossa with faking his "allergies".

Chicago would have far preferred keeping Hossa.  They got no benefit from him retiring.  Ever since he retired they have never made the playoffs, save last season as they expanded to 24 teams. 

 

He was a 26 goal scorer his last season.  They finished top of the conference.  They were only in the 2nd year of Toews and Kane massive deals.  They’ve dropped off the standings ever since.

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 minutes ago, mll said:

Chicago would have far preferred keeping Hossa.  They got no benefit from him retiring.  Ever since he retired they have never made the playoffs, save last season as they expanded to 24 teams. 

 

He was a 26 goal scorer his last season.  They finished top of the conference.  They were only in the 2nd year of Toews and Kane massive deals.  They’ve dropped off the standings ever since.

They pulled this injury(right up to PO's) routine with Kane..was it 2015?

 

League could've figured out how to cover this loophole, if it wanted to.

[Master Mind]

There's no way Kucherov would want to take a year off given his level of talent and being in his prime.

 

There's been some questionable retirements in the past (don't forget the Leafs and Robidas island) but Kuch is definitely not one of them.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Master Mind

[mll]

8 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

They pulled this injury(right up to PO's) routine with Kane..was it 2015?

 

League could've figured out how to cover this loophole, if it wanted to.

Canucks went through similar cap maneuvering to be able to add Toffoli.  Ferland likely going on LTIR and Dorsett also finished his career on LTIR.  Canucks not the only team with legit injuries.

 

Boychuk has vision damage.  He tried to play through it and got himself concussed as he couldn’t see the player coming.  He was in tears announcing his retirement.  

 

There are safeguards. Vast majority of contracts are insured and no insurance company is going to just pay.  The NHL also has independent doctors.  Playing in the NHL vs leading a normal office life does not have the same physical requirements.  

[khay]

22 minutes ago, mll said:

Chicago would have far preferred keeping Hossa.  They got no benefit from him retiring.  Ever since he retired they have never made the playoffs, save last season as they expanded to 24 teams. 

 

He was a 26 goal scorer his last season.  They finished top of the conference.  They were only in the 2nd year of Toews and Kane massive deals.  They’ve dropped off the standings ever since.

True that they needed Hossa. But it was not beneficial for Hossa to continue playing?

 

I believe Hossa had allergies, but when his salary became $1mil, it just wasn't worth dealing with it?

 

I believe that if Hossa's salary was 5 mil, then Hossa would have found a way to deal with the allergies and continue playing.

 

 

[King Heffy]

Just now, mll said:

Canucks went through similar cap maneuvering to be able to add Toffoli.  Ferland likely going on LTIR and Dorsett also finished his career on LTIR.  Canucks not the only team with legit injuries.

 

Boychuk has vision damage.  He tried to play through it and got himself concussed as he couldn’t see the player coming.  He was in tears announcing his retirement.  

 

There are safeguards. Vast majority of contracts are insured and no insurance company is going to just pay.  The NHL also has independent doctors.  Playing in the NHL vs leading a normal office life does not have the same physical requirements.  

I wouldn't blame Boychuk's vision for Matheson being a dirty piece of garbage.  Hopefully he's able to enjoy a full retirement.  Entire hockey world loses by having Kucherov sit though; I'm rooting for a full recovery ASAP.

[mll]

Just now, khay said:

True that they needed Hossa. But it was not beneficial for Hossa to continue playing?

 

I believe Hossa had allergies, but when his salary became $1mil, it just wasn't worth dealing with it?

 

I believe that if Hossa's salary was 5 mil, then Hossa would have found a way to deal with the allergies and continue playing.

 

 

The allergies got worse every year.   He had to get his blood tested every two weeks because the side effects of the medication was life threatening.   He wanted to retire and give up that money but Chicago convinced him to go on LTIR because he had a recapture contract.  

 

[khay]

12 minutes ago, mll said:

The allergies got worse every year.   He had to get his blood tested every two weeks because the side effects of the medication was life threatening.   He wanted to retire and give up that money but Chicago convinced him to go on LTIR because he had a recapture contract.  

 

I see. But somehow, that time when he decided to hang it up came exactly when his salary became 1 mil. Why not a season sooner? If he was getting blood test done every two weeks throughout the season and that it was truly life threatening -- that he could die any moment due to the side effects -- shouldn't he have quit as soon as possible? I mean wouldn't you retire ASAP if it truly were life threatening? 
 

Anyhow, I think this is cap circumvention and Chicago should have been penalized. I wonder if they knew that Hossa had this condition before they signed him to 12 year deal. Then they signed him knowing for sure Hossa won't play out the contract.  I hope Chicago Cheathawks never win a cup.

 

 

[mll]

1 minute ago, khay said:

I see. But somehow, that time when he decided to hang it up came exactly when his salary became 1 mil. Why not a season sooner? If he was getting blood test done every two weeks throughout the season and that it was truly life threatening -- that he could die any moment due to the side effects -- shouldn't he have quit as soon as possible? I mean wouldn't you retire ASAP if it truly were life threatening? 
 

Anyhow, I think this is cap circumvention and Chicago should have been penalized. I wonder if they knew that Hossa had this condition before they signed him to 12 year deal. Then they signed him knowing for sure Hossa won't play out the contract.  I hope Chicago Cheathawks never win a cup.

 

 

The allergies grew gradually so the medication had to be adjusted.  It reached a point were it was no longer tenable.  His skin was pealing off where he couldn’t even hold his kids.  Players have played hockey their whole life and many will play through considerable injury and even put themselves in harms way to continue to play.   It’s not that easy to give it up.  I don't think he wanted to step away and certainly not that way - all this scrutiny with not everyone believing him. 

 

Majority of those recapture contracts were all too long purposefully.   Gillis admitted that they saw Luongo end up on LTIR given the length of the contract.  Florida simply had other plans.

[Phil_314]

Can Loui walk into a zamboni? 

Extended press box ti-- I mean, oh no, his leg/ foot/ ankle/ hip...  

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Master Mind said:

There's no way Kucherov would want to take a year off given his level of talent and being in his prime.

 

There's been some questionable retirements in the past (don't forget the Leafs and Robidas island) but Kuch is definitely not one of them.

Not saying he's purposely doing so or not, but this year is a much shorter season. Only 5 months for the regular season. He last played on September 28 winning the Cup. He'd really only not be playing hockey for 7ish months (assuming he's back at the start of the playoffs). The non playoff teams this year have sat out longer than this (about 9 months).

 

Having one of the best players in the game be fully rested avoiding the grueling schedule coming in when the cap is no longer an issue is going to be massive for them should they be looking at a repeat.

 

So while his injury may likely be legit, one can see why things really work out for TB here. Especially when the tweet that announced it literally just said that he would miss the regular season and not out for the year.

[Drakrami]

Not gonna pretend I know how retirement/LTIR works, but from what I read Steen is still getting paid, and his 5.75mil cap hit still applies to Blue's 20/21 cap hit. 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Are we gonna pretend that there haven't been fifteen threads where we want Ferland and our boi Loui to go on LTIR

[Baer.]

You seem to forget Boychuck and Steen actually retired whereas Hossa was put on LTIR.

 

Also would you want to lose Petey for the entire year just to save some cap? Didn't think so. Kucherov is one of the best players in the league. I doubt losing him is part of any "strategy". Tampa is a worse team this year without him.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Boychuk, Steen, Kuch..the list goes on & on. They suuure leave some gaping loopholes that privileged US markets always seem to happily exploit.

Not surprised..have been predicting this ruse would occur, from months back.

 

At least a cap-system keeps team-expenditures relatively close.

 

Recall watching a Finals game(just a period or so) early millennium..Detroit was around a 100 mill & the Canes looked like an AHL star-squad(perhaps 15-20 mill total?)

Such a disgrace watching orgs buy Cups back then, in Buttman's rigged US deck.

Almost 3 decades now, they've rigged things one way or another.

Well NYR also tried to buy a few cups in the early 2000’s too... on paper at least their rosters were laughably lopsided - all-star teamesque.    Cloutier blew a tire in 2002 .... we were on the way for an epic upset.   That’s the only year they did it with a payroll a little less then it is today.  NYR surely was around that too.   
 

Prior to that Detroit teams won with middling league wide payroll.   For sure both those teams and TO played a large role in bumping players salaries to the breaking point causing the cap era to come in.   Too bad for hockey fans.   Hard to create rivalries like Detroit/COL, the battle of Alberta etc with vanilla teams around 5-8 core players (blue chip stars).     Detroit had 10 HHOFers on their 2002 lineup.    EDM sent 10 guys to the all-star game in 1986 (back when it was done properly and every team didn’t have to have automatic representation). 
 

Get salary disclosure was required to even the playing field .... but it sure didn’t end well.    Socialist franchising or market setting or whatever you want to call it didn’t do hockey any favours.   Just hope expansion is done for good.   Teams shouldn’t have to wait up to a decade to see playoff action during a down cycle.   And if a team has a better market they shouldn’t be penalized to support those that have no business still playing where they do (ARI, FLD and maybe even CAR). 

Edited December 24, 2020 by IBatch

[Chris12345]

I'm willing to bet Tampa knew it was a possibility so they planned for it but did not hope for it. That's simply good management. I doubt they conveniently elect to have their star player under surgery.

 

Don't forget about Chicago around 2007-2010? They had to swing a few unfavorable deals that were to Van's benefit so it isn't always anti Canada.

 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Not gonna pretend I know how retirement/LTIR works, but from what I read Steen is still getting paid, and his 5.75mil cap hit still applies to Blue's 20/21 cap hit. 

Once a player hits I think 35 a team is stuck with that contract no matter what happens...