EP Phone Home Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 34 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Things just work out the way they do. Say we did get Dubois, do we draft Pettersson in the following draft? Say we do with the intention of playing him on wing, do we make the trade for JT Miller? Plus the rumour was if Dubois landed on our pick, we may have dealt the pick to Montreal in a deal revolving around Subban potentially, so how would've that affected us as a team and cap-wise? Or say we got the #2 pick, would we really love Laine that much or would we grow tired of his lazy play (despite his production) and attitude? Looks like he's after a massive contract and who knows how he performs if he gets that. There is for sure a butterfly effect for if things did end up differently. We would’ve finished higher in the standings if we picked Chucky because having him on our team would’ve made us better in the standings therefor would we draft Petterson? Do we draft Hughes? And I agree that if we had the luxury of having the Laine pick would we be in the same situation as he is in with the Jets right now. Plus I don’t think he would be on the team anyways when Bo made it a team rule of NO FORTNITE. All about that Mario Kart on the flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Boy, getting him would be crazy good... of course that goes for any team so a package would have to be huge. Boeser + something else big one would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) On 1/3/2021 at 10:14 AM, -Vintage Canuck- said: Not gonna pretend I don't see Tortorella as one of the most over-rated coaches in the league - and found it both ironic and hard to take seriously when he was in the running for the Jack Adams... Gotta wonder what the 'underlying' cost of his tenure has been. First, he cost them a 2nd - to us - (thanks JT, you 'owed' us something after your really poor performance here). But what has the additional asset cost (if any) been, of the seemingly steady departure of players from Columbus? Is any / how much of that is due to poor relationships he forms with players? It's not fair to assume that Dubois leaving has Tortorella as a principal motivation, but at the same time, your head coach is effectively your primary relationship to a franchise. In fairnesss it has been pointed out that JK has a tendency to 'hardball' in negotiations with young players (maybe not the most realistic/effective approach, particularly with Columbus as the backdrop of his leverage) - but it would be interesting to know how much of the deal-breaking relationships come down to JT's ballbusting. For me - when you're openly in conflict with guys like Hartnell, etc, etc, etc..it's a recurring red flag = probably not sustainable. Edited January 6, 2021 by oldnews 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Anyone in their right mind would like Dubois.... But if there were the chance of poaching Jenner out of Columbus, damn he'd be a nice add (with Sutter expiring....) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 3:45 PM, Provost said: Boy, getting him would be crazy good... of course that goes for any team so a package would have to be huge. Boeser + something else big one would think. Boeser Gaudette Juolevi first rd pick and they prob say no or there is a better offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Id do Boeser, gaudette and a 1st for dubois in a second. Doubt Columbus would bite thoough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Not saying I would do this but just spitting random stuff out. Would Columbus take this deal: Horvat for PLD 1 for 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 3 hours ago, DontMessMe said: Not saying I would do this but just spitting random stuff out. Would Columbus take this deal: Horvat for PLD 1 for 1. rofl lol no. Dubois is younger, bigger and very possibly better. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Drakrami said: rofl lol no. Dubois is younger, bigger and very possibly better. Columbus would do it considering Dubois wants out. But Dont see why Vancouver would trade their heart and soul and captain. Bo is this teams engine. I love Dubois but Benny would not make the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 hours ago, EddieVedder said: Columbus would do it considering Dubois wants out. But Dont see why Vancouver would trade their heart and soul and captain. Bo is this teams engine. I love Dubois but Benny would not make the offer. Yea agree with you on those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 19 hours ago, Drakrami said: rofl lol no. Dubois is younger, bigger and very possibly better. wtf is this, Virtanen scored more goals then Dubois last year while having last power play time and not playing 1st line minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 15 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said: wtf is this, Virtanen scored more goals then Dubois last year while having last power play time and not playing 1st line minutes. lol, the majority of people who follows hockey will agree Dubois is better than Horvat. So I am not going to waste time to explain simple facts to you. This just makes the crowd on CDC appear ever more so biased and secluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) Friedman in his 31 thoughts says Dubois wants a bigger stage. On Insider Trading LeBrun mentions Anaheim and LA as potential destinations, they have plenty of prospects/young players that could interest CBJ. He also talks of Winnipeg as Laine wants out. He thinks that Montreal will also keep tabs on the situation. Without Dubois CBJ are really going to be light on Cs which was already a concern even before his trade request. In two years Jones is UFA. If they sense he won’t sign an extension it could influence the return CBJ are looking for. Their 2 goalies are also UFA at the same time as Jones. Could pretty much force them into a rebuild with so many holes in the lineup. Teams might want to wait for the summer when they can agree to an extension. Wonder if Seattle won’t also try and be in the mix. With the cap staying flat for the foreseeable future they could take advantage of cap strapped teams just like Vegas did and could have the assets to acquire him. Quote https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/31-thoughts-2020-21-nhl-season-step-unknown/ 3. This week’s conspiracy theory: Did you know Pierre-Luc Dubois’s father, Eric, coaches in the Winnipeg organization? (He’s an assistant for the AHL Moose.) 4. The more I’ve learned about Dubois’s situation, the more he, his agent and the Blue Jackets deserve credit for keeping it quiet as long as they did. I couldn’t understand why Columbus was worried about an offer sheet at a time teams are strapped for cash, but one player explained it: “We knew [Dubois] was thinking of leaving, if he could.” I’ve asked if the situation can be fixed, but there’s not a ton of optimism at this time. It wasn’t the negotiations, and several sources warned against putting it solely at the feet of John Tortorella. Dubois didn’t reveal much at his introductory media conference, but the aforementioned player said the feeling is Dubois wants “a bigger stage.” (In the NHL, that doesn’t always mean the biggest market.) GM Jarmo Kekalainen held onto both Sergei Bobrovsky and Artemi Panarin as UFAs-to-be; no one’s expecting him to move quickly on Dubois. Edited January 8, 2021 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 On 1/7/2021 at 10:03 AM, Drakrami said: rofl lol no. Dubois is younger, bigger and very possibly better. Dubois is younger. dubois is 3 inches taller for 3 lbs heavier than horvat, so i’d say Horvat is « bigger ». horvat is a better skater. horvat is a better leader. horvat can carry the play. horvat never had Panarin on his line feeding him points. Dubois is an excellent player, but the debate Horvat vs Dubois is much more complex than you’re making it out to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 On 1/6/2021 at 2:17 PM, oldnews said: Not gonna pretend I don't see Tortorella as one of the most over-rated coaches in the league - and found it both ironic and hard to take seriously when he was in the running for the Jack Adams... Gotta wonder what the 'underlying' cost of his tenure has been. First, he cost them a 2nd - to us - (thanks JT, you 'owed' us something after your really poor performance here). But what has the additional asset cost (if any) been, of the seemingly steady departure of players from Columbus? Is any / how much of that is due to poor relationships he forms with players? It's not fair to assume that Dubois leaving has Tortorella as a principal motivation, but at the same time, your head coach is effectively your primary relationship to a franchise. In fairnesss it has been pointed out that JK has a tendency to 'hardball' in negotiations with young players (maybe not the most realistic/effective approach, particularly with Columbus as the backdrop of his leverage) - but it would be interesting to know how much of the deal-breaking relationships come down to JT's ballbusting. For me - when you're openly in conflict with guys like Hartnell, etc, etc, etc..it's a recurring red flag = probably not sustainable. It’s a stink that’s followed him from Tampa Bay, to NYR, to Vancouver (wasn’t here long enough - but you could see some of it - like asking the Sedins to block shots, play the PK and how he burned them out by December) and in CLB. Who knows really is going on, but if he had a tough time dealing with gen x guys who do respond to draconian measure for a while at least, he’s not going to get the same with the players he has now. Hitchcock changed, and as a result prolonged his career (and had talked a fair amount on this - going from a disciplinary coach to more of a players/tactical style), maybe he has too. Can’t argue with the results though - he’s managed more then what he’s had on paper to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 hours ago, IBatch said: It’s a stink that’s followed him from Tampa Bay, to NYR, to Vancouver (wasn’t here long enough - but you could see some of it - like asking the Sedins to block shots, play the PK and how he burned them out by December) and in CLB. Who knows really is going on, but if he had a tough time dealing with gen x guys who do respond to draconian measure for a while at least, he’s not going to get the same with the players he has now. Hitchcock changed, and as a result prolonged his career (and had talked a fair amount on this - going from a disciplinary coach to more of a players/tactical style), maybe he has too. Can’t argue with the results though - he’s managed more then what he’s had on paper to work with. I wonder if Tortorella has the ability to change - I suspect he's tried, but... I think a 'disciplinary' coach can still have great relationships with players - I think being firm with players is ok if you are consistent, clear, communicate expectations, etc - but Tortorella seems to have a ballbuster edge that comes unhinged and it's hard to imagine that sells well amongst his players - particularly with the way he favours certain guys and rides others. I recall in his time here he had quite a shine for guys like Santorelli, or even Sestito - while making a whipping boy of guys like Hansen (which is downright bizarre - one thing you could never accuse Hansen of was failing to put the effort in). As for results, I'm not sure if your last line is referring to Hitchcock's results or Tortorella's, but in JT's case, I think he has done a generally poor job with the CBJ - a roster that has been teeming with talented young guys, solid veterans - a well built team imo - that I think 'should' have more to show for the past number of years. Tortorella is one of those "give me a group of young bucks" kind of coaches - (an 'easy' shopping list wadr to him - any coach would want a big, fast, talented young group) - then appears fixed on plugging those pieces into his cookie cutter (something Mike Sullivan talked about unlearning when he went to Detroit - but ironically Tortorella has had that in Columbus imo with generally meagre results - and otherwise, I'm not sure he's particularly capable of adapting to the extent necessary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 hours ago, oldnews said: I wonder if Tortorella has the ability to change - I suspect he's tried, but... I think a 'disciplinary' coach can still have great relationships with players - I think being firm with players is ok if you are consistent, clear, communicate expectations, etc - but Tortorella seems to have a ballbuster edge that comes unhinged and it's hard to imagine that sells well amongst his players - particularly with the way he favours certain guys and rides others. I recall in his time here he had quite a shine for guys like Santorelli, or even Sestito - while making a whipping boy of guys like Hansen (which is downright bizarre - one thing you could never accuse Hansen of was failing to put the effort in). As for results, I'm not sure if your last line is referring to Hitchcock's results or Tortorella's, but in JT's case, I think he has done a generally poor job with the CBJ - a roster that has been teeming with talented young guys, solid veterans - a well built team imo - that I think 'should' have more to show for the past number of years. Tortorella is one of those "give me a group of young bucks" kind of coaches - (an 'easy' shopping list wadr to him - any coach would want a big, fast, talented young group) - then appears fixed on plugging those pieces into his cookie cutter (something Mike Sullivan talked about unlearning when he went to Detroit - but ironically Tortorella has had that in Columbus imo with generally meagre results - and otherwise, I'm not sure he's particularly capable of adapting to the extent necessary. No old News - I’m referring to CLB. They have done a fair margin better then they should have both in the regular season and especially in the playoffs, upsetting some pretty great-good teams under his tutelage. PLD isnt ever going to be a top ten C. Panarin was there and gone in a blink, Bobrovsky is up and down like a yo-yo. Seth Jones is for sure a stud and Werenski has some potential but is injury prone. Their team doesn’t lineup up well against TO. Let alone PHI, PIT, Boston, TB or much else. They have overachieved with Torts which is typical his first 2-3 years .... then the other foot drops and that could be exactly what’s happening now. He’s done it in TB, he did it again with the NYR (where a lot of the leadership and veteran players came out and said they couldn’t stand him) .... I can give him the benefit of the doubt but this is for sure a red flag. He’s not Keenan bad. But he’s sure followed the plot line in a similar way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 21 hours ago, IBatch said: No old News - I’m referring to CLB. They have done a fair margin better then they should have both in the regular season and especially in the playoffs, upsetting some pretty great-good teams under his tutelage. PLD isnt ever going to be a top ten C. Panarin was there and gone in a blink, Bobrovsky is up and down like a yo-yo. Seth Jones is for sure a stud and Werenski has some potential but is injury prone. Their team doesn’t lineup up well against TO. Let alone PHI, PIT, Boston, TB or much else. They have overachieved with Torts which is typical his first 2-3 years .... then the other foot drops and that could be exactly what’s happening now. He’s done it in TB, he did it again with the NYR (where a lot of the leadership and veteran players came out and said they couldn’t stand him) .... I can give him the benefit of the doubt but this is for sure a red flag. He’s not Keenan bad. But he’s sure followed the plot line in a similar way. Couldn't disagree more. That CBJ roster has been loaded with talent - any coach should have been able to get the results out of them that Tortorella has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 46 minutes ago, oldnews said: Couldn't disagree more. That CBJ roster has been loaded with talent - any coach should have been able to get the results out of them that Tortorella has. Compared to whom exactly? Panarin, Bobrovsky and Jones have been their best blue chippers. Goalies are a tough one. Bobrovsky has been up and down his entire career. Elite one year - mediocre the next. Panarin for sure is elite. Seth Jones too. The rest? To me they aren’t much different then MIN. Some good pieces but not enough to play with the big boys in their conference, and Torts so far is following the same script his entire career. Those NYR teams weren’t elite either - aside from Lundqvist, but he squeezed the most he could out of them until he lost the room. It would be a small miracle if he manages it again with the current group. CLB has never in their entire history become relevant until recently, upsetting TB has been their best moment. Not sure what your saying - with a better coach would should they be considered at the same level as Boston, PIT, WSH, TB? Haven’t read anyone say Torts so far hasn’t helped them overachieve until recently. Again following the same script. Werenksi has promise for sure ... hope he can stay out of the infirmary for his sake. Anderson? Well one good year and now Domi is there. Domi PLD Bjorkstand Foligno Jenner Atkinson Texeier Foudy Grigerenko Not much of a top six. Jones, Werenski, Savard, Gavrikov ... not bad Kukan. Peeke.Harrington Who are those guys anyways. CLB right now looks like MIN East with less name recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, IBatch said: Compared to whom exactly? Panarin, Bobrovsky and Jones have been their best blue chippers. Goalies are a tough one. Bobrovsky has been up and down his entire career. Elite one year - mediocre the next. Panarin for sure is elite. Seth Jones too. The rest? To me they aren’t much different then MIN. Some good pieces but not enough to play with the big boys in their conference, and Torts so far is following the same script his entire career. Those NYR teams weren’t elite either - aside from Lundqvist, but he squeezed the most he could out of them until he lost the room. It would be a small miracle if he manages it again with the current group. CLB has never in their entire history become relevant until recently, upsetting TB has been their best moment. Not sure what your saying - with a better coach would should they be considered at the same level as Boston, PIT, WSH, TB? Haven’t read anyone say Torts so far hasn’t helped them overachieve until recently. Again following the same script. Werenksi has promise for sure ... hope he can stay out of the infirmary for his sake. Anderson? Well one good year and now Domi is there. Domi PLD Bjorkstand Foligno Jenner Atkinson Texeier Foudy Grigerenko Not much of a top six. Jones, Werenski, Savard, Gavrikov ... not bad Kukan. Peeke.Harrington Who are those guys anyways. CLB right now looks like MIN East with less name recognition. you've mangled their present lineup - I'd say you have 3 of that top 9 correct...you have a pair of 4th liners elevated in your lineup, you have their shutdown/matchup forwards on the 2nd line - very little resemblence to reality imo - but that, for the most part, is irrelevent. The point you made is that they overachieved - the question here is how good their lineup has been in recent years - and you are seriously underplaying the quality and depth of that roster (comparing it to Minnesota is plain off - one of the more shallow rosters, with very little viable depth in recent years - suggests you haven't paid much attention to Columbus). Edited January 9, 2021 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now