stawns Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 41 minutes ago, JM_ said: cap management. We save a 23 man roster spot and 1.025 mil for someone else. No one's claiming Hamonic without talking to his agent. If Hamonic isn't sure about his playing status, no one is going to claim him. I meant more the whole situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Just now, JM_ said: is that true? I've never heard of ltir for someone dealing with a family issue, e.g. He could be on LTIR for mental health reasons due to stress from a family situation. There is clearly some sort of issue involved where he does t want to go on LTIR, doesn’t want to enroll in the player assistance program, doesn’t want to opt out of the season… but also does t want to report to the team. In that case a suspension until he reports would be the normal course of action. Exposing the guy on waivers needs an explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) On 10/8/2021 at 5:18 PM, Rob_Zepp said: I don't...I just get so bloody annoyed at people speculating about a poor guy with a child with a life-threatening condition as if he is doing something wrong by thinking about her first. It really isn't fair and if I was moderating this board I would ban anyone who brings it up. It is pure $&!#e. Except you are just making that up as the reason right now (you know “speculating”) That has never been been said at all by anyone. He had the opportunity to opt out of the season no harm, no foul if that was the case. The league and PA negotiated a way out for players that covers players in the exact situation you have laid out. He chose not to take advantage of that offer. If that was really the reason then the way to deal with it is pretty damn simple. Player Agent: “My client signed a contract in the summer with the belief we all shared that Covid would be mostly behind us by the time the season started. Unfortunately with many jurisdictions experiencing another wave of virus, that has presented the family with significant health concerns. The player’s family is his priority so he will be opting out of the season, and hopes to return to the team when the landscape has changed.” Edited October 10, 2021 by Provost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 So if anyone claims him, he has to be a roster spot on that team and paying him and taking cap space up whether he takes 6 months or longer to return? If that is the case and they know he will be out for an extended time, nothing to lose, But if he gets claimed and plays right away Look out for posting overloads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 A US team trading for him would give up an asset for essentially a part-time player (assuming border crossings are an issue for him). By claiming him on waivers they get that part time player at no cost, potentially upgrading their RHD for 50 or so games a season. I expect he'll be claimed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: So if anyone claims him, he has to be a roster spot on that team and paying him and taking cap space up whether he takes 6 months or longer to return? If that is the case and they know he will be out for an extended time, nothing to lose, But if he gets claimed and plays right away Look out for posting overloads No…. He could be suspended until he reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Just now, Provost said: No…. He could be suspended until he reports. Can’t he be terminated if he doesn’t report? Save both parties the trouble as he can become a UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Can’t he be terminated if he doesn’t report? Save both parties the trouble as he can become a UFA. No. The CBA has distinct wording for Covid issues, which he falls under. Only thing a team can do is suspend him without salary for days he doesn't play or participate in team events (practices, travel etc). His refusal to report isn't grounds for termination, just suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Provost said: No…. He could be suspended until he reports. Not if they have agreed to his leave of absence - which has been the case up to now. They might have decided to demote him because it clears 1.125M in cap space rather than carry his full 3M if he's on a leave of absence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Googlie said: No. The CBA has distinct wording for Covid issues, which he falls under. Only thing a team can do is suspend him without salary for days he doesn't play or participate in team events (practices, travel etc). His refusal to report isn't grounds for termination, just suspension Travis did not opt out though, right? So Covid shouldn’t be the issue now, no? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: Travis did not opt out though, right? So Covid shouldn’t be the issue now, no? No he didn't opt out, it really makes me wonder why and how his mind changed so drastically since he signed a new contract? I'm trying to be respectful of the person, but, that is a very strange career decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, Googlie said: No. The CBA has distinct wording for Covid issues, which he falls under. Only thing a team can do is suspend him without salary for days he doesn't play or participate in team events (practices, travel etc). His refusal to report isn't grounds for termination, just suspension No, the Covid stuff is really specific. He had the choice to opt out. The unpaid stuff you are taking with is if a player is unable to travel due to vaccination status or gets sick. Not someone refusing to report due to Covid…. But not choosing to opt out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, mll said: Not if they have agreed to his leave of absence - which has been the case up to now. They might have decided to demote him because it clears 1.125M in cap space rather than carry his full 3M if he's on a leave of absence. That is an entirely different point that has nothing all all to do with the question I was responding to. A team claiming him doesn’t HAVE TO carry him on their active roster and pay him until he decides to report… they can suspend him. Exactly as I said. Also, they can suspend him without pay for not reporting and save 100% of his cap hit. Try again. Edited October 10, 2021 by Provost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Can’t he be terminated if he doesn’t report? Save both parties the trouble as he can become a UFA. He could be… this wasn’t noted as unconditional waivers for the purpose of termination. The team hasn’t even chosen to suspend him. The folks saying they are doing this to save some of the cap charge just don’t know the rules. Players suspended without pay do not count towards the cap at all, so they could suspend him and get full cap relief. I looked at the different rosters and couldn’t find a reason why they would “need” to have a couple of million in cap hit for Hamonic on the books to maximize Ferland’s LTIR that couldn’t also more easily be accomplished by keeping his whole cap hit and papering another player/running less than a 23 man roster. If it was cap reasons they would have done this after the start of the season having just used Hamonic’s cap hit to maximize LTIR, and then suspending him once Ferland was on LTIR. It is possible there is a trade happening that makes this make sense, but I can’t figure out any possible scenario with our current roster. Edited October 10, 2021 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Provost said: That is an entirely different point that has nothing all all to do with the question I was responding to. A team claiming him doesn’t HAVE TO carry him on their active roster and pay him until he decides to report… they can suspend him. Exactly as I said. Also, they can suspend him without pay for not reporting and save 100% of his cap hit. Try again. Do they want to suspend him though. Earlier in camp Benning said he is dealing with a personal issue and that they'll be patient. They also don't have to waive him to suspend him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegr Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 This really is getting bonkers. It’s unfortunate that Canucks have relied pretty heavily on whether this guy actually plays for us. He was our top 4 solution and now he’s a flakey as Brent Burns’ beard. If only Tryamkin made the right choice and rejoined this club. We’d be looking pretty set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Just now, mll said: Do they want to suspend him though. Earlier in camp Benning said he is dealing with a personal issue and that they'll be patient. They also don't have to waive him to suspend him. What does that have to do with whether a team claiming him has to pay him until he reports? They don’t have to waive him to suspend him, which is why waiving him to save some of his cap hit makes no sense when they could save all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, Provost said: No, the Covid stuff is really specific. He had the choice to opt out. The unpaid stuff you are taking with is if a player is unable to travel due to vaccination status or gets sick. Not someone refusing to report due to Covid…. But not choosing to opt out. I assumed, based on all the recent "talking heads " (other than Zepp) that Hamonic was unvaccinated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Provost said: What does that have to do with whether a team claiming him has to pay him until he reports? They don’t have to waive him to suspend him, which is why waiving him to save some of his cap hit makes no sense when they could save all of it. Talking of Vancouver. Can't imagine any team claiming him. Vancouver doesn't have to waive him to suspend him. Team approved absence. Full 3M on the cap if declared as non-roster. 1.125M less if demoted to the AHL. Refusal to report. Suspension - there is no cap hit regardless of whether he refused to report to the AHL or the NHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Just now, Googlie said: I assumed, based on all the recent "talking heads " (other than Zepp) that Hamonic was unvaccinated We don’t have any idea, lots of reports that it has to do with Covid protocols… but nothing official. He could be unvaccinated and the team isn’t allowing him at camp. He could be refusing to get vaccinated and refusing to report or opt out but wanting to get paid anyways. A pretty basic rule in PR is to limit damage. The only reason to not be talking and limiting damage is that if the explanation is worse than what is being speculated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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