[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Montreal Canadiens | January 21, 2021 | 6:30 p.m. PT | NBCSN, SNP

[BarnBurner]

13 minutes ago, thrago said:

I think we are close to the team we want them to be, there just not there yet.  It's coming real soon remember outside of Miller all our best players are 25 yrs old and younger.

Plus Podkolzin will be here shortly.

[thrago]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The team was already there last season, especially in the playoffs. 

 

They were composed, disciplined, capable, and focused. 

 

The team, on a whole, this year has none of those traits. Zero. 

 

Certain individuals are showing it, like Bo, but the young guns aren't. I guess, on the bright side, Pettersson and Hughes can expect a lower AAV for their next contracts. 

Well look at the core of the team after Miller and Horvat you have:

Petterson 2 full seasons

Hughes 1 full season

Boeser 3 full seasons

Guadette 1 full season

OJ in his first season

Demko 1 full season

 

Them having a rough stretch isn't really that surprising.

[Gurn]

Quick question:

Do the Canucks have their best 12 forwards dressed, as Jeff Patterson keeps saying, or do they have the 12 forwards that fit under the cap?

[DS4quality]

I feel bad for Myers. Everyone complains and complains about us being too soft and not physical enough and as soon as a 6'7 defenseman starts to play physical he gets called for everything. Then he becomes a whipping boy, when there are far more problems on the back end. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, BarnBurner said:

Plus Podkolzin will be here shortly.

Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko. All great young talent. Add Hoglander and Podkolzin to the roster and it looks even better. Hell, if Tryamkin actually returns, I'll be ecstatic. 

 

My concern is the structure that they're all either already ensconced in or will be, which is the major issue. The coaching staff is not good enough to guide these players. Pure and simple. Brown and Baumgartner are stale and have very little capability to adapt. Green looks to be heading in that direction as well. Moving on from the two assistant coaches should be the primary mission right now. Give Green some better support behind the bench. That also helps to determine if the major issue lies with them and not with the entire coaching staff.  

[Davathor]

Well, there aren't many options now, if any. 

 

Yes, some of the veteran contracts are looking terrible right now.. But they were unmoveable before the cap didn't move. Petey has been awful, along with the Rouss line. Hughes getting lit up defensively, and the goaltending been a train wreck. We're down 4 defenceman now, forwards aren't playing well and special teams are special in the wrong way. If they don't turn this around soon it's going to be a tough year.

 

Honestly for the talent and experience on the blue line, it shouldn't be this bad. It could be 3 new D learning the systems with no preseason, or an outdated system other teams have simply figured out... Because not even Hughes is looking very dynamic this year. Watching other teams zone entries and defence 5v5 has been eye opening, and the more I see the more I think we need some changes in the coaching team. Not sure why they thought a mediocre defenseman would be an outstanding defense coach. 

[-SN-]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko. All great young talent. Add Hoglander and Podkolzin to the roster and it looks even better. Hell, if Tryamkin actually returns, I'll be ecstatic. 

 

My concern is the structure that they're all either already ensconced in or will be, which is the major issue. The coaching staff is not good enough to guide these players. Pure and simple. Brown and Baumgartner are stale and have very little capability to adapt. Green looks to be heading in that direction as well. Moving on from the two assistant coaches should be the primary mission right now. Give Green some better support behind the bench. That also helps to determine if the major issue lies with them and not with the entire coaching staff.  

Mostly agreed, but I don't think you can just remove the assistant coaches at this point and keep Green.

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, thrago said:

Well look at the core of the team after Miller and Horvat you have:

Petterson 2 full seasons

Hughes 1 full season

Boeser 3 full seasons

Guadette 1 full season

OJ in his first season

Demko 1 full season

 

Them having a rough stretch isn't really that surprising.

Understood. I see your angle, but also know what those aforementioned players are capable of. OJ has been great all things considered. They pulled off something special, and while a fan knows that regression is always possible, it's the lifelessness that the team has that's most concerning. 

[PhillipBlunt]

9 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

I feel bad for Myers. Everyone complains and complains about us being too soft and not physical enough and as soon as a 6'7 defenseman starts to play physical he gets called for everything. Then he becomes a whipping boy, when there are far more problems on the back end. 

I love his physicality. It's more than welcome. Myers is the least of the team's issues.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, StealthNuck said:

Mostly agreed, but I don't think you can just remove the assistant coaches at this point and keep Green.

Is that because he chose them? If so, fair enough. However other teams have canned the assistant coaches and kept the head coach. It's happened and should be done here. It sends a message to the team that management realizes that the systems need changing, and a message to Green that he's going to need to adjust with the changes. 

[Lazurus]

34 minutes ago, CanucksForever2 said:

How many more games until we hit this, or has this been pressed already?

I think for a few posters the panic button was hit 4 years ago when all the cross messages were being sent out by Linden and Benning. The lack of trading for picks instead of spending huge amount of cap space on really old and tired vets, and then being told a rebuild? trade away picks and prospects rebuilding? What is happening now should not even be close to a panic.

A panic happens when something bad is unforseen and happens. The writing for all this was on the wall from January 2019 when there were negative reposrts on negotiations with the FA's, office management and coaches, that continued as coaches were not rehired (Maholtra), more office staff let go under the Covid reasoning and the only hire was Chris Gear, an accountant and cap guy, was hired as ASSISTANT GM, not a level he needed if he was just the accountant but a title needed if he was making management decisions or would be listened to.

So no there is no way the panic button should be an issue, only for media stories that assume fans actually thought this was a contender team even after the players walked for nothing.

 

This is the team that Jim Benning built,

it only took 7 years, so far.

 

There is no panic, this is the PLAN.

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, Davathor said:

Well, there aren't many options now, if any. 

 

Yes, some of the veteran contracts are looking terrible right now.. But they were unmoveable before the cap didn't move. Petey has been awful, along with the Rouss line. Hughes getting lit up defensively, and the goaltending been a train wreck. We're down 4 defenceman now, forwards aren't playing well and special teams are special in the wrong way. If they don't turn this around soon it's going to be a tough year.

 

Honestly for the talent and experience on the blue line, it shouldn't be this bad. It could be 3 new D learning the systems with no preseason, or an outdated system other teams have simply figured out... Because not even Hughes is looking very dynamic this year. Watching other teams zone entries and defence 5v5 has been eye opening, and the more I see the more I think we need some changes in the coaching team. Not sure why they thought a mediocre defenseman would be an outstanding defense coach. 

This in spades. His mediocrity as a player has become his mediocrity as an assistant coach. 

[xereau]

Whole team seems overcoached to me. Players double clutching because they aren't certain exactly what they're supposed to do in that exact situation, you can SEE it in a bunch of them. The worst thing yet, is the defensive zone system which was dismantled by Vegas, is still in effect. This coaching staff will never take this team to the next level, because they themselves are not next level.

[Jetliner]

defense has been the main issue since the start of Green's tenure.

Although yesterday's meltdown was likely due to player personnel or lack thereof, we would've prob still lost. or come up with another 6-5, 7-5 win.  winning while allowing an average of 4-5 goals per game is not going to be sustainable.

 

Last year we had Markstrom. who was a &^@#ing god. Obviously he's gone now and his departure has emphasized our pre-existing defensive struggles. 

 

I honestly think the coaching staff is the culprit here. Green's ok. I actually like his calm demeanor. but baumgartner has got to go. Not just because he's the defense coach, but we need someone with more experience. Perhaps someone who's been a head coach before who would embrace the role as an assistant and can really help with game management. To train players to up their defensive game and team defensive structure as a whole. 

 

I'm glad we are sucking right now during a shortened season versus a normal season. lets learn from this year. perhaps collect a high draft pick, and win when things are back to normal

[BarnBurner]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko. All great young talent. Add Hoglander and Podkolzin to the roster and it looks even better. Hell, if Tryamkin actually returns, I'll be ecstatic. 

 

My concern is the structure that they're all either already ensconced in or will be, which is the major issue. The coaching staff is not good enough to guide these players. Pure and simple. Brown and Baumgartner are stale and have very little capability to adapt. Green looks to be heading in that direction as well. Moving on from the two assistant coaches should be the primary mission right now. Give Green some better support behind the bench. That also helps to determine if the major issue lies with them and not with the entire coaching staff.  

I completely agree and it was apparent, for the most part, all last season too. 

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, xereau said:

Whole team seems overcoached to me. Players double clutching because they aren't certain exactly what they're supposed to do in that exact situation, you can SEE it in a bunch of them. The worst thing yet, is the defensive zone system which was dismantled by Vegas, is still in effect. This coaching staff will never take this team to the next level, because they themselves are not next level.

Exactly. While the defense corps isn't world beating, on paper it looks more than capable. The sense of listlessness and confusion evident in the players on the ice isn't some roster wide brain fart that all the players are sharing. I think the wise move would be to give Travis the remainder of the season, but with new assistant coaches with more experience. 

[DS4quality]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Is that because he chose them? If so, fair enough. However other teams have canned the assistant coaches and kept the head coach. It's happened and should be done here. It sends a message to the team that management realizes that the systems need changing, and a message to Green that he's going to need to adjust with the changes. 

I think it's because Green's system doesn't work without Baumgartner'. If Baumgartner changes it up, Green will have to come up with a new strategy which is hard, but not impossible during the season. 

[DIBdaQUIB]

23 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

I feel bad for Myers. Everyone complains and complains about us being too soft and not physical enough and as soon as a 6'7 defenseman starts to play physical he gets called for everything. Then he becomes a whipping boy, when there are far more problems on the back end. 

I have no problem with his physicality even if it sometimes results in a penalty...we need that edge.  On the other hand, he has been a defensive nightmare and is contributing nothing offensively.  I fear he is becoming a defenseman's version of Loui Eriksson and at 6 million is grossly overpaid.  Guys like him, Eriksson, Sutter etc. are why we had to move on from Toffoli who should have been a no brainer to re-sign.  JB has picked well but his FA signings (JT aside)  have been brutal.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, BarnBurner said:

I completely agree and it was apparent, for the most part, all last season too. 

Continuing with the same coaching staff and thinking things will improve is insanity. However, I just realized that Benning did re-sign both Baumgartner and Brown a couple of seasons back, so maybe he's incapable of seeing it either. Hopefully he does now, and has been given orders to move on from them, wishful thinking mind you.

[guntrix]

The defense isn't even playing that much different than last year, even without Tanev. People often forget that our defense was spotty at best last year too. 

 

Difference is that Markstrom's not here to stand on his head anymore.