[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Montreal Canadiens | January 23, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | CBC, SN, CITY, TVAS

[garthsbutcher]

12 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I think the irony about all the complaints about coaching - is that Green has not had enough time.

 

What that indicates, imo, is how good a coach he is - as opposed to the general assumptions that this is his 'fault'.

 

When he has time - ie a proper training camp and preseason - the team looked entirely different.

And again, they don't have the 'normal' amount of time to practice in between games - they've been playing 3 in 4 nights kind of thing.

 

It is what it is. 

 

They've had 13 players 25 and under in the lineup - and on their worst night - it was a dozen in a single game.

Combine losses of veterans like Miller, Edler, Hamonic, Benn - with young 'stars' that are struggling to finish - and it's a recipe for flirting with a lottery pick.

Healthy - and they're a reasonably competitive team that can beat anyone on any given night.

 

Personally I haven't and still don't consider the core 'ready' to win.  I think they have a good mix to be quite competitive under 'normal' and healthy circumstances....

 

But I would have probably opted to either go further "in" and moved veteran winger cap in order to either re-sign Tanev and maintain their trajectory as much as possible (Markstrom or Demko unfortunately was sealed by the e.d.) or do away with bonus cap up front this season.   I think the real window for this team lies a couple seasons in the future - so I'm not anywhere near as concerned with short term results as most people in here.  I still think the team has the pieces to be very competitive even in the short term, but they'll need to be relatively healthy at key positions (center and blueline) - they'll need the young core to sustain what they've been up to in recent years - and they'll need to tighten up without th puck and help their goaltending.

 

Very little of those challenges do I expect Green to overcome by magic wand in the present circumstances.

I'm not surprised to see things coming together slowly - and I think last night was a good sign - of a team starting to look like itself.  They worked hard, they imo 'deserved' a better result - but that's sport - and the Habs are a very good team.

I think Green has a good handle on it - and I absolutely love the amount of young talent they have - as well as the way that young talent is being developed to play the game.  The two 'greenest' young players in the lineup - Hoglander and Juolevi - are not only very talented - but showing great signs of playing the game the right way without the puck.

Green has not had enough time?

[Dumb Nuck]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I think the irony about all the complaints about coaching - is that Green has not had enough time.

 

What that indicates, imo, is how good a coach he is - as opposed to the general assumptions that this is his 'fault'.

 

When he has time - ie a proper training camp and preseason - the team looked entirely different.

And again, they don't have the 'normal' amount of time to practice in between games - they've been playing 3 in 4 nights kind of thing.

 

It is what it is. 

 

They've had 13 players 25 and under in the lineup - and on their worst night - it was a dozen in a single game.

Combine losses of veterans like Miller, Edler, Hamonic, Benn - with young 'stars' that are struggling to finish - and it's a recipe for flirting with a lottery pick.

Healthy - and they're a reasonably competitive team that can beat anyone on any given night.

 

Personally I haven't and still don't consider the core 'ready' to win.  I think they have a good mix to be quite competitive under 'normal' and healthy circumstances....

 

But I would have probably opted to either go further "in" and moved veteran winger cap in order to either re-sign Tanev and maintain their trajectory as much as possible (Markstrom or Demko unfortunately was sealed by the e.d.) or do away with bonus cap up front this season.   I think the real window for this team lies a couple seasons in the future - so I'm not anywhere near as concerned with short term results as most people in here.  I still think the team has the pieces to be very competitive even in the short term, but they'll need to be relatively healthy at key positions (center and blueline) - they'll need the young core to sustain what they've been up to in recent years - and they'll need to tighten up without th puck and help their goaltending.

 

Very little of those challenges do I expect Green to overcome by magic wand in the present circumstances.

I'm not surprised to see things coming together slowly - and I think last night was a good sign - of a team starting to look like itself.  They worked hard, they imo 'deserved' a better result - but that's sport - and the Habs are a very good team.

I think Green has a good handle on it - and I absolutely love the amount of young talent they have - as well as the way that young talent is being developed to play the game.  The two 'greenest' young players in the lineup - Hoglander and Juolevi - are not only very talented - but showing great signs of playing the game the right way without the puck.

LOL and pooping my pants.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, spur1 said:

I see the doom and gloom squad is out in full force. Maybe we should trade Petey while his value is still high. 
Relax folks... nobody is getting fired or traded yet. 

Wouldn’t be a Canucks season without that crowd.

[Petey40]

3 hours ago, iceman64 said:

I don't believe he "won't" change them, making trades has to include what we have to offer and it has to help both ways and if it doesn't work, you can't make it work, end of story, something always does come along though but sometimes just not as fast as we want it to but it does get done when the opportunity shows itself and of course I'm going to point to JT Miller, JB didn't find what he wanted and finally a deal like that shows up and he jumped on it.. so saying "won't" is a bit of a stretch no?

Funny thing with JT is everyone thought it was a joke deal but no we have a player even better than Petey, ok so it would have been nice to have before that BUT no one was obviously available but no big deal, it'll happen again, when? no idea but I still believe JB can pull something off as usual, he's even getting better at it. 

I was more talking about green rather than JB, I like JB

[Convincing John]

7 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

You think that is the sole difference?

 

and do you think our play is materially different from what was last year? We were not even in a trajectory that would have put us in the conventional playoffs. 
 

we were disjointed and disorganized then as well, nothing “changed”. Having Marky save us and covering up sins was not sustainable even last season 

You just proved my point. (Not having Marky). There was too much roster turnover. That’s why we suck right now. There is nothing wrong with Travis green. Calling for the coaches head is so uncreative and predictable. 

[ShawnAntoski]

56 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I think the irony about all the complaints about coaching - is that Green has not had enough time.

 

What that indicates, imo, is how good a coach he is - as opposed to the general assumptions that this is his 'fault'.

 

When he has time - ie a proper training camp and preseason - the team looked entirely different.

And again, they don't have the 'normal' amount of time to practice in between games - they've been playing 3 in 4 nights kind of thing.

 

It is what it is. 

 

They've had 13 players 25 and under in the lineup - and on their worst night - it was a dozen in a single game.

Combine losses of veterans like Miller, Edler, Hamonic, Benn - with young 'stars' that are struggling to finish - and it's a recipe for flirting with a lottery pick.

Healthy - and they're a reasonably competitive team that can beat anyone on any given night.

 

Personally I haven't and still don't consider the core 'ready' to win.  I think they have a good mix to be quite competitive under 'normal' and healthy circumstances....

 

But I would have probably opted to either go further "in" and moved veteran winger cap in order to either re-sign Tanev and maintain their trajectory as much as possible (Markstrom or Demko unfortunately was sealed by the e.d.) or do away with bonus cap up front this season.   I think the real window for this team lies a couple seasons in the future - so I'm not anywhere near as concerned with short term results as most people in here.  I still think the team has the pieces to be very competitive even in the short term, but they'll need to be relatively healthy at key positions (center and blueline) - they'll need the young core to sustain what they've been up to in recent years - and they'll need to tighten up without th puck and help their goaltending.

 

Very little of those challenges do I expect Green to overcome by magic wand in the present circumstances.

I'm not surprised to see things coming together slowly - and I think last night was a good sign - of a team starting to look like itself.  They worked hard, they imo 'deserved' a better result - but that's sport - and the Habs are a very good team.

I think Green has a good handle on it - and I absolutely love the amount of young talent they have - as well as the way that young talent is being developed to play the game.  The two 'greenest' young players in the lineup - Hoglander and Juolevi - are not only very talented - but showing great signs of playing the game the right way without the puck.

Good points but my opinion on the staff is just my opinion and I expect alot more from a team startegy point of view cause of the very nature of pro sports as being very structured and in the end it is about the team that can quickly adjust & adapt to the situation that will generally have a better chance of winning.  As stated the players can only control the execution of the strategy but the strategy being implemented on the ice is on the coaches - perhaps Schmidt and Hamonic are taking some time to learn how to play in Greens system (?) - who really knows cause they look very different (esp Schmidt) as oppose to there previous team (perhaps this is who Schmidt is - an avg player and Vegas just knew how to utilize his talent to help him play above his talent level ?).  Does talent in a roster make alot of difference ofcourse but it is the team strategy or sturcture being employed by the coaching staff together with the talent that determines how successful the team will be and who puts that altogether - imo, it is the staffs job?  Ofcourse, a valid argument can be argued that the players should not need to be motivated cause they are being paid to do a job but just like us working stiffs we are (also) paid to also follow our leaders/boss' directive.

 

The way they are losing right now is very concerning and I put that (mostly) on the coaches as not having a great structure around the players cause it is the staff that should set be setting expectations.    AS STATED THIS JUST MY OPINION ON WHAT I EXPECT FROM THE COACHES.

 

At this point regardless of the result, I just want to see a team that battles and plays discipline hockey on the ice by doing the basic things well and that would indicate (at the very least) some direction from the staff that something is being done....

Edited January 24, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[lmm]

4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Let's all try not to personal attack each other and focus on the content a bit more.

 

Emotions are running high but we don't have to completely devolve this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jadvt7CbH1o&ab_channel=DEVOvision like this?

[iceman64]

50 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

I was more talking about green rather than JB, I like JB

seemed to me is was aimed at JB but whatever, Both aren't exactly seasoned pro's but doing better each year.. meh.. as long as we stop building those f'ing regular season teams, I'm ok with whatever is there (within reason)

[kanucks25]

This notion that Green didn't have enough time is hilarious. You know the entire league is operating under the same conditions, right?

 

 It's not like we've had some massive turnover. We've had one change in the top-6 (Hog for TT) and one change in the top-4 (Schmidt for Tanev). That's mild when it comes to off-season changes.

 

I'm not taking the onus completely off the players because they are doing a lot of dumb things right now that the coaches obviously aren't telling them to do, but it's also the coaches' responsibility make sure the players are prepared and at their best.

Edited January 24, 2021 by kanucks25

[iceman64]

26 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Good points but my opinion on the staff is just my opinion and I expect alot more from a team startegy point of view cause of the very nature of pro sports as being very structured and in the end it is about the team that can quickly adjust & adapt to the situation that will generally have a better chance of winning.  As stated the players can only control the execution of the strategy but the strategy being implemented on the ice is on the coaches - perhaps Schmidt and Hamonic are taking some time to learn how to play in Greens system (?) - who really knows cause they look very different (esp Schmidt) as oppose to there previous team (perhaps this is who Schmidt is - an avg player and Vegas just knew how to utilize his talent to help him play above his talent level ?).  Does talent in a roster make alot of difference ofcourse but it is the team strategy or sturcture being employed by the coaching staff together with the talent that determines how successful the team will be and who puts that altogether - imo, it is the staffs job?  Ofcourse, a valid argument can be argued that the players should not need to be motivated cause they are being paid to do a job but just like us working stiffs we are (also) paid to also follow our leaders/boss' directive.

 

The way they are losing right now is very concerning and I put that (mostly) on the coaches as not having a great structure around the players cause it is the staff that should set be setting expectations.    AS STATED THIS JUST MY OPINION ON WHAT I EXPECT FROM THE COACHES.

 

At this point regardless of the result, I just want to see a team that battles and plays discipline hockey on the ice by doing the basic things well and that would indicate (at the very least) some direction from the staff that something is being done....

So it's the management's fault covid hit and we didn't get to keep TT because of it, and no pre-season to try and get line combinations and D pairings used to each other and tried out, and No Nate Schmidt against Edmonton is all their fault right? if I'm tracking with you...

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

So it's the management's fault covid hit and we didn't get to keep TT because of it, and no pre-season to try and get line combinations and D pairings used to each other and tried out, and No Nate Schmidt against Edmonton is all their fault right? if I'm tracking with you...

COVID has nothing to do with it.

 

Look at the money tied up in the bottom-6, taxi-squad, and buyouts. More than enough money to keep both Toffoli and Tanev.

[CanadianRugby]

55 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

You just proved my point. (Not having Marky). There was too much roster turnover.

[CanadianRugby]

13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

It's not like we've had some massive turnover. We've had one change in the top-6 (Hog for TT) and one change in the top-4 (Schmidt for Tanev). That's mild when it comes to off-season changes.

Forgot to mention we lost our starting goalie and team MVP.  Vancouver's defensive zone play has been bad for a long time, we just don't have a goalie bailing the guys out.

 

I like Schmidt but he's no Tanev in the defensive zone. His offensive game was said to make our breakouts better, we were supposed to spend less time in the defensive zone because of it.  That hasn't happened. 

 

I also really like Hog but he's not a viable replacement for TT. 

 

The Canucks already were having to really battle to get wins.  Every team has roster turnover, but Vancouver has (so far) shown that the changes that happened have been a significant step backwards.  

[CptCanuck16]

36 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

perhaps Schmidt and Hamonic are taking some time to learn how to play in Greens system (?) - who really knows cause they look very different (esp Schmidt) as oppose to there previous team (perhaps this is who Schmidt is - an avg player and Vegas just knew how to utilize his talent to help him play above his talent level ?).  Does talent in a roster make alot of difference ofcourse but it is the team strategy or sturcture being employed by the coaching staff together with the talent that determines how successful the team will be and who puts that altogether - imo, it is the staffs job? 

This is it exactly.  When you're on a team that plays a sound system you can essentially plug anyone in there and they'll do okay as long as they stick to the system and play as a unit. Think Detroit under Scotty Bowman. The Redwings were tops in there division for years regardless of the changes in the line up. This is because they played a very good team oriented system. The Canucks otoh, seem to play an every man for himself type of game. Probably not how TG wants it but that is how it appears from the outside looking in. Everyone is out of sync and it shows. It isn't a new problem due to the 'new guys' either. Its been an issue for 2 or 3 seasons now.  If TG was smart he'd be picking Schmidt's brain regarding VGKs system and implementing that!  As they're another club that plays a strong team game and are very hard to beat. 

[iceman64]

9 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

COVID has nothing to do with it.

 

Look at the money tied up in the bottom-6, taxi-squad, and buyouts. More than enough money to keep both Toffoli and Tanev.

oh yeah and how do you suppose losing the projected 5 mil in cap was somehow seen before it happened THIS year

[kanucks25]

6 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

oh yeah and how do you suppose losing the projected 5 mil in cap was somehow seen before it happened THIS year

What does that have to do with what I said?

 

Bad contracts have handcuffed our cap, simple as that.

Edited January 24, 2021 by kanucks25

[ShawnAntoski]

42 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

So it's the management's fault covid hit and we didn't get to keep TT because of it, and no pre-season to try and get line combinations and D pairings used to each other and tried out, and No Nate Schmidt against Edmonton is all their fault right? if I'm tracking with 

Did not say anything about Covid & etc. - just stating that the staff could had done a better job preparing the team better to play a shorten season.  The only thing in there control is preparing the team to battle by setting the expectations and strategy to be employed.   

 

Plus based on how the new players are performing it shows any roster changes will also struggle playing in the system currently being deployed by the team - imo.   

Edited January 25, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

23 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

This is it exactly.  When you're on a team that plays a sound system you can essentially plug anyone in there and they'll do okay as long as they stick to the system and play as a unit. Think Detroit under Scotty Bowman. The Redwings were tops in there division for years regardless of the changes in the line up. This is because they played a very good team oriented system. The Canucks otoh, seem to play an every man for himself type of game. Probably not how TG wants it but that is how it appears from the outside looking in. Everyone is out of sync and it shows. It isn't a new problem due to the 'new guys' either. Its been an issue for 2 or 3 seasons now.  If TG was smart he'd be picking Schmidt's brain regarding VGKs system and implementing that!  As they're another club that plays a strong team game and are very hard to beat. 

Well said and I had been saying pretty much the same thing cause it seems the coaching staff had platued with this team..

 

Currently, it is looking like this season is a washed (but a losing streak can change all that), I would hope they play the rookies more in all situations to give them that legit experience that they needed for next season...

Edited January 25, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[iceman64]

2 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Forgot to mention we lost our starting goalie and team MVP.  Vancouver's defensive zone play has been bad for a long time, we just don't have a goalie bailing the guys out.

 

I like Schmidt but he's no Tanev in the defensive zone. His offensive game was said to make our breakouts better, we were supposed to spend less time in the defensive zone because of it.  That hasn't happened. 

 

I also really like Hog but he's not a viable replacement for TT. 

 

The Canucks already were having to really battle to get wins.  Every team has roster turnover, but Vancouver has (so far) shown that the changes that happened have been a significant step backwards.  

Upon arrival the viable solution to losing TT will be gradual depending on said player named Podz, will be as fast as he adjusts to the NHL and be consistent and CHEAPER on a ELC 

 and by the way Tanev is no Schmidt at play driving either so it was a trade off, until we have the whole team playing a sound 200 ft game we will have to have top D men so obviously D is a work on thing, it's not as far along as forward BUT it will get better since I believe JB said and it's obvious anyway we need/ed upgrade there too and Tanev is only a better in his own end when he was actually on the ice and not injured which killed us and still would... 

I still bet Holtby returns to Vezina form with (Clarks help) when called upon, and by the way, have a look forward to 2 years from now when the players who were signed to mentor are gone and we have 2 more years experience... Rome wasn't built in a day man...  just saying

 

[Violator]

25 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

COVID has nothing to do with it.

 

Look at the money tied up in the bottom-6, taxi-squad, and buyouts. More than enough money to keep both Toffoli and Tanev.

Yeah we could have brought up cheap rookies and our draft picks to fill holes for a few games instead of signing plugs at inflated costs.