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(Trade) Laine to CBJ - Dubois to Jets


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5 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You think that because you haven't really thought about  the contexts.

 

First, Laine has 85 powerplay points, to Dubois 34.

 

Dubois averages 42 pts per 82 5on5.

Laine averages 47 per 82.

Gap closing already - when you adjust for padding production on man advantages.

 

Which is not to mention the production of linemates, ice times, or the fact that Laine can't kill penalties, handle dzone starts, etc.

 

Laine played with Scheifele (73 pts) and Connor (73 pts)  last season (19:25 ice time) - the vast majority of his ice time - and secondary (Wheeler 65pts), Ehlers (58pts)...

Dubois played with a melting pot of Bjorkstrand (36 pts), Foligno (31pts), Atkinson (26pts), Nyqvist (42pts), Milano (18pts)....(17:56 ice time).

Yes - the context matters - and it mitigates - not amplifies - the gap.

 

As for the man advantage production, they played a similar amount per game, 2:40 vs 3:10, so maybe Laine is just more effective, both on the man advantage and even strength.

 

You mentioned Dubois linemates and their points but failed to mentioned that Bjorkstrand had 36 in 49gms (0.74ppg) and Atkinson had 26 in 44gms (0.6ppg).

 

The year before Dubois played with Panarin, arguably the best winger in the league...he didnt fair much better, managing .74ppg.

 

Like I said, once the salary retention and Roslovic is factored in, I think this is a win for CBJ.

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8 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Winnipeg has has no trouble retaining talent over the years.

A number of Jets have wanted out, but not as many as the weather would indicate.

Meyers

Buff

Burmistrov

Trouba

Kane

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11 minutes ago, fanofvan said:

As for the man advantage production, they played a similar amount per game, 2:40 vs 3:10, so maybe Laine is just more effective, both on the man advantage and even strength.

 

You mentioned Dubois linemates and their points but failed to mentioned that Bjorkstrand had 36 in 49gms (0.74ppg) and Atkinson had 26 in 44gms (0.6ppg).

 

The year before Dubois played with Panarin, arguably the best winger in the league...he didnt fair much better, managing .74ppg.

 

Like I said, once the salary retention and Roslovic is factored in, I think this is a win for CBJ.

?

Bjorkstrand's .74 ppg = 60pts per 82 - as I pointed out - as large a gap between Laine's linemates and Dubois' than Laine and Dubois themselves.

Atkinson's .6 ppg = 49 pts per 82 - a gap of 23 pts between him and Scheifele, Connor.

So the point of what you think helps your point -  is only underlined by what was 'failed' to be mentioned - and additionally the point remains that Dubois only had the advantage of those linemates for 44 and 49 games while otherwise playing with replacement top 6 (as opposed to Laine (Scheifele and Connor played all 71 games last year).

 

Winnipeg has had 3 X 60+, 70+, 80+, 90+ pt players - not named Laine - in each of the past four seasons.

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3 minutes ago, gurn said:

Meyers

Buff

Burmistrov

You're only correct on 2 of them.

 

Buff stopped playing entirely. He played there for 8 seasons and signed an extension. 

 

Burmistrov sucked. Hard.

 

Myers, they didn't want to pay a 3rd pairing defenseman, who doesn't play defense or produce much offensively, anything more than he's worth.

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This trade only makes sense to me for the fact all 3 had requested a trade.

 

It doesn't make sense to me for multiple other reasons:

 

1.Columbus was winger heavy already, now are loaded on the wing and VERY weak at center.

2.Winnipeg was balanced, now is heavy at center and missing a winger for their top 6. 

3. Laine is probably the better player, at least a slight majority would probably say so. Dubois plays the more valuable position, but that to me might make it a straight swap deal. Don't see why Winnipeg added and if the rumour is true on retaining salary, also lose there.

4. Laine and Torts feels like a recipe for disaster. 

 

From a Columbus perspective, they likely don't receive anywhere near the same value elsewhere, but are in a weird spot for their lineup and may have moved laterilly in terms of a player in the doghouse and not wanting to be there....Maybe they flip Laine.

 

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4 minutes ago, Monty said:

You're only correct on 2 of them.

 

Buff stopped playing entirely. He played there for 8 seasons and signed an extension. 

 

Burmistrov sucked. Hard.

 

Myers, they didn't want to pay a 3rd pairing defenseman, who doesn't play defense or produce much offensively, anything more than he's worth.

A "3rd" pairing D that averaged 21:40 of ice time in 5 seasons in Winnipeg

And 35 pts per 82 games.

2-3 minutes / game of penalty killing every season (primary pk minutes), including leading the team in pk ice time in one of those seasons.

Cool story though.

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3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

How much longer is ownership going to allow Torts abrasive attitude to chase out top players from the organization?  He's a fossil from another era and seemingly can't relate to today's stars.  

 

Does anyone think Laine is going to change his attitude in CBJ with Torts riding his backside?  

 

Jets win this trade.  Duby wanted to get away from Torts, not from CBJ.  Centermen like him are few and far between. 

Blue Jackets have been competitive the last few seasons, gotta give him that. 

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1 minute ago, Drakrami said:

Blue Jackets have been competitive the last few seasons, gotta give him that. 

In the past 4 years, there have been 5 x 60+ pt seasons - combined.  Panarin 2x, Atkinson 2x, Dubois 1.

 

The Jets have had 15.

 

The Tortorella effect.

 

As it was when he was here.  Top to bottom, virtually everyone on the roster had career worst seasons.

1 x 50 pt player (Henrik) in Torturefella's season here.   I mean people hated WD - but he took that group and got 101 pts out of it (and 2 x 70+, plus 1 x 60+ pt season).

 

Tortorella has had lineups like this:

 

Panarin

Dubois

Atkinson

Duchene

Anderson

Jenner

Bjorkstrand

Foligno

Wennberg

Dubinsky

Dzingel

Nash

Milano

Texier

 

Jones

Werenski

Murray

Savard

Nutivaara

Harrington

Kukan

Carlsson

 

Bobrovsky

Korpisalo

 

He's won one round of playoffs with them....

Any coach could/would/should be 'competitive' with groups like that.

They've underachievd under him.

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29 minutes ago, gurn said:

A number of Jets have wanted out, but not as many as the weather would indicate.

Meyers

Buff

Burmistrov

Trouba

Kane

Buff loved it in Winnipeg. But it came to a head over an injury that wasn’t reported at the end of the season.

 

Trouba wanted to go to NY. That has happened with a bunch of players (Panarin, Vesey, Fox, etc.). It’s not unique to Winnipeg.

 

...Burmistrov :lol:

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35 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Maybe look at the list of players to ask for trades under torts and cite their reasons.

 

Everyone from St Louis to Dubois.

 

Go on now call them all entitled

Did you look at that list?

Good thing that the 03-04 Hart, Art Ross, Bud light plus minus, Lester B Pearson, Stanley cup winner Martin St. Louis didn’t quit on his team or pout his way out of Tampa bay because he got yelled at.

Oh and here’s another little tidbit about that St Louis guy and Tortorella’s relationship https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.foxsports.com/ohio/story/john-tortorellas-connection-martin-st-louis-runs-deep-011317%3famp=true

37F3920C-E3B0-4635-A807-DBA226A91A9F.png

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Columbus wins the trade talent-wise but created a big hole at center, which will be tougher for them to fill than it will be for the Jets to make up for Laine's departure.  Overall, fair deal for both sides although I suspect the Blue Jackets aren't done.

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56 minutes ago, Tower102 said:

This trade only makes sense to me for the fact all 3 had requested a trade.

 

It doesn't make sense to me for multiple other reasons:

 

1.Columbus was winger heavy already, now are loaded on the wing and VERY weak at center.

2.Winnipeg was balanced, now is heavy at center and missing a winger for their top 6. 

3. Laine is probably the better player, at least a slight majority would probably say so. Dubois plays the more valuable position, but that to me might make it a straight swap deal. Don't see why Winnipeg added and if the rumour is true on retaining salary, also lose there.

4. Laine and Torts feels like a recipe for disaster. 

 

From a Columbus perspective, they likely don't receive anywhere near the same value elsewhere, but are in a weird spot for their lineup and may have moved laterilly in terms of a player in the doghouse and not wanting to be there....Maybe they flip Laine.

 

I agree

I think the best thig for both teams is to move Laine and Dubois to NY , California, Tampa or Vegas asap. Dubois might do well in Montreal and Laine could be ok in Boston, but this looks like the start of diminishing returns for both teams.

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58 minutes ago, Tower102 said:

This trade only makes sense to me for the fact all 3 had requested a trade.

 

It doesn't make sense to me for multiple other reasons:

 

1.Columbus was winger heavy already, now are loaded on the wing and VERY weak at center.

2.Winnipeg was balanced, now is heavy at center and missing a winger for their top 6. 

3. Laine is probably the better player, at least a slight majority would probably say so. Dubois plays the more valuable position, but that to me might make it a straight swap deal. Don't see why Winnipeg added and if the rumour is true on retaining salary, also lose there.

4. Laine and Torts feels like a recipe for disaster. 

 

From a Columbus perspective, they likely don't receive anywhere near the same value elsewhere, but are in a weird spot for their lineup and may have moved laterilly in terms of a player in the doghouse and not wanting to be there....Maybe they flip Laine.

 

I think the last point is the reason why CBJ will lose this deal. I can already see Torts benching Laine and refusing to answer to the reporters in the press conference.

 

WPG now has one of the best center depth in the NHL and they are still loaded on the wing with Wheeler, Ehlers, and Connor. Vezina winning goalie. Revamped defence, still a work in progress but this team has so much promise. I'd pick Winnipeg to come out of the North division. If they miss the playoffs or underachieve in the playoffs, Paul Maurice will and should be let go.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, oldnews said:

In the past 4 years, there have been 5 x 60+ pt seasons - combined.  Panarin 2x, Atkinson 2x, Dubois 1.

 

The Jets have had 15.

 

The Tortorella effect.

 

As it was when he was here.  Top to bottom, virtually everyone on the roster had career worst seasons.

1 x 50 pt player (Henrik) in Torturefella's season here.   I mean people hated WD - but he took that group and got 101 pts out of it (and 2 x 70+, plus 1 x 60+ pt season).

 

Tortorella has had lineups like this:

 

Panarin

Dubois

Atkinson

Duchene

Anderson

Jenner

Bjorkstrand

Foligno

Wennberg

Dubinsky

Dzingel

Nash

Milano

Texier

 

Jones

Werenski

Murray

Savard

Nutivaara

Harrington

Kukan

Carlsson

 

Bobrovsky

Korpisalo

 

He's won one round of playoffs with them....

Any coach could/would/should be 'competitive' with groups like that.

They've underachievd under him.

 

The fact that that one win came against Tampa in a manner of a sweep, was a curse for the Blue Jackets.

 

2 top pairing defence, Vezina winner, a depth of forwards with game breaker in Panarin with just one win to show for.

 

Hated Torts when he was here, I'm glad we fired him after just one season. There should have been playoff games in 2014 in Vancouver.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Baer. said:

Why? 40 goal scorer for 50 point center?

lol laines defensive game sucks big time, PLD is a leader and overall just a great 2 way game, kinda like horvat.

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