Stop overvaluing 1st round picks - they are JUST a pick.

[Dazzle]

This team has a toxic fanbase.  If you go around the boards around the league, our fanbase is usually disrespected by others. Why? Because we whine like babies. This has to change. Fact: We are, in general, no more 'knowledgeable' about hockey than other fanbases just because we whine about our picks and say stuff like SHOULDA DRAFTED KOPITAR.

 

...Which goes into my next point: Stop overvaluing 1st round picks - they are JUST a pick. Every team has practically whiffed on a pick. If you look at ARZ, they have been continually whiffing on 1st round picks, which has hindered their team.

 

It's 2014. newly hired Benning makes his big splash by drafting a highly touted Jake Virtanen. Here were the rankings for him. (Source: https://editorinleaf.com/2014/06/23/2014-nhl-draft-profile-jake-virtanen/)

Corey Pronman (ESPN): 11

International Scouting Services: 7

Future Considerations: 10

Central Scouting – North American Skaters: 6

Craig Button (TSN): 43

Hockey Prospect: 18 

Bob McKenzie (TSN): 8

As you can see here, even the great Bob Mckenzie thought Virtanen was worth an 8th overall pick. Central Scouting put him exactly at 6. Button makes a weird guess at the time that he's ranked 43. He's proven correct that he'd disappoint. Yes, Ehlers and Nylander were available. But so was Dal Colle (another very high first round pick). Let's see who else 'disappointed'

 

Bennett (# 4) - CAL - a serviceable player, but definitely not worth a # 4 pick in hindsight.

Dal Colle (# 5) - already mentioned - huge disappointment to say the least.

Haydn Fleury (# 7) - CAR - serviceable 6/7 defenceman.

Nick Ritchie ( # 10) - ANA - largely overrated by Canucks fanbase, only slightly better than Virtanen.

Brendan Perlini (# 12) - PHX/ARZ - another disappointing pick for this franchise.

 

2014 Entry Draft

 

 

The point is: if anyone knew how players would pan out, why would a GM pick a dud? Drafting is ONLY an educated guess. Development/circumstances can strongly influence how a player will pan out. It's a lot harder to draft someone ahead of time than to make an analysis after the fact, especially many years after the fact. 

Look at COL - for all the praise they get for drafting, they got NOTHING out of Conner Bleackley. (He's an ECHL player). They missed out on Pastrnak.

Look at NYI - they had two first round picks and missed out on BOTH players.

Therefore, there was and still isn't a guarantee that Ehlers or Nylander would have succeeded in Vancouver anymore than Virtanen.

 

Now, look at 2015.

Disappointments: Dylan Strome # 3 (could've picked Marner, Hanifin, Werenski). Lawson Crouse #11

Boston has THREE first round picks, and they pretty much missed on each of those picks. They missed out on Barzal, Connor. Minnesota flubbed on Eriksson-Ek, and missed out on hometown boy Brock Boeser.

Noah Juulsen - was HUGELY overrated on these boards, his stock slipped and he's recently been given up by MTL.

The great Evgeny Svechnikov has been greatly overshadowed by his brother now.

PHX/ARZ with ANOTHER missed 1st round pick.

I think these two drafts will adequately point out that this board is guilty of overvaluing first round picks (as was the case with the J.T. Miller trade). I could pull up all the posts that condemned this trade originally, yet many of these complainers have either stayed quiet or has backtracked from their original position).

This fanbase has a guilty conscience of trying to rewrite history. It seems to have a victim complex of trying to blame others for their problems. We have heard no shortage of "fire Nonis/Gillis/Benning/Green".

After we fire these people, what next?

It seems no amount of success by ANY Canucks management is ever enough. Did you know that the Buffalo Sabres are dangerously approaching their 10th season missing the playoffs?

What players have they drafted? Let's ignore the recent drafts and go back to 2017.

Casey Middelstadt - 8th overall pick. Another possible 'disappointment' pick. In fact, the entire year might possibly be a total miss.

2016 - EMPTY.

2015 - Jack Eichel - currently their best player. But who else does he have supporting him?

2014- Sam Reinhart - good player.

 

But remember, prior to this season, they have missed the playoffs NINE consecutive times.

 

2020 Entry						NHL Totals
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	8	1	Jack Quinn	R	Ottawa 67's [OHL]
2020 Entry	34	2	John Peterka	R	Munich EHC [DEL]
2020 Entry	131	5	Matteo Costantini	C	Buffalo Jr. Sabres [OJHL]
2020 Entry	193	7	Albert Lyckasen	D	Linkopings Jrs. (Sweden)
2020 Entry	216	7	Jakub Konecny	C	Sparta Jrs. (Czech)
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	7	1	Dylan Cozens	C	Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]	5	1	1	2	0
2019 Entry	31	1	Ryan Johnson	D	Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL]
2019 Entry	67	3	Erik Portillo	G	Frolunda [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	102	4	Aaron Huglen	R	Fargo Force [USHL]
2019 Entry	143	5	Filip Cederqvist	L	Vaxjo HC [SweHL]
2019 Entry	160	6	Lukas Rousek	F	Sparta Praha [Czech]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	1	1	Rasmus Dahlin	D	Frolunda HC [SweHL]	146	13	71	84	74
2018 Entry	32	2	Mattias Samuelsson	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
2018 Entry	94	4	Matej Pekar	L	Muskegon Lumberjacks [USHL]
2018 Entry	117	4	Linus Cronholm	D	Malmo-2 (Sweden Jrs.)
2018 Entry	125	5	Miska Kukkonen	D	Ilves-2 (Finland Jrs.)
2018 Entry	187	7	William Worge-Kreu	D	Linkoping-2 (Sweden Jrs.)
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	8	1	Casey Mittelstadt	C	Green Bay Gamblers [USHL]	114	17	22	39	14
2017 Entry	37	2	Marcus Davidsson	C	Djurgardens IF [SweHL]
2017 Entry	54	2	Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen	G	HPK [Finland-Jr]
2017 Entry	89	3	Oskari Laaksonen	D	Ilves [Finland-Jrs]
2017 Entry	99	4	Jacob Bryson	D	Providence College [H-East]
2017 Entry	192	7	Linus Weissbach	L	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	8	1	Alexander Nylander	R	Mississauga Steelheads [OHL]	84	13	19	32	14
2016 Entry	33	2	Rasmus Asplund	C	Farjestads BK Karlstad [SweHL]	30	1	2	3	6
2016 Entry	69	3	Cliff Pu	R	London Knights [OHL]
2016 Entry	86	3	Casey Fitzgerald	D	Boston College [H-East]
2016 Entry	99	4	Brett Murray	L	Carleton Place Canadians [CCHL]
2016 Entry	129	5	Philip Nyberg	D	Linkoping Jrs (Sweden)
2016 Entry	130	5	Vojtech Budik	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2016 Entry	159	6	Brandon Hagel	L	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]	3	0	0	0	0
2016 Entry	189	7	Austin Osmanski	D	Mississauga Steelheads [OHL]
2016 Entry	190	7	Vasili Glotov	C	SKA Jrs (Russia)
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	2	1	Jack Eichel	C	Boston University [H-East]	359	137	206	343	136
2015 Entry	51	2	Brendan Guhle	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]	59	4	10	14	24
2015 Entry	92	4	Will Borgen	D	Moorhead (Minn. H.S.)	4	0	0	0	0
2015 Entry	122	5	Devante Stephens	D	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]
2015 Entry	152	6	Giorgio Estephan	C	Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]
2015 Entry	182	7	Ivan Chukarov	D	Minnesota Wilderness [NAHL]
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	2	1	Sam Reinhart	C	Kootenay Ice [WHL]	405	111	147	258	80
2014 Entry	31	2	Brendan Lemieux	L	Barrie Colts [OHL]	135	19	17	36	244
2014 Entry	44	2	Eric Cornel	R	Peterborough Petes [OHL]
2014 Entry	49	2	Vaclav Karabacek	R	Gatineau Olympiques [QMJHL]
2014 Entry	61	3	Jonas Johansson	G	Brynas (Sweden Jrs.)	7	0	0	0	0
2014 Entry	74	3	Brycen Martin	D	Swift Current Broncos [WHL]
2014 Entry	121	5	Max Willman	L	Williston-Northampton (Mass. H.S.)
2014 Entry	151	6	Christopher Brown	F	Cranbrook Kingston (Mich. H.S.)
2014 Entry	181	7	Victor Olofsson	L	MODO (Sweden Jrs.)	65	24	26	50	8

I think as a fanbase, we need to start re-evaluating how we behave on these boards. There's too much of a victim complex and a lack of maturity. Teams go up and down, especially COL. They were underperforming before these two years. Let's just see where the chips lay. Stop overreacting. FIring everyone is something that the team can decide to do after this season, if need be.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Dazzle

[brownky]

I agree with you on most of what you've said, particularly the overvalue of the picks. Picks are a 'future asset'. That's all they are.

 

Where I don't agree is the comparison to any other team. I genunely don't give a ***k how another franchise (except Columbus, who I am also a fan of) decides to run things. It does not matter one iota if they think missing the playoffs 5-6-7 years in a row is fine.

 

I know that I'm not okay with it. I understand it's going to happen to the best and worst of teams at some point, but demanding "more" until the goal is reached is the only way to get there. I want Vancouver to have a cup. Anything less is ultimately failure, so everything should be going towards that goal. If it means popular players, picks, whatever have to be moved on to get there, so be it. The cup is what matters, at least to me. Other people might be okay with an exciting team that will never go anywhere. If that's the case, the Leafs and Oilers are that way --->

 

Comparing us to Buffalo or Arizona or indeed anybody else is not 'relevant'.

[King Heffy]

When your so-called "misses" still turn into NHLers, that's a sign of success.

[AV.]

This would be a better argument if the teams you mentioned (Avalanche, Coyotes, Islanders) were still persisting with the same front offices in 2021 that they did in 2014 like we are.

 

It's been 7 years of trash hockey in Vancouver.  We don't need to wait for the end of the season because we've had more than half of a decade to see what the decision-makers of this team can do.  It's not good enough and little moments of brilliance here and there are unacceptable.

 

 

[NHL'er]

I mean we don't have Patrick White to criticise anymore so... 

[drummer4now]

Yes but we are not the Arizona Coyotes.. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

This team would be in deep, deep, horse**** without two certain first round picks by Benning.

[thejazz97]

so let’s just keep trading all our picks then. obviously not worth it and we can get players who already developed. can save money by firing half the amateur scouting department as well

[Nuxfanabroad]

@Dazzle Thanks for that comprehensive lesson for the whiners.

 

This might not be an easy season, for a variety of reasons..but there's just no appreciation for the talented youth/relative success we've enjoyed over the last 5, 6 months.

 

Prob a good time for a lil' CDC-break.

[Smashian Kassian]

1st round picks have never been more valuable than in the modern NHL. 

[Zhukini]

Yup, first round picks don’t matter if you can draft outside them.

 

The Canucks have had 2 players turn out in 6 drafts outside of round 1. 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

? Dal Colle was never available. He was selected the pick before Virtanen.

While I agree that this fan base overreacts a lot, the majority of Canadian fanbases are the same (just look at Toronto).

The draft has always been a crapshoot and I think it's just this idea of having that brand new, shiny toy to play with that goes into the mind of this fanbase.

 

However, this was a pretty interesting analysis. 

 

 

 

 

[Tracksuit]

Yeah over pay ufas way better than Building through the draft.

cap era picks how you build long term. 
 

FYI the only steady nhl  picks from JBs time here came from the first rounder.
brilliant. 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Tracksuit

[Dumb Nuck]

I’m still drinking after our loss but I made it to the 12th word and completely disagree.

[Convincing John]

56 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

1st round picks have never been more valuable than in the modern NHL. 

It’s pretty much the most valuable asset you have. Not only is it completely free, but that pick comes with an entry level contract and nearly a decade of full control. The Benning regime has been pretty good overall in the first round which also adds to the value of the pick. MG didn’t give a crap about his cause he couldn’t draft anyway. 

[Tracksuit]

2 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

It’s pretty much the most valuable asset you have. Not only is it completely free, but that pick comes with an entry level contract and nearly a decade of full control. The Benning regime has been pretty good overall in the first round which also adds to the value of the pick. MG didn’t give a crap about his cause he couldn’t draft anyway. 

Mg drafted Horvat 

his two top ten were Horvat and Hodgson who was the consensus  pick and looked unreal at the wjc that year. 
Most of his picks came from the late first rd because his team was built to win.

Most of Jb picks  been top ten and he had a far better scouting staff. judd did a great job finding us diamonds Gillis had delarone who was terrible. 
cap era changed the value of picks to since buying established stars cost way more than developing them. 
Draft develop = long term success 

cap friendly 

and tradable when you’ve build up DEPTH from with in there fire not needing to over pay worn out veteran plugs. 
 

but yeah picks are overrated. 
 

 

[Dazzle]

27 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

? Dal Colle was never available. He was selected the pick before Virtanen.

While I agree that this fan base overreacts a lot, the majority of Canadian fanbases are the same (just look at Toronto).

The draft has always been a crapshoot and I think it's just this idea of having that brand new, shiny toy to play with that goes into the mind of this fanbase.

 

However, this was a pretty interesting analysis. 

 

 

 

 

Judging from how almost everyone responded, my point was not seen because people wanted to put in their snarky comments.

 

It's not that first round picks are useless. That wasn't my message at all. My main point was that this fanbase overreacts on everything, including first round draft picks. Lots of people were raging over the fact that a single first round pick was traded, even though it was going to be a mid to late first rounder. Those same people stayed quiet after Miller proved his worth. Unsurprisingly, the toxic members of fans have returned again like vultures.

 

The fact that people read (or misread) this thread shows a clear lack of critical thinking and reading comprehension. Looks like we'll never get past grade 2.

 

So done with this board. Garbage fanbase.

 

 

[Noble 6]

How do people still get butthurt over this. Every team makes mistakes and every team get's trash talked by 30 other fanbases. 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

27 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Judging from how almost everyone responded, my point was not seen because people wanted to put in their snarky comments.

 

It's not that first round picks are useless. That wasn't my message at all. My main point was that this fanbase overreacts on everything, including first round draft picks. Lots of people were raging over the fact that a single first round pick was traded, even though it was going to be a mid to late first rounder. Those same people stayed quiet after Miller proved his worth. Unsurprisingly, the toxic members of fans have returned again like vultures.

 

The fact that people read (or misread) this thread shows a clear lack of critical thinking and reading comprehension. Looks like we'll never get past grade 2.

 

So done with this board. Garbage fanbase.

 

 

I agree. 

If you want something, you need to also give up something.

One thing I remember finding funny is how this fanbase treated Miller like he was some ancient and worn out player when we traded for him.

He was only 26 which is still very young. For some reason, the fans seem to think that only 18-22 year olds are acceptable and then start some sort of age cutoff. 

 

However, it is not wrong for people to be inclined to disagree with you.

Some people might make "snarky" or sarcastic comments but you shouldn't take those personally. 

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Zhukini said:

Yup, first round picks don’t matter if you can draft outside them.

 

The Canucks have had 2 players turn out in 6 drafts outside of round 1. 

Hoglander

Demko

Gaudette