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Jim Benning, An Excellent Evaluator of Talent, BUT NO GM!

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20 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

It wasn't just a lot of fans that were upset with this offseason. 

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This is a very good talking point right here.  Horvat, Miller, Petterson, our best remaining players were shocked and unhappy about the off-season moves.

YES THAT MAKES SENSE! because so many of us are disappointed as well!   they gutted this team in the off-season and thought they could take a step forward?

Yes economics forced us to let them go, but we needed to keep these guys through good GM work,  he focused on the OEL deal and let all our important assets walk. Which really put a damper on things.

 

I think most of us thought Demko was ready to be a dominant league force based on the Vegas series. That's not the case. Markstrom is the Vezina caliber one. Markstrom and Tanev, were the backbone of the team. Stecher is a heart and soul player and glue guy. 

Those guys were HUGELY important to the team and locker room. We tried to replace them with mercenary free agents.  

 

I wish that we could have them back.  But it's a business and we probably would've lost Markstrom to Seattle in the exp. draft anyway.

The financial uncertainty played such a big part in of all of this.

 

There is so much grey area that the average fan is not able to see or privy to. 

 

It's a shortened season, so this actually was probably the best time to do a mini-reboot and see what the young guys can do

it's a contract year coming up for Hughes and Petterson and we needed to see how far along this group really is.

We need to see if these guys are really $10m/year players

And now it looks like we will be able to get both of them for $6-7.5m/per year. So that's good news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ms.Glitter
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Why don't we just breath.   Go have a walk.   Maybe watch some old games or something.   Bergevin has been crucified by the Habs media for years - made some crazy and questionable moves over the years, and never see his name as a top ten GM in the league.   Fortunately for them, they've got something going now...aside from Vegas and TB, more second liners and middle six guys then anyone and they have a distinct cap disadvantage given they are amongst the highest taxed teams in the league.   

 

JB - as well as any GM, isn't perfect.  However - he's one of the hardest working ones (same as TG as far as coaches go - if you don't know his then spend some time and do the research into how he got the job in the first place, like Roger Nielsen - he was a trend setter in analog zone and exit entries before they were even a thing) ... I don't want a big name - i want a cup and has beens are just that.   Guess the difference between me and some on this site - is i can stomach losing after winning for the future of the club.   Perspective matters.    We had the fourth best run in franchise history despite being outplayed.   TG and the coaching staff knew they'd have to go to those cringeworthy lengths to give us a chance (giving up possesion and retracting to a five man box - and going for the counter attack).   Ive watched bad or mediocre coaches before - TG isnt one of them.   

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11 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It blows my mind to think that Chia and Jimbo built a Stanley Cup winning team together (BOS). How the heck did that happen?

It's probably got something to do with whoever is running Boston's amateur scouting...

 

From 2014 to 2018 drafts, the everage pick outside the top 10 has played 19.77 games. Boston have managed an average of 54.94.

 

JB has an average of 12.6 and Chiarelli had 11.76 at Edmonton. Not much above league average COMBINED.

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1 hour ago, EagleShield said:

It's probably got something to do with whoever is running Boston's amateur scouting...

 

From 2014 to 2018 drafts, the everage pick outside the top 10 has played 19.77 games. Boston have managed an average of 54.94.

 

JB has an average of 12.6 and Chiarelli had 11.76 at Edmonton. Not much above league average COMBINED.

Source please.   And range of years.   League "average" is 1.2 NHLers per draft that stick.   Each round also has a median.   As does the first round to about 22-24th overall (after that the past decade second rounders have the same success rate).    Based on THNs system, which IMO is one of the best because it factors in ADP - or average draft position...where we were at 7 over a five year span not including the last draft ... we drafted like we averaged 3rd overall every year over a five year period..and had all our picks.     Which puts JB at around 8-9th best in the league.   EDM on the other hand, drafts like they are dead last although that's probably about to change.    TB,  who has drafted consistently near the end of the draft - managed the 9th best group of 21 and unders.   They take the average ranking of some of the most recognized and scouts in the NHL while doing this.   In other words they are the cream of the crop - not us.   We however, because we drafted where we did and did so well, ended up with one of the best young group in the league as a result.   Not the best - just the 2nd or 3rd....good grief.   

 

Doesn't matter who is doing the work - JB gets the recognition for better or worse- and it's insane to single him out as a bad drafter.     Just curious - who has done a better job at it over our 50 year history?   And also remember - when doing this analysis, only take a similar sample size.    Only one GM matches up,  and i was in grade school back then.  

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Really?   We could match up with veteran teams like Vegas, TB - or even Boston, WSH without LE, Sutter, Beagle and AR (two of which helped us be the best face off team in the playoffs- not that it mattered much as we weren't a good possession team).   Who exactly would you put into that lineup instead if we didn't have these guys?   Even if somehow we managed to get Stone and not Vegas - it's not enough to be contenders right now.   The core is way too young to do that.   Only CHI managed a cup since the cap with their future stars on their ELCs - Toews final year.    Yes we had a good run - no we are not contenders - and wouldn't be now even with the extra 6-9 million in cap space.   Not until EP, QHs and BB put the type of effort and play in that Horvat is now - and there usually takes TIME.    Something a fair amount of posters don't seem to get .   CAR is on their 3rd core since their cup.   Faulk is gone ... OEL is still around..when was COL last a contender?   15 years ago or more...  the team has shown it can dominate good teams ... it's also shown it can suck for long stretches.    We won't have a window until the core grows up and more is added.   

All I can say is you're wrong. Petey, Hughes and Marky were all stars last year. Advanced stats wise they were all up there with the best. "Only CHI managed a cup since the cap with their future stars on their ELCs". Why can't the Canucks do this? It's not like the favourites even win each year. I could bring up tons of underdogs who won the cup. I'm not saying the Canucks are for sure cup contenders, but they do have a chance if they built their roster a bit different. "We won't have a window until the core grows up and more is added." The roster could have already been bolstered if Benning didn't sign ridiculous contracts. Look at the Avs they got a young team. It's like saying they aren't contenders until Makar, Mackinnon and Rantanen are older. Sakic added good pieces to their team and they haven't had the best playoff success, but they're for sure cup contenders. "when was COL last a contender? 15 years ago or more...". You do not know your hockey as well as you think if you don't think Colorado is contenders. Your points are weak and are based on assumptions. Don't reply if you can't make any valid points... what a waste of my time. 

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13 hours ago, Provost said:

When rating Benning’s draft prowess... we can use a “control group” to look at who we would have had each 1st round if we didn’ bother to do our own scouting at all and just picked the highest ranked player available off the ISS board when we selected, or looked back at MyNHLDraft which shows all the major draft ranking lists at the time of the draft:

 

2014 - We would have ended up with Nylander instead of Jake by following ISS.  This one has an odd year as different rankings had a wide range of opinions but the weighted consensus rankings gives us Perlini or Ehlers depending on which rankings you include. Only one notable ranking had Jake as high as 6th and several had him way later.  Interestingly, we still end up with McCann either way and he isn’t playing with us so he can be ignored.  We do better with this pick by just listening to the draft boards.

 

2015 - We end up with Konecny over Boeser from ISS.  I think this one is pretty much a wash.  Their numbers are pretty comparable.  I think they are both good picks late in the round who have outperformed their draft position.

 

2016 - We end up with Matthew Tkachuk over Juolevi based on ISS.  I think it is fair to say we do better by listening to them on this one.

 

2017 - We have Vilardi instead of Petterson based on ISS.  That would have been tragic.  The only other possible pick just based on weighting other draft ranking boards would be taking Glass.  Only one serious draft board had Petterson to be picked in that spot, most had him 7-13th.

 

2018 - ISS has us taking Wahlstrom over Hughes.  Most of the rest of the boards give either Hughes or Wahlstrom in that spot.  I think it is safe to say that Benning wins this one over the ISS board.  The other draft rankings gave a consensus pick of Hughes so we could have ended up with him either way by listening to the field.

 

The 2019/20 drafts we can’t really rate as it is way too early.

 

In the end the difference is:

 

Virtanan, Boeser, Juolevi, Petterson, Hughes

 

instead of:

William Nylander, Konecny, Matthew Tkachuk, Vilardi, Wahlstrom 

 

Benning definitely beats the ISS board I think by having taken the two best players in the bunch he beats the consensus boards by a little less as he probably still ends up with Hughes, but has Glass instead of Petterson.

 

I don’t think it points to the genius leave that some are professing though.

He missed on 2, is a wash on 1, and beats two (he beats these two by a lot, at least so far).

 

Edit.  An interesting note is following Craig Button’s list for highest available player left to us when we drafted  gives us:

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes
 

We miss on Petterson, but probably end up better overall with Buttons picks overall than Benning.  

 

Tkachuk-Horvat-Ehlers

Kempe-XX- Boeser

XX-Glass-XX

Thank you for this, I've been looking for this type of comparison for awhile. I actually mentioned this idea on a different thread today.

Suggesting that if Central Scouting is better, the Canucks either need better scouting or fold the scouting dept, use the Central list and spend the saved money on player development.

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54 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Source please.   And range of years.   League "average" is 1.2 NHLers per draft that stick.   Each round also has a median.   As does the first round to about 22-24th overall (after that the past decade second rounders have the same success rate).    Based on THNs system, which IMO is one of the best because it factors in ADP - or average draft position...where we were at 7 over a five year span not including the last draft ... we drafted like we averaged 3rd overall every year over a five year period..and had all our picks.     Which puts JB at around 8-9th best in the league.   EDM on the other hand, drafts like they are dead last although that's probably about to change.    TB,  who has drafted consistently near the end of the draft - managed the 9th best group of 21 and unders.   They take the average ranking of some of the most recognized and scouts in the NHL while doing this.   In other words they are the cream of the crop - not us.   We however, because we drafted where we did and did so well, ended up with one of the best young group in the league as a result.   Not the best - just the 2nd or 3rd....good grief.   

 

Doesn't matter who is doing the work - JB gets the recognition for better or worse- and it's insane to single him out as a bad drafter.     Just curious - who has done a better job at it over our 50 year history?   And also remember - when doing this analysis, only take a similar sample size.    Only one GM matches up,  and i was in grade school back then.  

Range of years: 2014 (JB's first year) - 2018 (as only 13 players drafted after then have played in the NHL).

Source: EliteProspects. They have pages for each team's draft picks over the years. Count up the picks, and the games played and the top 10 picks and their games played and do the math.

 

Outside of top 10 picks, the Canucks have the 7th or 8th fewest games played per pick of all franchises over that period. About 2/3rds of the league average. Boston has by far the most.

 

Benning's score is going to be lower because he loves to trade away seconds and thirds, which is worth noting. But other GMs do this too and you might argue that the GM of a rebuilding team shouldn't.

 

The fanbase massively overestimates how well we have drafted of late. Just because we haven't whiffed on every single pick like in the Gillis era doesn't mean we have drafted well.

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In responding to the posting stating,

Jim Benning an excellent evaluator of talent, but no GM

 

 I think a fair argument is to be made that he isn't a excellent evaluator of talent

 

Boeser was drafted at his draft ranking

Petterson was a top Euro pick considered to need time to bulk ,and His scouts pushed him to draft EP, which he admits too

Hughes fell to them and they desperately wanted to draft a top dman like him

Podz was rated higher, but fell as his 2 yrs commitment to Russia

 

Scouts evaluate unproven young talent

Gm's and Coaches evaluate proven NHL talent (This has been the weakest link, with picks, term and money to get them)

 

If they were to fire the Gm  now, I am sure we won't get as many high end players as mentioned above, but that is because of a number of factors,

We won't be getting as many high end picks,

We replaced the many scouts that were here when we drafted those players 

Luck still plays a part in drafting

Without taking all this into consideration, people remember who was GM and assume he was bold and out thought his peers

 

We need to have done much better in the later rounds of the draft, where a lot of top NHL players are found, and we had high 1st,2nd,3rd,4th round picks etc

 

Benning and "his team" by consensus in drafting as he has stated, have had some excellent top picks, but i think it is a lil much to say excellent evaluator of talent, with the proven NHL talent they traded and picked up, and the later rounds have not been that excellent

 

Schmidt was a great addition, but lets not kid ourselves we stole him, Vegas took the BEST offer they could get for him, and lucky it wasn't too much, I am sure they didn't want him in the same division (at the time)

 

I think he has been learning on the job and getting better, but i thought the NHL wasn't a development League ;) 

Now is that because he is capped, and has spent a lot of picks which he now doesn't have ? (which you generally spend to get you to the top, not out of the basement)

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3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Why don't we just breath.   Go have a walk.   Maybe watch some old games or something.   Bergevin has been crucified by the Habs media for years - made some crazy and questionable moves over the years, and never see his name as a top ten GM in the league.   Fortunately for them, they've got something going now...aside from Vegas and TB, more second liners and middle six guys then anyone and they have a distinct cap disadvantage given they are amongst the highest taxed teams in the league.   

 

JB - as well as any GM, isn't perfect.  However - he's one of the hardest working ones (same as TG as far as coaches go - if you don't know his then spend some time and do the research into how he got the job in the first place, like Roger Nielsen - he was a trend setter in analog zone and exit entries before they were even a thing) ... I don't want a big name - i want a cup and has beens are just that.   Guess the difference between me and some on this site - is i can stomach losing after winning for the future of the club.   Perspective matters.    We had the fourth best run in franchise history despite being outplayed.   TG and the coaching staff knew they'd have to go to those cringeworthy lengths to give us a chance (giving up possesion and retracting to a five man box - and going for the counter attack).   Ive watched bad or mediocre coaches before - TG isnt one of them.   

We need more fans like yourself. This is one of the best posts I’ve seen since joined the forums. I wish I could give you 1000 rep for your calm and collected perspective, personally I absolutely HATE losing, but that does not mean I have given up on management, coaching or the players. I share your view and you put it in perfect perspective when you mentioned Bergevin, because I absolutely thought he had lost his marbles. 
And yes JB is one of the hardest working GMs which we ought to be thankful for, he’s been mentioned several times by insiders as an extremely hard working GM who leaves no stone unturned 


Great post

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9 hours ago, D-Money said:

Say what? :blink:


Most of the money going out the door will be required to extend Pettersson and Hughes. Unless Eriksson can be dumped, and/or Seattle takes Myers in the expansion draft, things are going to be just as tight (if not tighter) next offseason.

 

'I don't know about Petterson's extension.  He is  off to a slow start, I think that he might be offered a bridge contract and then offer him max dollar if he rebounds next season.  He has not proven that he is able to take over the game like Lemieux or Gretzky did.  I do not doubt his ability to be a gamebreaker but lately, he has not done that just yet due to lack of exhibition games.  This is like a exhibition but he might take off sooner than later.  Hughes is also off to a slow start.  So we'll see if they can singlehandedly carry this team into the playoffs. If they can then offer them the top offer.

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2 hours ago, ItsMillerTime said:

All I can say is you're wrong. Petey, Hughes and Marky were all stars last year. Advanced stats wise they were all up there with the best. "Only CHI managed a cup since the cap with their future stars on their ELCs". Why can't the Canucks do this? It's not like the favourites even win each year. I could bring up tons of underdogs who won the cup. I'm not saying the Canucks are for sure cup contenders, but they do have a chance if they built their roster a bit different. "We won't have a window until the core grows up and more is added." The roster could have already been bolstered if Benning didn't sign ridiculous contracts. Look at the Avs they got a young team. It's like saying they aren't contenders until Makar, Mackinnon and Rantanen are older. Sakic added good pieces to their team and they haven't had the best playoff success, but they're for sure cup contenders. "when was COL last a contender? 15 years ago or more...". You do not know your hockey as well as you think if you don't think Colorado is contenders. Your points are weak and are based on assumptions. Don't reply if you can't make any valid points... what a waste of my time. 

Bring up "tons of underdogs who won the cup while their kids were on ELCs"...actually just bring up the "tons" of underdogs any era.   You've lost all credibility your first paragraph to me at least.  Also brush up on your reading comprehension.   Never said COL wasn't a contender - said it's been 15 or more years since they were the last time.   Funny stuff. 

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I'm in my 70's and I was living in Vancouver when they first joined the league. I was a strong Chicago fan but switched to the Canucks. Being a Canuck fan hasn't been easy. In more years than I care to remember, they seem to find a new way to disappoint and anger their fanbase, This year is no exception. I now live in Australia so I watch the games during the middle of the day (between 11:00 and 1:00) and I'm getting tired of spending the rest of the day feeling angry and frustrated after watching a hapless, hopeless hockey team getting whipped again.

Benning seems to be the problem. Poor cap management in previous years forced him to make poor decisions last summer that are coming back to haunt him. I'm speculating, but it seems Aquilini wants a GM he can control rather than one who is competent and in full control of the team. It's time to make a change and hire someone else or bring in an experienced, knowledgable hockey person (Brian Burke??).

My 50 years of patience is getting near the end.

 

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I love the chickencrap one word "quotes" alleging "confused" and "shocking". 

Provide the questions if there were any - the actual responses - quoted in full  (if they were in fact ever "admitted" lol) - and the rest of the context - amateurs.

Twit-ter 'professionalism'.

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2 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Come on man, EP was ranked 5th by only one scouting ranking..look at where he was ranked by the other eleven.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017-draft/2017-nhl-draft-rankings

MOST had him ranked 9 or above - at least the ones the mattered.  You and Rugby Fan are reaching for straws if you think EP dropped on our lap.   Glass, Mittlestadt and Valardi were ranked higher on MOST lists that matter amongst others.   I study this stuff every year.   Good grief you guys are grasping at straws... 

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1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

I'm responding to a post that claimed the highest he was ranked was 9th.  You guys need to get your story straight haha.

Most isn't ALL.   And the ones that matter i posted in response ... if you keep this up i will start quoting what was said both at the time and a year later for those that didn't have him on their radar.   The Canucks did.   Yet your trying to illustrate that he dropped on our lap.   So far only Heiskanen has a case for the best player out of that draft - but go ahead and carry on. 

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5 hours ago, Ms.Glitter said:

This is a very good talking point right here.  Horvat, Miller, Petterson, our best remaining players were shocked and unhappy about the off-season moves.

YES THAT MAKES SENSE! because so many of us are disappointed as well!   they gutted this team in the off-season and thought they could take a step forward?

Benning and Weisbrod moves.

Yes economics forced us to let them go, but we needed to keep these guys through good GM work,  he focused on the OEL deal and let all our important assets walk to Calgary?

Markstrom and Tanev, were the backbone of the team. Stecher is a heart and soul player and glue guy. Toffoli is stud and was available at a reasonable rate.

We tried to replace them with mercenary free agents?  That doesn't work.  Those guys were HUGELY important to the team and locker room.

 

To the person who said Petterson and Hughes have to stand on their own 2 feet.  You don't understand how losing key players can cost a team it's mojo and life force.

It our top players lose so many of their important teammates, and lose faith in management decisions. it will affect their performance.

Do you work well when you lose your family or close associates? they were a tight-knit group.   I can see now why we suck this year.

Righteous rant

I think there is something to that.  That top players on the team especially would be disheartened, after playing so well and coming together defeating the former Stanley Cup champions in round one, and taking the Knights to 7 games. To getting the heart and soul ripped out.  As professionals they have to suck it up and go out and do their best, but they are also human.

 

Those of us that predicted this a year ago were dog piled on by starry eyed JB fans.  I'm not even mad. Because I've had at least a year to deal with what was coming.  I've already accepted long ago now that JB's subpar evaluation and management through his tenure has put the team in a funk and I'll have to wait longer to see a full roster of Cup compete level players.  How can any GM expect to put the finishing touches on a rebuild, with budding young stars when he has saddled himself with.....

 

Loui Eriksson, two years left, $6M cap hit

Brandon Sutter, one year left, $4.375M cap hit

Micheal Ferland, three years left, $3.5M cap hit

Sven Baertschi, one year left, $3.367M cap hit

Jay Beagle, two years left, $3M cap hit

Antoine Roussel, two years left, $3M cap hit

Jordie Benn, one year left, $2M cap hit

Ryan Spooner buyout, one year left, $1.033M cap hit

 

Roberto Luongo $3.033 million cap recapture penalty - Not putting this on him, but he was aware of this penalty going forward before, not learning the first time, and signing his second wave of "foundational" veterans.

 

Of course things will turn around in the future, probably (and hopefully) under a new GM. I am fearful to see anymore FAs signed here by JBs veteran evaluation. but what I hate the most from JBs mismanagement is that we are going to waste the early production careers of Pettersson and Hughes waiting for all of those untradable contracts above to run out before we can add some true talent to compliment them. He's crippled this team to the point that instead of being in the position to add final pieces, to support the new young stars, like another top six, and good goaltending and defense we are up against the cap.

 

Instead we have to SHED a productive top six. As well as an elite level goaltender, which is so damn hard to find.  Wat?   And a heart and soul local kid, one of our best defensive defenseman in Stecher.  Even losing Leivo, for under a mill, a good two way depth top 6.  7 freakin years to build a contending team!  I'm sorry but no matter how one twists it, and comes up with excuses for JB, we are not where we should be by now in Jim's tenure. Schmidt alone does not make up for all we lost.  In fact IMO we've gotten worse on D. I'd rather have Tanev and Stecher than Schimdt and Hamonic. Not to mention all the potential talent we've traded away already with picks and prospects in exchange for all the dead weight we have to carry.

 

I'd even take issue with the "excellent evaluator of talent".   He's pretty terrible at evaluating the talent level and fortitude of veterans in the last half of their careers. Miller is the exception, although in mid career and JB wasn't the only GM to value Miller.   And he wasn't a FA and we had to give up a first, third, conditional, and goaltender Mazanek.  From a team already depleted of picks.  Also noting that JB threw away Madden and a second for nothing.

 

Even his draft age evaluation is suspect IMO.  It was only after Linden pushed Benning to hire a full time chief amateur scout and promote the talented Judd Brackett that the Canucks drafting suddenly improved.   His fist year he found Boeser and Gaudette. When Benning had taken more of the reigns in the beginning he had insisted on Virtanen when Nylander and Ehlers were there. In 2016 we took Joulevi over Tkachuk, and Keller.  You could say that Brackette, being then in charge of amateur scouting,  blew the evaluation of Juolevi, in the 2016 draft, but as Ian Macintyre said about that decision:. ...

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-mailbag-whats-going-gm-jim-benning-judd-brackett/

 

But Juolevi was Benning’s choice back in 2016 because the GM wanted a defenceman and loved what he saw from the Finn at the world juniors. He could have chosen Mikhail Sergachev or Charlie McAvoy. Benning is believed to have gone with Brackett’s first-round recommendation ever since. 

 

Thank gawd, as in the next years of Brackette unfettered by JB meddling, we got Pettersson and Hughes.  We finally had started to build up a decent prospect pool. But Benning didn't like the competition? I have no idea to be honest. But Brackett was let go on the flimsy excuse of daring to want to hire his own staff.  Baffling to this day, and something the Wild were all to happy to accommodate. Podkolzin was given the thumbs up on his way out the door from Brackett, but I worry now that the drafting is once again in the hands of Benning and also Weisbrod, who partially screwed up Calgary's draft pool before joining the Canucks

 

I've already steeled myself up to waiting longer. . No GM is perfect, and I've accepted Jim's blunders as unfortunate but a reality he or the next GM will have to deal with. Life is like that for everyone, we all make mistakes. Just sucks that us fans have to suffer for it, make us wait for a contender even longer, and waste the potential of our younger talent for the next two years at least, and Bo may even be already past his prime by then, but whatever.  I'd say that JB can still prove me wrong, I hope as a fan he does. But the chickens came home to roost, as some of us predicted. And I'm not just talking about Rousell.  Patience is once again required with this team.  We Are All Canucks Patient

.

.

 

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15 minutes ago, brokensticks said:

I'm in my 70's and I was living in Vancouver when they first joined the league. I was a strong Chicago fan but switched to the Canucks. Being a Canuck fan hasn't been easy. In more years than I care to remember, they seem to find a new way to disappoint and anger their fanbase, This year is no exception. I now live in Australia so I watch the games during the middle of the day (between 11:00 and 1:00) and I'm getting tired of spending the rest of the day feeling angry and frustrated after watching a hapless, hopeless hockey team getting whipped again.

Benning seems to be the problem. Poor cap management in previous years forced him to make poor decisions last summer that are coming back to haunt him. I'm speculating, but it seems Aquilini wants a GM he can control rather than one who is competent and in full control of the team. It's time to make a change and hire someone else or bring in an experienced, knowledgable hockey person (Brian Burke??).

My 50 years of patience is getting near the end.

 

Boudrais - first off, i love your handle, second off if i ever move to Australia let's watch a game together.   I get it.  I'm not 100% behind JB either.   The biggest issue i have is the cap and 32 teams in the league, i simply don't like the vanilla or the odds of winning a cup these days.   

 

It is what it is though, and we are lucky to have a top 1/3 drafting GM given how bad we have had it most of the past 50 years.   You've got 20 years on me so i will differ to your wisdom.   I don't like it either - but also don't think JB is the problem or TG (yet).   Do you have it in you for one more year of patience?   

 

Math sucks.   I don't like it.  But the arithmetic says we are above the curve at the moment under the cap for a team that used to be a top runner with no prospect pool.   Would you trade our roster for Detroit's?   Holland was regarded as the cream of the crop for a decade.    Larkin and Horvat ... what's happened since.   I get your upset.  I don't like it either and was hoping for a much better start - and in this game you can be sure that next season if the same thing happens change is coming.    

 

ARI, BUFF, TO, EDM, CAR...how have things gone for them?   Have to compare apples with apples...only Detroit fits that bill under the cap 

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