[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Ottawa Senators | January 25, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | NHLN, SNP, TSN5, RDS

[VforVasili]

JB is a tough negotiator and sticks to his guns by not re-signing players to a detrimental contract long term = bad GM

 

JB is a soft negotiator and signs players to a generous contract= bad GM

 

Glad folks are so consistent in this fan base. 

[-DLC-]

^I agree, Tas.  I have been on the JB bandwagon and tend to not buy in to rumours and speculation, but as I saw tweeted "where there's smoke there's fire".  And I'm worried about the possibility that there is more than just some on ice breakdowns.

 

Players do move and that's part of it, but when you mess with chemistry in the room it can linger.   If these guys are resentful, that's a problem.  And someone's got to go before they do.  If it's "a" guy...get over it.  If it's the room...I think you have to tap into that.

 

I was ok with letting Tanev, TT and Markstrom walk if it was their deal and wanting more than was possible was driving it all.   But it definitely changes the face of things and if the players wanted to keep them around, that matters.  

 

I hate this .... this team has too much potential in the young guns to let them wither and wilt.  If there are issues behind the scenes, fix them.  If not, time to tune out Tweeter and the Monkey Men who are putting a spin on things.  

It is common during a slide to start questioning things (everything!) and rumours will surface...hope it's all nothing and a few wins shut up the masses.

 

COVID year has been too weird...just give me hockey without any drama please.

[73 Percent]

I think the disappointing start is due more to the lack of experience on the team. Our core is one of the youngest in the league if not the youngest. 

 

Those who have been in the league a long time on the same team a long time will obviously have an easier time jumping right into things. Boeser hasn't had a real training camp yet. This is hughes second offseason. Same with petey. Holtby and schmidt just moved across the country. 

 

 

Lots of factors here. Is weird watching the covid nhl from home, think about how weird it is playing. 

 

Another thing i want to mention is the path of success. It isnt always linear. Look at Colorado. They were up and down for years before becoming a regular contender.  I think we'll be the same in that regard. 

[bishopshodan]

What time is game on? pacific time.

Thread title says 7pm, original post say 4pm..

 

I'm a little salty about missing the Sat game due to not noticing the early start. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by bishopshodan
Googled, its on at 7pm PT. The OP is incorrect.

[Boudrias]

12 hours ago, timmylu1 said:

That’s all

There is no ketchup! We all know that John drinks the stuff.

[appleboy]

I would hope that the management and ownership new that this year would be a step back. They would have to be living in a cloud to not realize the cap reality. They may have looked at this covid year as a prime opportunity to take a bit of a reset. Clear some cap space.  

What I find interesting is that they have a full slate of draft picks for this year. They traded two for 2022. (Because they didn't resign Tafoli they will not lose their forth.)

I would hope that they plan years in advance.

[appleboy]

12 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

What time is game on? pacific time.

Thread title says 7pm, original post say 4pm..

 

I'm a little salty about missing the Sat game due to not noticing the early start. 

It is a week day. So 7:00 PM

[Boudrias]

46 minutes ago, tas said:

I've been hypothesizing feelings of resentment and discontent with management and/or ownership for awhile now, and frankly, I totally understand it if that is the case.

 

from the players' perspectives, it would be one thing if the money wasn't there to bring these guys back, but when they see nate schmidt and braden holtby brought in at effectively the same combined cap hit as markstrom and tanev, that has got to be a bitter pill to swallow. from a fan's perspective, it's easy to look at the larger considerations of age, term, trade protection, and expansion draft but for the players, all they see is an organization not willing to commit to two incredibly loyal soldiers and two guys they considered family. and this after benning spent months espousing his determination to bring back both guys and crowing about their importance to the team. 

 

looking at that, and seeing how new deals for green, pettersson and hughes have gone nowhere thus far, how can these guys reasonably be expected to feel like the organization has faith and is invested in them?

 

if you want my one prediction going forward: expect negotiations with 40 and 43 to be incredibly challenging for new deals. there will be no loyalty discounts. 

Holtby is on a year term Marky got 6 years. All the pundits grade Schmidt higher than Tanev. Schmidt was signed after TANEV LEFT. Peterson and Hughes will get the best deals their agent can get them the same way Marky and Tanev did. Surprise. Why would you expect a “loyalty” discount? What is that 5% off? 

[Smashian Kassian]

If we can run the table against Ottawa we are right back in it.

 

This series is a great chance to build confidence & turn our play around.

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, appleboy said:

It is a week day. So 7:00 PM

The Wed game is at 5pm.

 

So, they are messing around a bit for the eastern viewers. 

 

Just pointing out that the Original Post says 4pm PT but the thread title says the correct time of 7pmPT.

[EddieVedder]

20 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Move Pearson to the fourth line. Give MacEwen some time on Bo’s line. 

I agree.  Also move Boeser off Peteys wing and put Hoglander there.

[Ghostsof1915]

22 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

I think the disappointing start is due more to the lack of experience on the team. Our core is one of the youngest in the league if not the youngest. 

 

Those who have been in the league a long time on the same team a long time will obviously have an easier time jumping right into things. Boeser hasn't had a real training camp yet. This is hughes second offseason. Same with petey. Holtby and schmidt just moved across the country. 

 

 

Lots of factors here. Is weird watching the covid nhl from home, think about how weird it is playing. 

 

Another thing i want to mention is the path of success. It isnt always linear. Look at Colorado. They were up and down for years before becoming a regular contender.  I think we'll be the same in that regard. 

I'm cutting Schmidt some slack because he's had no preseason games with the team. But he also has the worst giveaway/takeaway stats on the team. I actually expected a lot more from a Vet. I'm hoping it's just him settling into the team. 

[tas]

9 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Holtby is on a year term Marky got 6 years. All the pundits grade Schmidt higher than Tanev. Schmidt was signed after TANEV LEFT. Peterson and Hughes will get the best deals their agent can get them the same way Marky and Tanev did. Surprise. Why would you expect a “loyalty” discount? What is that 5% off? 

yeah. and tanev and markstrom left because the team wouldn't give them the money they were asking. they weren't willing to spend $10.5 mil per year on tanman and markstrom, but they were willing to spend it on holtby and schmidt. 

 

slap in the face. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by tas

[appleboy]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

The Wed game is at 5pm.

 

So, they are messing around a bit for the eastern viewers. 

 

Just pointing out that the Original Post says 4pm PT but the thread title says the correct time of 7pmPT.

You are right. That is weird for a week day.

[EternalCanuckFan]

The recent series against MTL exposed some issues the Canucks have been dealing with for years but it just seemed like those problems were dialed up to 1 to 11 (on a scale of 1 to 10...) during that series.

 

The most telling issue is that top players are making terrible errors in judgment resulting in giveaways.  I'm not going to harp on EP too much but he has not looked himself.  Hughes hasn't looked himself either.  Miller has been a mixed bag.  He has looked great at moments but he has also been forcing plays (just like EP and Hughes have).  Horvat, Hoglander and Juolevi have been the brightest spots this season IMHO in this regard.  Even then however, I think all teams have top players who suffer from this from time to time.  It's a matter of figuring out what the problem is.  To me, it's either the players are caring too much about scoring/not making a mistake/etc., or they are not caring enough or at all about the outcome.  I personally think it's the former more than the latter but that doesn't mean that the latter may not be part of the picture. 

 

In terms of the personnel who were let go during the offseason, obviously Markstrom, Toffoli and Tanev were the most impactful.  I would think that Markstrom's and Tanev's departure would have been the most significant for the locker room since they had been here so long and were part of the previous core.  Toffoli was a great addition and I recall players being encouraged by his addition as a sign of management's confidence in the group when they were interviewed after his acquisition.  On paper however, Holtby, Schmidt and Hamonic should at least have helped the team to achieve the same level of play, if not exceed it (at least at the defensive end).  Not re-signing Toffoli probably has the greatest impact simply because, leaving aside his crazy production in the last 3 games, he is genuinely a better offensive player than the guys who were kept to fill his top-6 role.  Hoglander is a great addition but I think it's unfair to expect him to produce like Toffoli can.  Additionally, Jake had a decent season last year but IMHO, he is unlikely to ever have the instincts to produce like Toffoli.  Is there an argument that management might have been better off dealing someone like Jake for a pick so they could have the space to re-sign Toffoli?  Maybe.  I suspect in that case however that management would then be under fire for failing to recoup enough value for whomever was traded.

 

If the poor on-ice play is truly a result of some personal antagonism between some players and management and the players can't right the ship, then this has the makings of being a terrible stretch for the Canuck both on and off the ice.  Personally it would raise questions about professionalism among the players and how fragile the locker room is.  Dealing with the loss of friends and mentors is probably the hardest for the youngest players, but players come and go for all kinds of reasons.

 

Management has obviously made mistakes over the years but based on last year's playoffs, they also have clearly built a young core that could be amazing for years to come.  I don't know I would go as far as to say that a change in management is completely undeserved, but I think it would be unfair to say that management must be changed right now.  Of course, if the team continues to play like it did during the MTL series for another few games, then I think the chances of a change in management, whether warranted or not, will certainly be much higher.

[Nucker 67]

1 hour ago, tas said:

I've been hypothesizing feelings of resentment and discontent with management and/or ownership for awhile now, and frankly, I totally understand it if that is the case.

 

from the players' perspectives, it would be one thing if the money wasn't there to bring these guys back, but when they see nate schmidt and braden holtby brought in at effectively the same combined cap hit as markstrom and tanev, that has got to be a bitter pill to swallow. from a fan's perspective, it's easy to look at the larger considerations of age, term, trade protection, and expansion draft but for the players, all they see is an organization not willing to commit to two incredibly loyal soldiers and two guys they considered family. and this after benning spent months espousing his determination to bring back both guys and crowing about their importance to the team. 

 

looking at that, and seeing how new deals for green, pettersson and hughes have gone nowhere thus far, how can these guys reasonably be expected to feel like the organization has faith and is invested in them?

 

if you want my one prediction going forward: expect negotiations with 40 and 43 to be incredibly challenging for new deals. there will be no loyalty discounts. 

I think you nailed it. Ownership needs to be concerned that Pettersson and Hughes may even decide this isn't where they want to play, if changes to management aren't made.

 

 

[204CanucksFan]

20 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Holtby is on a year term Marky got 6 years. All the pundits grade Schmidt higher than Tanev. Schmidt was signed after TANEV LEFT. Peterson and Hughes will get the best deals their agent can get them the same way Marky and Tanev did. Surprise. Why would you expect a “loyalty” discount? What is that 5% off? 

It's when you get MacKinnon, arguably the best player in the world, signed at 6.3 million per year and then have him say he will absolutely take less money than market value on his next contract to make sure his team can spend to ensure his team can stay competitive and keep their elite core intact

[Boest-er]

7 minutes ago, tas said:

yeah. and tanev and markstrom left because the team wouldn't give them the money they were asking. they weren't willing to spend $10.5 mil per year on tanman and markstrom, but they were willing to spend it on holtby and schmidt. 

 

slap in the face. 

I think it has more to do with the term of the contracts given, Schmidt is someone who would probably play to the end of his contract in 4 years, whereas Tanev would possibly be fully injured/ a liability near then. Now Marky vs Holtby, one of Marky or demko would instantly be taken by Seattle in the E.D. so we had to make a decision and management chose to keep our up and coming goalie in Demko. Sure chemistry and being like family in the room matters, but its a business and the GM made the best decision at the time given his circumstances. albeit there is an argument that he put himself in that corner. 

[tas]

2 minutes ago, Boest-er said:

I think it has more to do with the term of the contracts given, Schmidt is someone who would probably play to the end of his contract in 4 years, whereas Tanev would possibly be fully injured/ a liability near then. Now Marky vs Holtby, one of Marky or demko would instantly be taken by Seattle in the E.D. so we had to make a decision and management chose to keep our up and coming goalie in Demko. Sure chemistry and being like family in the room matters, but its a business and the GM made the best decision at the time given his circumstances. albeit there is an argument that he put himself in that corner. 

like I mentioned, it's easy for fans to see and accept that angle. for the players in the room though, they don't look at tanev and markstrom and think, "oh, these guys are 31, you can't afford to lock them up long term." they see two brothers who are beasts and in their primes and who were huge parts of the tightest group this organization has ever seen getting completely disrespected by management and/or ownership whoever is ultimately responsible for that decision. 

[Wayne Glensky]

1 hour ago, VforVirtanen said:

JB is a tough negotiator and sticks to his guns by not re-signing players to a detrimental contract long term = bad GM

 

JB is a soft negotiator and signs players to a generous contract= bad GM

 

Glad folks are so consistent in this fan base. 

Signing 4th line plugs 3x3 = bad GM.