Green and his assistants - not the men for this job

[Dazzle]

There's been a lot of talk about fire Benning, but the scrutiny on Green is not the same. There's so many more excuses for him. Brown and Baumer tend to get more flack out of his coaching staff.

 

This game is a symptom that the coaches are failing this team. The players of course deserve blame, but the lackluster passing and giveaways speak to the coaches not being able to get through to the players.

 

This is not strictly about this game, but being outshot by the opponents (this game being the most obvious indication), is a long-standing issue that hasn't been addressed. There's a lack of adaptation.

 

Coaching is most definitely an issue.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Dazzle

[Nuxfanabroad]

Been feeling more & more this way, dating back to the poorly-coached Lost Vegans series.

[Pears]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a coach with a more straight up swiss cheese structure than Baumgartner’s like my god. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

Assistants - I agree. Green seems to be highly regarded league wide according to guys like Lebrun and Friedman... and then you replaces him? THough I will say that I disagree with the decision to start Chatfield over Juolevi today. Juolevi played a good game and scored. Chatfield is returning from an upper body injury, possibly concussion, and you are putting him back in over Juolevi? Keep OJ in and give Chatfield an extra day or so.

[Dazzle]

2 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Assistants - I agree. Green seems to be highly regarded league wide according to guys like Lebrun and Friedman... and then you replaces him? THough I will say that I disagree with the decision to start Chatfield over Juolevi today. Juolevi played a good game and scored. Chatfield is returning from an upper body injury, possibly concussion, and you are putting him back in over Juolevi? Keep OJ in and give Chatfield an extra day or so.

Benning's also highly regarded too, as he was voted sixth for best GMs by other GMs. Do fans care about that stuff? No.

[VegasCanuck]

This is an overreaction. There's nothing wrong with Green, we have the wrong mixture on defense, and we're not likely going to fix that before the end of the season.

 

It sucks that we got trapped by the flat cap. We need Tryamkin added for next season, and the only reason he isn't here this year, was due to Covid and the flat cap.

 

Everyone needs to calm down a little. We didn't have any exhibition schedule, and we haven't had any real practice time to work on systems since the season started. Take a look at the schedule, we've been playing more than any other team. We need 2 or 3 days of practice time.

[AV.]

We can sack Green, sure, but the composition of this team, outside of 5-6 players, is absolute trash, and I don't see many coaches doing much better with this team.  Green is not elite nor a great coach, but let's be honest, he's working miracles with what he has.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Alain Vigneault

[Westcoasting]

20 minutes ago, Pears said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a coach with a more straight up swiss cheese structure than Baumgartner’s like my god. 

Yeah so Greens structure basically. Asst coach’s don’t run their own show , they work with the coach.

[Dazzle]

15 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is an overreaction. There's nothing wrong with Green, we have the wrong mixture on defense, and we're not likely going to fix that before the end of the season.

 

It sucks that we got trapped by the flat cap. We need Tryamkin added for next season, and the only reason he isn't here this year, was due to Covid and the flat cap.

 

Everyone needs to calm down a little. We didn't have any exhibition schedule, and we haven't had any real practice time to work on systems since the season started. Take a look at the schedule, we've been playing more than any other team. We need 2 or 3 days of practice time.

It's the exact same system from last season. It's the same entry strategies. Defensively, they are passive. Pinches by defenseman are still just as risky.

 

Even with four goals, we are still outshot by Ottawa.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Dazzle

[Pears]

33 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is an overreaction. There's nothing wrong with Green, we have the wrong mixture on defense, and we're not likely going to fix that before the end of the season.

 

It sucks that we got trapped by the flat cap. We need Tryamkin added for next season, and the only reason he isn't here this year, was due to Covid and the flat cap.

 

Everyone needs to calm down a little. We didn't have any exhibition schedule, and we haven't had any real practice time to work on systems since the season started. Take a look at the schedule, we've been playing more than any other team. We need 2 or 3 days of practice time.

It isn’t though. Same issues happened last year which made Markstrom and Demko look like gods. 

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, Pears said:

It isn’t though. Same issues happened last year which made Markstrom and Demko look like gods. 

Our defense makeup is a work in progress. We still need work, we need more size and we need someone else who can block shots.

[Dazzle]

I get that the Canucks are up 5-1, but the shot count is 41-35 for the Senators.

 

If a couple of those shots went in, this game would have been very different, especially since the last two goals by the Canucks were at the halfway mark.

[Devron]

Meh we could have also let only 20 shots on net and lost the game. Goalies play better with more shots. It’s the high scoring chances that I worry about 

[RogersTowell]

38 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I get that the Canucks are up 5-1, but the shot count is 41-35 for the Senators.

 

If a couple of those shots went in, this game would have been very different, especially since the last two goals by the Canucks were at the halfway mark.

It doesn't matter what the shot count is if the score says otherwise.  Scoring chances is another matter (unless your goalie steals one for you).

 

You can say 'If a couple of those shots went it' all you want but it didn't happen.  If wishes were horses then beggars would ride.  Demko made a couple of really good saves, but he didn't have to work nearly as hard as he did in the 7-1 victory.  High quality chances for the Sens were lower than for the Canucks.  The type of shots you take in a game really matter a lot.

[Pears]

4 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

It doesn't matter what the shot count is if the score says otherwise.  Scoring chances is another matter (unless your goalie steals one for you).

 

You can say 'If a couple of those shots went it' all you want but it didn't happen.  If wishes were horses then beggars would ride.  Demko made a couple of really good saves, but he didn't have to work nearly as hard as he did in the 7-1 victory.  High quality chances for the Sens were lower than for the Canucks.  The type of shots you take in a game really matter a lot.

Regardless, giving up 40+ shots to a team with one (1) win on the season is unacceptable.

[Arrow 1983]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

There's been a lot of talk about fire Benning, but the scrutiny on Green is not the same. There's so many more excuses for him. Brown and Baumer tend to get more flack out of his coaching staff.

 

This game is a symptom that the coaches are failing this team. The players of course deserve blame, but the lackluster passing and giveaways speak to the coaches not being able to get through to the players.

 

This is not strictly about this game, but being outshot by the opponents (this game being the most obvious indication), is a long-standing issue that hasn't been addressed. There's a lack of adaptation.

 

Coaching is most definitely an issue.

Most coaches aren't Adaptable they tend to panic and switch up lines when they are losing 4-2 and nothing is going right. Most people in general tend not to be able to use forethought  coaches are no different. The best coaches change things when the team is winning but see structural issues. This is what separates hall a fame coaches from all the rest. Coaches in general are creatures of habit if it works don't break it, don't mess with a winning lineup the players will figure it out on their own

[brownky]

41 minutes ago, Pears said:

Regardless, giving up 40+ shots to a team with one (1) win on the season is unacceptable.

To me I think the opposite. If they get 40 low chance shots on net, those are 40 'chances' to retain or regain possession and break back out.

 

The issue with 'swiss cheese defence' is when it's 3-1 and 2/1 or 2/0 breakaways given up 5-6-7 times a game. Those are extreme high chance shots on net.

 

I don't like our defensive scheme, but my issues with it don't stem from goalies seeing a ton of shots from the outside.

[rychicken]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

There's been a lot of talk about fire Benning, but the scrutiny on Green is not the same. There's so many more excuses for him. Brown and Baumer tend to get more flack out of his coaching staff.

 

This game is a symptom that the coaches are failing this team. The players of course deserve blame, but the lackluster passing and giveaways speak to the coaches not being able to get through to the players.

 

This is not strictly about this game, but being outshot by the opponents (this game being the most obvious indication), is a long-standing issue that hasn't been addressed. There's a lack of adaptation.

 

Coaching is most definitely an issue.

where ya been? 

[Zhukini]

The new Buzzsaw

[Tom Sestito]

I don't think you can fire a coach for not overperforming. The team has finished about exactly where you expect given the quality of the roster that Benning and hockey ops has put in place every year that Green has been here.

 

If the Canucks finish on par with the AHL Senators this season, that's an obvious underperformance. But, I think anywhere from 3-6 was expected from Vancouver this season. 

 

Do I think Gallant or Trotz are objectively better coaches? Sure. I just think it's a reach to blame Green for this roster's issues. He's not Willie D.