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Green and his assistants - not the men for this job

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2 hours ago, RogersTowell said:

It doesn't matter what the shot count is if the score says otherwise.  Scoring chances is another matter (unless your goalie steals one for you).

 

You can say 'If a couple of those shots went it' all you want but it didn't happen.  If wishes were horses then beggars would ride.  Demko made a couple of really good saves, but he didn't have to work nearly as hard as he did in the 7-1 victory.  High quality chances for the Sens were lower than for the Canucks.  The type of shots you take in a game really matter a lot.

In the first period, the Sens could have EASILY been up 3-1. Maybe even 4-1. There were 27 shots in the first period alone.

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4 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It's the exact same system from last season. It's the same entry strategies. Defensively, they are passive. Pinches by defenseman are still just as risky.

 

What system is that?

 

Sorry - but there is no such thing as "the system" = there are a LOT of systems in a team game.

 

Forechecking systems

Neutral zone systems.

Dzone systems

Penalty killing systems.

etc, etc...

Breakout. Zone entry.....

 

And further - each unit/line/pairing - may not play the same systems as others on the same team - "systems" are typically tailored for units/lines/pairings - not teams. 

Ie a third line of Burrows Kesler Hansen.....would not necessarily play the same 'systems' as a line of Naslund Morrison Bertuzzi.... or Sedin Sedin Pyatt/Bernier/Klatt etc...You don't cookie cutter your team into a "system".  The closest thing we've seen to that is the Tortorella attempt to one-size fits all - ie the genius idea of making the Sedins penalty killers and Tom Sestito a powerplay winger....:ph34r: - and that is merely a joke - because Tortorella, likewise, has no 'system' - he has systems (by far the worst suited I've ever seen here - but that is a long, snow-tire of a conversation/thread of it's own).

 

And they aren't stagnant from one opponent to the next either.

 

Pet peeve when people one-liner a coach/team like this - and don't begin to flush out any actual systems whatsoever.  "passive" or "risky pinches"...are still only a few words.

 

Dates back / reminds me of the "defend-the-0-0-tie" one-liner regarding AV's alleged "system"....which was a literally meaningless - but a common currency misrepresentation.

 

I think if people want to call out the coaches - it's going to take countless more effort - accounting in far more depth what the team is actually doing -  than anyone here puts into it - if it hopes to be taken seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is an overreaction. There's nothing wrong with Green, we have the wrong mixture on defense, and we're not likely going to fix that before the end of the season.

 

It sucks that we got trapped by the flat cap. We need Tryamkin added for next season, and the only reason he isn't here this year, was due to Covid and the flat cap.

 

Everyone needs to calm down a little. We didn't have any exhibition schedule, and we haven't had any real practice time to work on systems since the season started. Take a look at the schedule, we've been playing more than any other team. We need 2 or 3 days of practice time.

every year is wrong mixture on defense.. there are plenty of teams out there with far worse defense mixture than us and still keep their shots down and every year we are getting worse and worse in shots against.. this year we are at the top leading the league by a fair margin lol

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Funny thing is these threads will always pop up no matter who the coach is. Hockey is full of ups and downs throughout the season. We just happen to have had ours which is better then at the end of a season and maybe we go through another rough patch at some point.
 

I like the trajectory of the team and what Green has done with the players. A lot of guys have had major success under Green. Even a bet like Pearson had a career year last year and where would A guy like Motte be if he was on another team?
 

But regardless of my view of the coaching I don’t see much for coaching changes even around the league in a shortened revenue less covid season 

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7 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

We can sack Green, sure, but the composition of this team, outside of 5-6 players, is absolute trash, and I don't see many coaches doing much better with this team.  Green is not elite nor a great coach, but let's be honest, he's working miracles with what he has.

I feel like this is a troll thread but I'm not sure, so if it is, well played @Dazzle

 

@Alain Vigneault 5-6 players and the rest are trash eh? So there's Petey, Boeser, Bo, Miller, Hughes, and one other, and the rest are trash?

 

With all due respect that's total nonsense lol

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2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

In the first period, the Sens could have EASILY been up 3-1. Maybe even 4-1. There were 27 shots in the first period alone.

Sens got SNATCHERED by THATCHER

 

:emot-parrot::goat:  :emot-parrot:

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11 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

We can sack Green, sure, but the composition of this team, outside of 5-6 players, is absolute trash, and I don't see many coaches doing much better with this team.  Green is not elite nor a great coach, but let's be honest, he's working miracles with what he has.

If he's working miracles with what he has - wouldn't that make him a miraculous coach?   Sounds pretty great at least. 

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11 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is an overreaction. There's nothing wrong with Green, we have the wrong mixture on defense, and we're not likely going to fix that before the end of the season.

 

It sucks that we got trapped by the flat cap. We need Tryamkin added for next season, and the only reason he isn't here this year, was due to Covid and the flat cap.

 

Everyone needs to calm down a little. We didn't have any exhibition schedule, and we haven't had any real practice time to work on systems since the season started. Take a look at the schedule, we've been playing more than any other team. We need 2 or 3 days of practice time.

It is not the mixture. Schmidt even said in an interview in training camp that Dmen need to get used to there partner to be effective. That he was learning how to work with Edler and getting used to what Edler will do on any given plays. It was after that interview that I started saying the Canucks will need 10 games to get into game form because there will be D lapses as they learn. So many want it to be like the videogames that they forget the human element in the game.

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4 hours ago, ImConfused said:

I feel like this is a troll thread but I'm not sure, so if it is, well played @Dazzle

 

@Alain Vigneault 5-6 players and the rest are trash eh? So there's Petey, Boeser, Bo, Miller, Hughes, and one other, and the rest are trash?

 

With all due respect that's total nonsense lol

Of course it is a troll thread.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

If he's working miracles with what he has - wouldn't that make him a miraculous coach?   Sounds pretty great at least. 

Sure, you can call him what you want, but that's not really the point of my post.

 

My point is that even if one believes the grass is greener than Green (deliberate pun) with somebody else, it doesn't change the fact that this team really isn't all that great beyond a few players.   In light of that, you'd still be asking even the best of coaches to do quite a lot with so little.

 

Therefore, the issue at hand is not so much with Green than it is, say, Benning and the general management team.

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6 hours ago, ImConfused said:

I feel like this is a troll thread but I'm not sure, so if it is, well played @Dazzle

 

@Alain Vigneault 5-6 players and the rest are trash eh? So there's Petey, Boeser, Bo, Miller, Hughes, and one other, and the rest are trash?

 

With all due respect that's total nonsense lol

If the league was full of Edmontons and Ottawas, sure, we're a great team.  But it isn't and guess what, that makes us not a great team.

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Both JB and TG are considered good at their jobs outside of a chunk of this fan base.    Of course they aren't perfect but they have both done an above average job compared to their peers.    We are still a young team, and will remain so for the next 2-4 years depending on the players in our core.   A coaching change with TG should only occur if A:  he loses the room.  B:  Next year we have an improved roster and end up not playing better hockey.   For sure there is a shelf life on coaches.   As of right now JB/TG are both on the same page with the direction and future of the club which also matters.    Both have done enough to see it through.   Poile and Trotz had a very long relationship,  several times Poile could have fired Trotz to spark his teams, he did not.    And look how far Trotz has gone - what's happening right now reminds me a lot of that. 

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2 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

If the league was full of Edmontons and Ottawas, sure, we're a great team.  But it isn't and guess what, that makes us not a great team.

Not many of us on the CDC are calling the Canucks a great team - but you calling our roster trash outside of 5 or so players comes across as either extremely naive or just a bitter, not so veiled troll job.    We have an above average forward group, and average defense and goaltending this season so far is still a question mark.    I read on here all the time what fans consider bad contracts.   Sutter and Beagle help the team strength of a top 1-3 team in the dot.   Hard to put a money value on that, but when our kids get paid i'm going to say this right now - we could definitely miss both these guys.   Bear is gone this year... LE and Luongo the next.   That's the only "trash" in the lineup given they don't play.    Every year we add 1-2 rookies that stick....As long as that continues we will be fine. 

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Kid: Daddy, How do I become a Canucks fan? 
Dad: Well, it’s pretty easy. Can you praise the players when we win and blame the coaching when we lose? 
Kid: I guess so.... but I’m confused, do the players only get coached when we lose? 
Dad: .....go to your room. 

Edited by Convincing John
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46 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Not many of us on the CDC are calling the Canucks a great team - but you calling our roster trash outside of 5 or so players comes across as either extremely naive or just a bitter, not so veiled troll job.    We have an above average forward group, and average defense and goaltending this season so far is still a question mark.    I read on here all the time what fans consider bad contracts.   Sutter and Beagle help the team strength of a top 1-3 team in the dot.   Hard to put a money value on that, but when our kids get paid i'm going to say this right now - we could definitely miss both these guys.   Bear is gone this year... LE and Luongo the next.   That's the only "trash" in the lineup given they don't play.    Every year we add 1-2 rookies that stick....As long as that continues we will be fine. 

Oh boy.

 

This might be the only fanbase in the league that thinks leadership or faceoffs are worth 3M+ on their own.  The mental gymnastics I see on a daily basis to justify these contracts is not even comical at this point, it's legitimately sad, and I'm starting feel horrible for our fans who have been gaslit to believe this is normal.

 

Anyways, even if you think the trash is limited to just those 3 players (Baertschi, Eriksson, Luongo), thats still about 12M that could have been used towards bringing in/bringing back 1-2 impact players.  A sign of the GM failing and not the coach.

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lets play musical chairs with management, coaches and players until we win the stanley cup, so every fan will be appeased. our goal should be to have 4 first lines, three sets of top defensemen and 2 elite goalies. nothing else will do. but not just 1 cup but a dozen. if a player or players are struggling, fire the coach or the gm for signing or drafting them.  perfection or bust.

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Sometimes reading this crap on here gives me a headache. How's this for the posters bit&*(ng about JB. You make up a team starting with 2 aged out stars, 5 or 6 NHL players and the rest of the roster made up of AHL/ fringe NHL players, and build a team to win the Cup in 4 to 6 years. Remember some of the players you want will be offered more than you want to pay by other teams wanting the same guy and drafting is a crapshoot. Put your reputations on the line. Ohh, and you have a large very fickle "fanbase" that thinks it knows more than you and wants you fired cause you didn't do want they thought was best and a media that runs with the negative. 

One poster above wants everyone fired, why? Does he think other rethreads from around the league will get us to the promised land faster? It's sports, a game played on ice not paper. If you fired JB and Green, who do you replace with? At least that would make a discussion. Throwing crap at the wall and whinging about everything doesn't make  a good base for discussion. 

On TSN last night they showed the top 6 guys available for GM spots, Chia was #3

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