[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Ottawa Senators | January 28 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SNP

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

This team still bleeds shots against. In fact they lead the league in shots against with a percentage of 37.1. 

 

Against Ottawa, it managed, but against most any other team in the North, this team's defensive structure relies way too heavily on it's goaltenders bailing them out. If the team had a defensive coach that was actually capable, they'd be able to utilize the skills of the more than competent defense corps to box out opposing forwards, keeping them to the perimeter.

 

Fans shouldn't be shocked if the team struggles out east. Not because they aren't good enough as players and as a team, but because they're being asked to implement systems that are counter productive.

This is true.   But it's also a proven method as far as winning goes (let the team shoot as long as the goalie can see it )...PIT won back to back cups with mediocre possession and poor shot blocking/suppression.   Was the best thing that's happened to hockey the last decade - as it moved things off the fancy stat obsession.   Possession of course matter - since CHI and LA it's no longer the center of the universe, and PIT won ... well not so much, there are other tactics.   Not that in disagreeing with you as far as passing the puck to other players in the slot goes - THOSE shots matter.    That's got to stop- and seems it happen 4/6 times a game including odd man rushes.   If we can eliminate those chances, i'm ok with the other 25-30 anyday.   As long as we score more goals then we allow - this is the most exciting hockey i've watched the Canucks since the peak Sedin Era - and better then most the rest of their career .,,

Edited January 29, 2021 by IBatch

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Glad Myers is getting his points.   Hope he scores  a hat trick tomorrow. 

[Ajax-]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Calm down, slappy. Keep you undies unbunched, okay? Breathe....

 

If you actually watch the games, you can see the defense collapsing in formations that are far too passive and allow the other teams to get plenty of shots on net, with an average of 37 per game. You think, in your infinite wisdom, that leading the league in shots against is a good thing?

 

This team bled shots against last year with Tanev and Stecher in the fold, and are doing the same with a revamped defense. 

 

 

Super Calm here Phil and my undies aren't bunched as i don't wear any.

I do try to breathe often each day, how about you? 

in my infinite wisdom when i watch the games (all of them) i see lots of mistakes, collapsing formations, turn overs, missed assignments, etc.

 

continually bitching, complaining and criticizing the coaching is your Mojo and your entitled to your negativity,

 

Go Canucks Goi

[canuck2288]

1 hour ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Not trying to argue with you, but boxing out/defending around the net is basic stuff.  The defensive structure the Canucks employ in general (weak side sag) is pretty much the same structure most teams employ.  

 

I agree the shots against ain't pretty if they want to to be competitive.  I'd be curious what the shot quality/chances are though.  I don't recall high danger chances were that high, but against good teams that might be different.

 

Getting clean break outs help, and good defenders that can break up the play (I'm ready to admit it-Myers can be a tire fire in zone at times) helps too.  I think Chatfield has been a boon and I like the way Benn is thinking out there.  You'll notice some wingers and centers are so much better at breaking the puck out cleanly as well.  Green made a good point about defending tired as (which they often do).  That can be improved with better play outside of their own zone.   

 

I firmly believe that different coaches won't change anything.  What you see is what you get with this group (as you see it now)

Weak side sag is frankly nothing more than the weak side winger covering a zone area and reacting to puck and player movement. 

 

yes we TRY to play that system but here is where it fails with Baumer is we stay static so, although deploy the system, we don't press and place puck pressure. This happens in normal coverage and the penalty kill. In addition, we rarely finish our d zone checks which in turn opens us up to the cycle 

 

simple fixes but does Baumer adapt? Nope

 

i tell you this as the preeminent hockey expert on this forum because i feel its my calling to spread hockey knowledge 

[Angry Goose]

Curious what people's opinions are on Juolevi being a healthy scratch? 

 

Personally I think it's good for him.  The college type schedule of off ice workout and games is probably a good mix for him   Given how little he has played it's ok for him to sit some games.  I do think Chatfield is the more ready defenseman too and Benny is playing well too which is a factor.  

[PhillipBlunt]

18 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

Super Calm here Phil and my undies aren't bunched as i don't wear any.

18 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

I do try to breathe often each day, how about you? 

According to my pulse oximeter, I'm getting enough oxygen, although some of that might be hot air.

18 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

in my infinite wisdom when i watch the games (all of them) i see lots of mistakes, collapsing formations, turn overs, missed assignments, etc.

 

continually bitching, complaining and criticizing the coaching is your Mojo and your entitled to your negativity,

 

Go Canucks Goi

Sounds good. 

[Angry Goose]

1 minute ago, canuck2288 said:

Weak side sag is frankly nothing more than the weak side winger covering a zone area and reacting to puck and player movement. 

 

yes we TRY to play that system but here is where it fails with Baumer is we stay static so, although deploy the system, we don't press and place puck pressure. This happens in normal coverage and the penalty kill. In addition, we rarely finish our d zone checks which in turn opens us up to the cycle 

 

simple fixes but does Baumer adapt? Nope

 

i tell you this as the preeminent hockey expert on this forum because i feel its my calling to spread hockey knowledge 

And weak side sag is typically how you defend in zone.   

 

If you want to players to apply more pressure on the puck, you need more guys like Motte, Hoglander and Chatfield. 

 

When the Canucks look static, I'm guessing fatigue is settling in and the on ice defenders are doing their best to not get beaten towards the middle or allow a pass through it.  Finishing your checks?  Personally, I want to see good body / puck seperation and good down low support/a clean break out.  It's 2-3 plays that require good execution.

 

When the Canucks can break out cleanly, their in zone issues are less of a concern.  

[oldnews]

11 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Weak side sag is frankly nothing more than the weak side winger covering a zone area and reacting to puck and player movement. 

 

yes we TRY to play that system but here is where it fails with Baumer is we stay static so, although deploy the system, we don't press and place puck pressure. This happens in normal coverage and the penalty kill. In addition, we rarely finish our d zone checks which in turn opens us up to the cycle 

 

simple fixes but does Baumer adapt? Nope

 

i tell you this as the preeminent hockey expert on this forum because i feel its my calling to spread hockey knowledge 

[PhillipBlunt]

12 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Weak side sag is frankly nothing more than the weak side winger covering a zone area and reacting to puck and player movement. 

 

yes we TRY to play that system but here is where it fails with Baumer is we stay static so, although deploy the system, we don't press and place puck pressure. This happens in normal coverage and the penalty kill. In addition, we rarely finish our d zone checks which in turn opens us up to the cycle 

 

simple fixes but does Baumer adapt? Nope

 

i tell you this as the preeminent hockey expert on this forum because i feel its my calling to spread hockey knowledge 

Once again, thank you for your time, 2288

[IBatch]

14 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Weak side sag is frankly nothing more than the weak side winger covering a zone area and reacting to puck and player movement. 

 

yes we TRY to play that system but here is where it fails with Baumer is we stay static so, although deploy the system, we don't press and place puck pressure. This happens in normal coverage and the penalty kill. In addition, we rarely finish our d zone checks which in turn opens us up to the cycle 

 

simple fixes but does Baumer adapt? Nope

 

i tell you this as the preeminent hockey expert on this forum because i feel its my calling to spread hockey knowledge 

[oldnews]

11 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Curious what people's opinions are on Juolevi being a healthy scratch? 

 

Personally I think it's good for him.  The college type schedule of off ice workout and games is probably a good mix for him   Given how little he has played it's ok for him to sit some games.  I do think Chatfield is the more ready defenseman too and Benny is playing well too which is a factor.  

these things don't tend to concern me.

first - we don't know that he's healthy - he could have a flu, cold, whatever

second - I always assume that Green has a lot of information we don't.

Additionally - Benn has been playing somewhat unexpectedly well (relative to last regular season) - and Chatfield is entirely capable of holding down/platooning on a '3rd pairing' - so whatever the reasons, can't be bothered to question or argue with it.

and if Juolevi is healthy - you make solid points as well - and there's also something to be said about the opportunity to coach him as he watches games - they can still work on his game when he's not in the lineup...

[PhillipBlunt]

16 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Curious what people's opinions are on Juolevi being a healthy scratch? 

 

Personally I think it's good for him.  The college type schedule of off ice workout and games is probably a good mix for him   Given how little he has played it's ok for him to sit some games.  I do think Chatfield is the more ready defenseman too and Benny is playing well too which is a factor.  

I hope he gets into a game soon. That being said, he's a rookie, as is Chatfield, and they will have to spell off the more experienced defensemen, who have been holding their own, especially Benn. 

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Classic.   Sedin/Gaudette/Lindros or whatever that is doesn't have to make an ass of himself - but i don't think Sedin/Gaudette/Lindros or whomever can help it.    I truly couldn't tell if he was being serious or sarcastic ... maybe some hockey knowledge but not sure about perspective 

Edited January 29, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I hope he gets into a game soon. That being said, he's a rookie, as is Chatfield, and they will have to spell off the more experienced defensemen, who have been holding their own, especially Benn. 

Yep.   When you win games - you don't make changes outside of inside info like lagging soreness or fatigue...

[bbllpp]

40 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Curious what people's opinions are on Juolevi being a healthy scratch? 

 

Personally I think it's good for him.  The college type schedule of off ice workout and games is probably a good mix for him   Given how little he has played it's ok for him to sit some games.  I do think Chatfield is the more ready defenseman too and Benny is playing well too which is a factor.  

I think it has as much to do with Edler-Schmidt not looking all that good together and with Hamonic out and Benn in, a guy like Green, who seems to want three RHD and three LHD, 5 LHD may not be doing his heart any good.

 

OJ needs to play, and any comments on him being beat to the outside just go back and look at the Chabot goal, even the best skaters in the game can get beat to the outside.

 

I’ve seen nothing from OJ so far that makes me doubt why he was drafted.  

Loved Chatters truculence last night though!

[BarnBurner]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

With all due respect, I do think a coaching change from Baumgartner would help the team. I hear what you're saying but the systems that the defense works off of aren't helping the team win. Against a team like Toronto or Tampa with far superior forwards, the defense usually is hemmed in it's own zone for the majority of their shifts. I don't think that all falls on the on-ice personnel and has nothing to do with the systems they run. 

I agree with this completely. This defensive system is WAY too passive. It's what I call, playing it safe type of hockey. Of course, you have to keep your positioning, but you also have to challenge the player in possession of the puck. Otherwise, you are continually allowing them to dictate the play. In my opinion, I always want my team to be attacking and pushing the play. It's a mindset. And the best defense is always a great offense. 

 

Edit: A prime example of challenging the opposition is Motte. That's why he causes so many take aways, which turn into scoring opportunities. The point is, you're always looking to gain possession of the puck, not sitting back like a sitting Duck. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by BarnBurner

[bbllpp]

34 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I hope he gets into a game soon. That being said, he's a rookie, as is Chatfield, and they will have to spell off the more experienced defensemen, who have been holding their own, especially Benn. 

Benn looks like a completely different player this year and has really calmed Hughes down in his own end

[Angry Goose]

42 minutes ago, oldnews said:

these things don't tend to concern me.

first - we don't know that he's healthy - he could have a flu, cold, whatever

second - I always assume that Green has a lot of information we don't.

Additionally - Benn has been playing somewhat unexpectedly well (relative to last regular season) - and Chatfield is entirely capable of holding down/platooning on a '3rd pairing' - so whatever the reasons, can't be bothered to question or argue with it.

and if Juolevi is healthy - you make solid points as well - and there's also something to be said about the opportunity to coach him as he watches games - they can still work on his game when he's not in the lineup...

Ok just don't laughi emoji react at any of my posts again unless I'm being intentionally silly OR I require a follow post that it was in good fun.

[bbllpp]

59 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Weak side sag is frankly nothing more than the weak side winger covering a zone area and reacting to puck and player movement. 

 

yes we TRY to play that system but here is where it fails with Baumer is we stay static so, although deploy the system, we don't press and place puck pressure. This happens in normal coverage and the penalty kill. In addition, we rarely finish our d zone checks which in turn opens us up to the cycle 

 

simple fixes but does Baumer adapt? Nope

 

i tell you this as the preeminent hockey expert on this forum because i feel its my calling to spread hockey knowledge 

Weak side sag:

 

ex-body builders asymmetric pectoral droop.