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A realistic analysis of Jim Benning's tenure so far

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21 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Jim Benning is among the least eloquent GMs in the league and in this market a good communicator is absolutely necessary. I'm not saying that the GM needs to be transparent. I'm saying that when they do talk, they need to be clear. I do not have much trust in Benning at all, but I can't tell if this is because he is genuinely a bad GM or because his is not well-spoken and perhaps not especially intelligent. 

J.B. does not B.S. as well as Ken Holland. Ken botched several of his trades/signings during the past 2 years and yet he is still very much liked among the Oiler fans. Generally speaking they do not pin the blame on him nor call for his job. 

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24 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

Generally speaking they do not pin the blame on him nor call for his job. 

He's only been there for like a year and a half and hasn't done anything drastic yet.

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I really hope to see JB continue in Vancouver. I'm sure he's feeling some pressure, and some of this situation is of his making (LE).

 

I don't think he's been the perfect GM or anything, but he has done something that no other GM has successfully done in the history of this team, and that's to really stock our cupboards with prime prospects and young talent. The work isn't done though and Covid was a unfortunate detour for the team as we would likely have been able to keep Toffoli at the very least.

 

Right now, this team really needs some practice time, they haven't really had any since the start of the season and with not having an exhibition schedule as well, its showing right now. We need some major work on defense, part of that is just systems work, some is figuring out personnel, and I think Tryamkin can go a long way towards helping us in our own end, but not likely till next year. All things being equal, he would have been here this year.

 

As we come out from under the LE contract (likely to be bought out at the end of the season), Baertschi dropping off the books and Luongo in another season, it really puts us in a solid cap position to roll new, younger players in, while making some smart acquisitions from other teams who are still really feeling the cap crunch (See Tampa for next season).

 

I think Pettersson and Hughes will sign 2 - 3 year bridges for around 7.5 million each, after this year, which will leave about 13 million for bringing back Tryamkin, bringing in Podkolzin. We'll likely pickup another 2.5 - 3 million in space from the Seattle expansion, so I look at this next season where JB will really be able to start to see the results of his drafting and shaping of this team.

 

I think 3 straight years of having either a winner or runner up for Calder trophy and its looking like we could easily have another runner up this year in Hoglander.

 

I have full confidence that JB will be able to get us to the cup final again and across the line this time. Just need another season or two of fine tuning and adjusting.

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2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Thanks for that if he was living in Timra it all makes  sense. In retrospect he's clearly the best forward in 2017, although Cale Makar taken 1 spot ahead of EP would have been another great choice, both very good.

 

As to Benning ( Trump in disguise) I've wanted to say that for a long time, I'm glad it was  you. I tend to think that was part and parcel of the Brackett being let go. The key to scouts are who can find a gem in the later rounds IMO. That shows who has a "hockey eye." You should get a quality player in the first round and the earlier you pick the better the chance ( FYG success in the first round is 66% but 25% beyond that )

 

 

I agree it was Inge and Ron was the voice in the room selling it, because Inge was in Sweden, and said he'd always go see EP play

Lol Trump comparisons, because of fan loyalty no matter what he does?

Lol i remember Trump saying years ago he could shoot people in the street and people would still elect him

Trump is loyal only to himself, are you suggesting that with JB as to why Linden, and scouts were let go?

 

I don't think anyone one person is responsible for scouting, I think the scouts get together and discuss the pros and cons of the players they have scouted and sell the GM on whom they should pick, He will decide on their recommendations, ceilings, Rankings and positions

Saying that, if JB was let go, who knows what our scouts that have been replaced are like now? (wish we had retained Malholtra too)

People should remember to, that our 2nd round picks we were getting since Linden took over, were almost as high as our 1st round picks for a decade

 

I think too much credit or discredit has been given to the GM regarding good or bad picks

The scouts rate and see the unproven players more than anyone and is their job to do

The coaches and GM should rate and evaluate the proven NHL talent before making a trade or purchase to see if they fit on the building of your team at the right price

I am not one to blindly accept that a player or Management can do no wrong, then slam them when they leave

I try to be objective

No one person is above the team, Like what was said, that it isn't important what is on the back of the jersey, it is what is on the front of it

I just want a team with purpose and determination, not plododding

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7 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Who were our top young gun impact players in 2014 ,that could be traded?

One of these things is not like the other.

It is who gets traded now 2021 that are like them

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11 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

I really hope to see JB continue in Vancouver. I'm sure he's feeling some pressure, and some of this situation is of his making (LE).

 

I don't think he's been the perfect GM or anything, but he has done something that no other GM has successfully done in the history of this team, and that's to really stock our cupboards with prime prospects and young talent. The work isn't done though and Covid was a unfortunate detour for the team as we would likely have been able to keep Toffoli at the very least.

 

Right now, this team really needs some practice time, they haven't really had any since the start of the season and with not having an exhibition schedule as well, its showing right now. We need some major work on defense, part of that is just systems work, some is figuring out personnel, and I think Tryamkin can go a long way towards helping us in our own end, but not likely till next year. All things being equal, he would have been here this year.

 

As we come out from under the LE contract (likely to be bought out at the end of the season), Baertschi dropping off the books and Luongo in another season, it really puts us in a solid cap position to roll new, younger players in, while making some smart acquisitions from other teams who are still really feeling the cap crunch (See Tampa for next season).

 

I think Pettersson and Hughes will sign 2 - 3 year bridges for around 7.5 million each, after this year, which will leave about 13 million for bringing back Tryamkin, bringing in Podkolzin. We'll likely pickup another 2.5 - 3 million in space from the Seattle expansion, so I look at this next season where JB will really be able to start to see the results of his drafting and shaping of this team.

 

I think 3 straight years of having either a winner or runner up for Calder trophy and its looking like we could easily have another runner up this year in Hoglander.

 

I have full confidence that JB will be able to get us to the cup final again and across the line this time. Just need another season or two of fine tuning and adjusting.

The strange thing is that we played some of our best hockey with Loui playing together with Horvat.

Don't you remember the playin and playoff when Horvat did a great job? Loui took the pressure of his shoulders back then. 

 

On top of that, Benning has showed our younger players that he doesn't care about the players when he got rid of Stecher, Tanev, Marky, Fantenberg and Toffoli.

That means Benning show that as a player you don't have to be anything that resemblence loyalty. 

 

A GM has to show the players how to act leading by example. Benning can't do that...

 

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I am listening on Sportsnet the post-post game show and the early talking points on what good will firing Jim Benning do?

 

I would argue that firing Jim Benning is to prevent from him from doing a dumb move to try to save his job. He might do a desperate trade possibly trading away picks and a prospect for a player. Desperate people will do desperate things.

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9 hours ago, Timråfan said:

The strange thing is that we played some of our best hockey with Loui playing together with Horvat.

Don't you remember the playin and playoff when Horvat did a great job? Loui took the pressure of his shoulders back then. 

 

On top of that, Benning has showed our younger players that he doesn't care about the players when he got rid of Stecher, Tanev, Marky, Fantenberg and Toffoli.

That means Benning show that as a player you don't have to be anything that resemblence loyalty. 

 

A GM has to show the players how to act leading by example. Benning can't do that...

 

You're GM, you've just traded for Toffoli, about 2 weeks before the league pauses due to Covid. You've just been informed, 6 weeks earlier, that the cap should increase by about 4 - 5 million next season and suddenly, you're facing a flat cap, staying at 81.5 million for at least one season, most likely 3 - 4. You've got Pettersson and Hughes on the horizon (this coming off season) who need increases, probably to around 7.5 million, 2 - 3 year bridge each. Among other things, you're dealing with 3 million in dead space from Loungo retiring from the NHL, this is a penalty from past management.

 

Every other team is refusing to pickup cap space because they are ALL stuck in the exact same situation.

 

So, tell me what your plan is to keep them? 

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6 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

You're GM, you've just traded for Toffoli, about 2 weeks before the league pauses due to Covid. You've just been informed, 6 weeks earlier, that the cap should increase by about 4 - 5 million next season and suddenly, you're facing a flat cap, staying at 81.5 million for at least one season, most likely 3 - 4. You've got Pettersson and Hughes on the horizon (this coming off season) who need increases, probably to around 7.5 million, 2 - 3 year bridge each. Among other things, you're dealing with 3 million in dead space from Loungo retiring from the NHL, this is a penalty from past management.

 

Every other team is refusing to pickup cap space because they are ALL stuck in the exact same situation.

 

So, tell me what your plan is to keep them? 

I think a good plan, would have never been up against the cap in the first place, like you were a top Stanley Cup team

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4 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I think a good plan, would have never been up against the cap in the first place, like you were a top Stanley Cup team

Spending to the cap IS a message to the players, that you are willing to do and spend what is necessary to be competitive and win games.

 

Last season, before the Pandemic, this team looked like it was ready to take another step. Yes, we have players who needed to be removed from the team and the fact that they are here at all is the fault of management. Fixing that when all teams are in a crunch due to something that has NEVER HAPPENED in this history of modern hockey, isn't as easy as some fans think.

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14 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

You're GM, you've just traded for Toffoli, about 2 weeks before the league pauses due to Covid. You've just been informed, 6 weeks earlier, that the cap should increase by about 4 - 5 million next season and suddenly, you're facing a flat cap, staying at 81.5 million for at least one season, most likely 3 - 4. You've got Pettersson and Hughes on the horizon (this coming off season) who need increases, probably to around 7.5 million, 2 - 3 year bridge each. Among other things, you're dealing with 3 million in dead space from Loungo retiring from the NHL, this is a penalty from past management.

 

Every other team is refusing to pickup cap space because they are ALL stuck in the exact same situation.

 

So, tell me what your plan is to keep them? 

Definately not signing Holtby, relax and not sign Schmidt, Harmonic, Hawryluk.... How many millions is that?

I wouldn't have signed Meyers either. 

So 18 mill tied up there. 

A cheap goalie around 1,5 mill, Stecher, Tanev,  Fantenberg, Leivo and Toffoli is around 13 mill.

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21 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Thanks for that if he was living in Timra it all makes  sense. In retrospect he's clearly the best forward in 2017, although Cale Makar taken 1 spot ahead of EP would have been another great choice, both very good.

This is probably because Inge is almost religious when he speaks of the players he value. It smithens... Just look at Benning get Dahlen after Inge said Petey and Dahlen are the best young players. 

 

21 hours ago, Fred65 said:

As to Benning ( Trump in disguise) I've wanted to say that for a long time, I'm glad it was  you. 

I really hope the club pay attention to how bad that is for team morale. 

If you want players to be loyal to the club great fans is one of the best reasons. But the GM is there to support the players and really show that he got their back.

Wich Benning has shown multiple times now that he isn't. 

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Just now, Timråfan said:

Definately not signing Holtby, relax and not sign Schmidt, Harmonic, Hawryluk.... How many millions is that?

I wouldn't have signed Meyers either. 

So 18 mill tied up there. 

A cheap goalie around 1,5 mill, Stecher, Tanev,  Fantenberg, Leivo and Toffoli is around 13 mill.

We didn't sign Schmidt, Holtby is solid transitional goalie who will likely be taken by Seattle next year. We needed someone who could step in and mentor Demko through the next stages of his development, and bringing in a guy who has dominated in Goal and won a cup is not a bad way to do it.

 

Hamonic 1.25 million and Hawryluk, 800k are solid depth signings. Hamonic has a solid defense first background, Hawryluk shows promise. Neither of those guys hurt us as a team, they provide solid depth.

 

Myers is normally a pretty solid D, but none of our guys are playing like they know which end of the rink is which right now.

 

Some have suggested that we should replace Green, but how do you implement any system, including new ones, if you have zero practice time, which is exactly what this team has had since day one of the season.

 

Fantenberg, you'll notice that NO ONE picked him up, he's playing somewhere else now.

Stecher, was really unfortunate to see him leave, but he wasn't the answer to our long-term defense issues either.

 

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3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

We didn't sign Schmidt,

Is it better if I say pay his salary?

 

Quote

Holtby is solid transitional goalie who will likely be taken by Seattle next year. We needed someone who could step in and mentor Demko through the next stages of his development, and bringing in a guy who has dominated in Goal and won a cup is not a bad way to do it.

I don't buy that argument. 

Tha goal coach is much more important.

Analysing Holtby and the defence ha had around him is what I Should do before hiring him. And I wouldn't hire him for more than 2 mill when we are in cap crunch. Insane of Benning. 

 

Quote

Hamonic 1.25 million and Hawryluk, 800k are solid depth signings. Hamonic has a solid defense first background, Hawryluk shows promise. Neither of those guys hurt us as a team, they provide solid depth.

Leivo, Stecher and Fantenberg suited us better

 

Quote

Myers is normally a pretty solid D, but none of our guys are playing like they know which end of the rink is which right now.

He's killing us and fans here look at his size and marvel... 

 

Quote

Some have suggested that we should replace Green, but how do you implement any system, including new ones, if you have zero practice time, which is exactly what this team has had since day one of the season.

I don' t change lines constantly. 

 

Quote

Fantenberg, you'll notice that NO ONE picked him up, he's playing somewhere else now.

Stecher, was really unfortunate to see him leave, but he wasn't the answer to our long-term defense issues either.

 

Well, Fantenberg was almost Edler lite playing here and definately better than Benn for 2 mill.

 

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33 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Is it better if I say pay his salary?

 

I don't buy that argument. 

Tha goal coach is much more important.

Analysing Holtby and the defence ha had around him is what I Should do before hiring him. And I wouldn't hire him for more than 2 mill when we are in cap crunch. Insane of Benning. 

 

Leivo, Stecher and Fantenberg suited us better

 

He's killing us and fans here look at his size and marvel... 

 

I don' t change lines constantly. 

 

Well, Fantenberg was almost Edler lite playing here and definately better than Benn for 2 mill.

 

I have my opinions and I'm sticking by them. Everything we're talking about right now is speculation. I still think though, that if we didn't have a schedule that was this extreme, right out of the gate, that we would have having different discussions now.

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57 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Definately not signing Holtby, relax and not sign Schmidt, Harmonic, Hawryluk.... How many millions is that?

I wouldn't have signed Meyers either. 

So 18 mill tied up there. 

A cheap goalie around 1,5 mill, Stecher, Tanev,  Fantenberg, Leivo and Toffoli is around 13 mill.

Quite honestly the common theme from most the players that have left is we never heard back from management. To be honest  I suspect Benning may be aware and embarrassed of the self inflicted Cap  Hell he's in. He new what was coming for a long time and yet seemed to fall into the current plight rather than plan ahead. That's how I see it and God knows I may well be wrong. But it's a question Aquaman has to ask

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14 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I have my opinions and I'm sticking by them. Everything we're talking about right now is speculation. I still think though, that if we didn't have a schedule that was this extreme, right out of the gate, that we would have having different discussions now.

I bring up Myers also, as some bring up Loui. 

The expensive contracts shouldn't be here.

It's like Benning thinks he must reach the limit. 

Think of every young prospect that don't get a chance because all the bonus money is too expensive for the club. 

So I don't just talk about speculation. 

It is a different view of how to use up the cap space. 

Bennings way is there on the table. 

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4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Quite honestly the common theme from most the players that have left is we never heard back from management. To be honest  I suspect Benning may be aware and embarrassed of the self inflicted Cap  Hell he's in. He new what was coming for a long time and yet seemed to fall into the current plight rather than plan ahead. That's how I see it and God knows I may well be wrong. But it's a question Aquaman has to ask

If something like that stops him from talking to players he should go back to only watch videos... A GM is paid to live by the phone and talk up everything about the club, always. 

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On 1/28/2021 at 12:49 PM, 13231 said:

I've been following this forum since 2008 and it's always great to read different perspectives about this team that we all love. Although I've hardly posted over the years, I feel compelled to now because I think we have a team that is unlike any other we've had before; at least within the time frame that I've been following the Canucks (the 02-03 season, the glorious WCE days). 

 

The person at the crux of moulding this roster is the ever polarizing Jim Benning. Love him or hate him, you have to admit that his run as GM, from what he inherited to what he is building up, has been unprecedented. The following is my personal perspective on what his run has been like, and why we must be a little more patient and let him see his vision through. 

 

The end of the Gillis era was one of the most frustrating times for me as a fan. The team had no clear direction, random trades were made on a whim, the embarrassing goalie "controversy" & how that was handled, on top of the fact that we all knew the Sedins had a few more good years in them that were being completely wasted had all of us pretty exhausted. When Benning came in as GM in 2014, it was clear through interviews with him & Linden that the team was still aiming to compete, and moves made in the subsequent couple of years were a clear indication of that objective. Good or bad, it's pretty accurate to ascertain that ownership believed that the team could still be competitive, and moved steadily in that direction. I see every move made in this era as an attempt at a long shot playoff run, whether it's the Loui signing, the various trades, and all else. But things just did not work out, and finally during the 2017-2018 it became clear that we were undergoing a full fledged rebuild. This is where my assessment of Benning's tenure truly starts. 

 

If you guys recall, the 2017-2018 season started off quite strong until injuries decimated us. But Boes & Bo had solid seasons and there was this guy named Pettersson that was tearing it up and breaking records in the SHL. I remember feeling optimistic having 3 legitimate young players on the come up, right as the Sedins played their final season. When was the last time we had something like that? Keep in mind this was just about three years ago, which is not that long of a time span at all. We have witnessed a team that lost its two faces of franchise, was going through misguided hopes of playoff runs, and a guaranteed basement dweller go into its deepest run since 2011 and legitimately in talks of being a long term contender within the span of three years. 


I think a lot of fans would benefit to broaden their perspective on what is going on here. Everything seems to be evaluated on such black & white terms, whereas we have a team in hand that is so ahead of schedule and the envy of many fan bases around the league (whether they want to admit it or not). I look at Detroit, Colorado, Carolina, Toronto, Arizona, Buffalo, Minnesota, Edmonton, even Calgary & Montreal, and how long it took some of them to become competitive. I can't help but feel that some of us really take our situation for granted.

 

On a few critiques that Benning gets, especially pertaining to this off season: There is no way I would be comfortable in having Marky & Tanev to those contracts long term. The only guy we lost that would make sense to still have is Tofolli, but you can't overlook the flat cap & the shady Lou recapture situation that blind sided us. Regardless, I have immense faith in Hog & it wouldn't surprise me if he ends the season with more points than Tofolli. His overall 200 foot game has so much potential as well. On the topic of the bottom six contracts, I agree they might be a bit overpaid, but look at where we were when we signed those guys, that veteran presence was essential. And there is no way we make a playoff run last summer without the likes of Sutter & Beagle. That's another aspect you cannot look at in black and white terms because the value of these guys is what teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, and currently Ottawa have all lacked. It is entirely unreasonable to believe that this season or last would be seasons we'd be competing for the cup; the time frame when these contracts hold their greatest weight on the cap overall. When it's said & done, especially with majority of those contracts coming off the books as soon as this off season, I think our team long term in context of creating a team culture and helping our young players develop, has been better off with those guys being around than without them.

 

I want to close by again underscoring the fact that we are in an unprecedented situation. The WCE era and the Sedin era are the two most prolific times our team has had in the past 20 years. But both eras had a 3-4 year window, as those players peaked a bit later in their careers. With the team we have now, we have already gone further than the WCE ever did, and this is a team that has truly only been assembled and taken direction in the last 3 years. The window here to be legitimate contenders seems to be open for several years to come. Our core is young, and they are coming into their own in a positive and competitive team culture & environment, that many other rebuilding teams lacked. And the man at the helm of this has had his ups & downs but he's done something in the last three years that majority of teams around the league would take in a heart beat. So let's keep our perspective focused on the long term, understand the gray areas that challenged our team, and ultimately enjoy this era. I will openly admit I was wrong if management takes a blatant wrong turn, but with the hand that was dealt turning into what we have now, I am greatly looking forward ahead to being a Canucks fan. 

 

Cheers & take care guys

 

 

I stopped reading right there

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