[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 4, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP

[khay]

34 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

Toronto Montreal in the second round will be a must watch blood bathe for the ages.

 

It’s a travesty there probably won’t be fans in the stands to watch

 

Hell get me to playoff hockey, idc if the Canucks are in or not, they were never winning the cup this year anyways 

I don't know, both teams might already be in the cruise mode with all the wins they will be getting off of us.

 

They might just save their energies for the division finals.

[iinatcc]

 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

I sidestepped it because it wasn’t a valid point to me. You think the players  and coaches are reading the forum and feel kicked when they’re down? Trust me. Neither of us is that important.
 

Just to be clear, I was engaging you as fellow board member (who usually agrees with what you have to say but disagreed with your approach here) and not as a Moderator telling you that you can’t post a counter point. 
 

We are here to enforce the rules, not to make you conform to our opinion on the team or the fans. If there was an issue with the rules I would resolve it directly. Until then I’m just another dude on a sports forum that hates seeing his team lose to the Leafs. 
 

Cheers. 

Venting/ranting is like punching a table.  You'd think it would be 'cathartic' = make you feel better, but it doesn't - it has precisely the opposite (snowball) effect.

Is that going to help 'survive' the losing...? 

 

Anyhow - it's fair to say that my 'approach' is no 'better'. I shouldn't bother posting the day of a loss.

 

I get it.  I got my first jersey in the midst of the Jets record 23 game losing / 30 game winless streak - and took a lot of crap wearing that jersey.  No fun in the Oiler heyday.  My teams have never won anything.  The Canucks and Jets - not just losses, but lost a team (to a desert) entirely.    Decades and decades of it.

 

But I think that rabid Winnipeg culture (a generalization, true, but) - where the team may suck, but they are their team, regardless - is the "winning" mentality in the end, even if the team doesn't necessarily (and yeah, there are good lessons for us in sport, even for 'fans').   It aint about 'accepting losing' - if kicking players when they're down doesn't effect them, neither does fans 'not accepting losing' make a team win.   I don't think the players need to be hanging on PGT posts for the point to be valid.  It doesn't mean suffering homer delusions either - it means they are their team, simple as that - criticize away when necessary, but keep the bottom line in mind.  For me, it's almost one of the fundamentals of sport - or there's really no point.   The odds are always that your team is going to either not play, or lose the last game of the season (29 of 30).  Dwelling on expectations/entitlements are a bad gamble.   If the bottom line is incessantly to rip it apart....that's easy, but really is a waste that has a snowball effect - like punching the table over it.  I don't know - I think I've probably been here too long lol.

[DownUndaCanuck]

4 hours ago, Monty said:

Tyler Myers - 6M 
Loui Eriksson - 6M 
Brandon Sutter - 4.375M
Michael Ferland - 3.5M
Roberto Luengo 3M
Antoinne Roussel - 3M
Jay Beagle - 3M 
Jordie Benn - 2M 
Sven Bartschi 2.291M
Ryan Spooner - 1.033M

Myers - decent top 4 defencema

Sutter - one of the best 3C in the league

Ferland - on LTIR so doest count

Luongo - wasn't Benning's fault

Beagle - arguably best 4C penalty killer in the league

Benn - 6th defenceman isn't going to be free

 

The rest absolutely agree with though but you're not going to get top 4 defencemen and decent two way centers in this league for 800K

[DownUndaCanuck]

This team is gunning for the worst mess in the league and sadly is in the Detroit/Ottawa convo now.

 

JB is going to be forced into a mid season coaching change.

[DefCon1]

32 minutes ago, singing chef said:

RE: #2 above - Hughes was skating alongside Matthews, admiring his technique;  should have either tied up his stick or laid the body on him.  Matthews should never have been allowed to touch that puck.  Bottom line - Hughes is neither big enough nor heavy enough to be effective in situations like that.  The team needs some BIG defenders with mean streaks, and I mean SEVERAL big defenders.

SEVERAL big defenders? you mean like Myers and Edler??? Yeah no, we actually need defenders than can be reliable defensively rather than big pylons. Ottawa has SEVERAL big defenders yet look where they are now. Canucks should have traded for Joel Edmonsun when he was available. That was a good big defender that could play D. Also would have been better to sign Brodie instead of trading for Schmidt.

[Angry Goose]

35 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

I hope I wake up to an Adam Gaudette of Jake Virtanen trade. 

 

Something has to give. We don't have the manpower. Do we know hamonic's return date? If we can get him back at last season form maybe we can stop the blowouts. I don't care about the losses I just don't want to be blown out in 3 game sets all season.

I can live with Jake.  Gaudette I could definitely risk a trade right now.  If I could move heaven and earth to trade Myers I would.  He's been too much of a non factor in the d zone.  But then again I doubt JB has much job security so to do a trade like that.  

 

I guess if there was a big shake up roster wise you'd probably have a new GM do it.  I wonder.

 

[oldnews]

 

26 minutes ago, khay said:

Who is the top pair Dman?

 

For Hughes to be in that #1 pairing category, he has to possess the puck for the majority of the time he is on the ice. For whatever reason, that's not happening consistently enough. If we don't have the puck and Hughes in out on the ice, he is far from #1 pairing in terms of defensively abilities like breaking up plays.

 

QH: offensive/PP specialist.

Edler: #2/3 very well balanced player.

Schmidt: #3 dman with better puck moving abilities than defensive abilities.

Myers: #3/4 dman, similar as Edler with slightly better offensive instincts but poorer defensive abilities.

Hamonic: #6 dman. Out with injury.

Juolevi/Benn/Chatfield: #6/#7

 

The lower end of our defence is getting punished over and over again. Chatfield and Benn looked good for a bit but they have had trouble catching up to the speed at which the Leafs and the Habs play with. 

 

IMO, there's no quick fix. We need QH to rise up to the challenge and we need another top 3 defender.

 

I think that's a good take.

And defense is also never simply about defensemen - it's about units that include forward lines.

Top line is getting killed on 'possession' - Hughes similarly struggline (to be expected) - but aren't finishing at the level they need to to close that gap (they produce great chances, but will need to finish) - and the powerplay is sputtering as well.

To make things worse - Horvat's line is also getting beaten 5 on 5 - in spite of both the bottom six lines performing fairly well.

When Horvat has 2.6 on ice goals for, 3.9 against per 60 - and not really handling particularly hard minutes (as when they're missing another center, or Gaudette centers a line that needs sheltering) - then the team is probably in trouble.  Both top 6 lines are struggling - and it doesn't really help take much pressure off the blueline.

 

I also think the that concept of a #1, #2 etc is oversimplified, particularly in the 'modern' game.

 

Might make more sense to rate a defenseman on both criteria.

Ie a # X offensively, and #X defensively.

 

Hughes is absolutely not a #1.  A #1 is a top producing D that is also a primary shutdown D - a two way D. 

 

Hughes would be a 1/6

Edler may be a 3/2

Myers a 3/3 or 4

Schmidt a 2/4?

Tanev would have been a 4 or 5/1

Realistically - there is the range of deployment - matchups to sheltering, ozone to dzone starts, powerplay to penalty kill - some guys are "top 4" in one respect and not the other....

Edited February 5, 2021 by oldnews

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

I can live with Jake.  Gaudette I could definitely risk a trade right now.  If I could move heaven and earth to trade Myers I would.  He's been too much of a non factor in the d zone.  But then again I doubt JB has much job security so to do a trade like that.  

 

I guess if there was a big shake up roster wise you'd probably have a new GM do it.  I wonder.

 

Yeah at this point any big signings should be by a new GM. Benning has made way too many mistakes already in signings especially Eriksson and Myers, not to mention hefty contracts to Sutter, Roussell and Beagle. If I was Aqua man  I would be hesitant to allow Benning to sign any contracts with the number of times he has overpaid players. I miss Gillis and his Capologist, he always signed players usually under their market value.

[Squamfan]

9 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Myers - decent top 4 defencema

Sutter - one of the best 3C in the league

Ferland - on LTIR so doest count

Luongo - wasn't Benning's fault

Beagle - arguably best 4C penalty killer in the league

Benn - 6th defenceman isn't going to be free

 

The rest absolutely agree with though but you're not going to get top 4 defencemen and decent two way centers in this league for 800K

Weisbrod?

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, DefCon1 said:

Yeah at this point any big signings should be by a new GM. Benning has made way too many mistakes already in signings especially Eriksson and Myers, not to mention hefty contracts to Sutter, Roussell and Beagle. If I was Aqua man  I would be hesitant to allow Benning to sign any contracts with the number of times he has overpaid players. I miss Gillis and his Capologist, he always signed players usually under their market value.

Well, it was Benning and Co., that did let Lawrence Gilman go (the capologist). How idiotic was that? 

 

This has to be mismanagement at its worse. The team isn't playing well. There is suspicion that the team doesn't feel like management has their back. Would explain a lot in terms of their play on the ice. They're not buying into the system that Green has implemented. They're not playing for each other. They don't look like a team right now. Maybe the way that management let go and treated Toffoli, Markström, and Tanev really has affected this young core of players. What else could it be? 

 

And then you have Pettersson who's changed agents a few weeks ago. Is that a shot towards Benning and the rest of the management team? What is he conveying to management with an agent change? 

 

[N4ZZY]

3 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

Weisbrod?

&^@# Weisbrod. He can go with Benning. 

 

[N4ZZY]

I would not have mind tonight that they lost to the Leafs, as much as I hate them. 

 

But it's how they lost tonight. I tuned into the game, when it was 2-1. Next thing I know it was 3-1, then 3-2, and there was hope again. Then it was 4-2, then 5-2, and then the damn &^@#ing wheels came off again. Thank God that it's only 56 games. I cannot imagine an 82 game season like this. We should be much better than this, and the fact that we're not, says that it's either a &^@#ing mismanagement, or a &^@#ing coaching disaster. What the &^@# is Baumer doing with the defense? Is Green's system that &^@#ing hard to learn? Goddamnit, this team frustrates me. 

 

Anyone else frustrated??

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by N4ZZY

[DefCon1]

18 minutes ago, khay said:

Who is the top pair Dman?

 

For Hughes to be in that #1 pairing category, he has to possess the puck for the majority of the time he is on the ice. For whatever reason, that's not happening consistently enough. If we don't have the puck and Hughes in out on the ice, he is far from #1 pairing in terms of defensively abilities like breaking up plays.

 

QH: offensive/PP specialist.

Edler: #2/3 very well balanced player.

Schmidt: #3 dman with better puck moving abilities than defensive abilities.

Myers: #3/4 dman, similar as Edler with slightly better offensive instincts but poorer defensive abilities.

Hamonic: #6 dman. Out with injury.

Juolevi/Benn/Chatfield: #6/#7

 

The lower end of our defence is getting punished over and over again. Chatfield and Benn looked good for a bit but they have had trouble catching up to the speed at which the Leafs and the Habs play with. 

 

IMO, there's no quick fix. We need QH to rise up to the challenge and we need another top 3 defender.

 

I tend to disagree with you regarding Edler and Myers. Both D men are barely top 4 at this point. There is no way Edler is a number 2 or 3 on any playoff team. For example, where do you rank Edler on an average team like Flames which has Giordano, Tanev, Andersson, Hanifin, Valimaki??? Edler is only as strong as the D he is paired with. He makes lots of mistakes and is now way too slow in moving the puck out of the zone or retrieving pucks. Myers used to be a bottom pairing D on the Jets. What has happened here is Benning over valuing players we have and not seeing their decline. If Hughes was our number 1 last year  Tanev was our number 2 and our number 1 guy for PK. What we have here is a potential young elite D man playing, a number 3 D man in schmidt, and bottom pairing D men trying to play defense. What we are missing is a true number 1/2 D man that is similar to a Giordano, and a second pairing D man similar to a Jake Muzzin or Tanev. 

[N4ZZY]

18 hours ago, Squamfan said:

 

Jim has never been very good with the media. Sometimes you just don't say certain things. Saying that they ran out of time, does not come across well. I don't understand how he doesn't understand that. I get the sense that he may not survive the downward spiral this team is on. If he does survive, it's going to be at Green's expense. 

 

Lots of questions with this team. Didn't think we would be competing with Ottawa to be worse in the division. 

 

[DefCon1]

4 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I would not have mind tonight that they lost to the Leafs, as much as I hate them. 

 

But it's how they lost tonight. I tuned into the game, when it was 2-1. Next thing I know it was 3-1, then 3-2, and there was hope again. Then it was 4-2, then 5-2, and then the damn &^@#ing wheels came off again. Thank God that it's only 56 games. I cannot imagine an 82 game season like this. We should be much better than this, and the fact that we're not, says that it's either a &^@#ing mismanagement, or a &^@#ing coaching disaster. What the &^@# is Baumer doing with the defense? Is Green's system that &^@#ing hard to learn? Goddamnit, this team frustrates me. 

 

Anyone else frustrated??

 

The problem is two folds, we have an inexperienced defensive coach teaching our defense how to play a style that doesnt suit them. Another problem is that our defensemen are not that great in executing that plan or system because they simply dont have the ability.

[JeremyCuddles]

At first, I was pissed cause I got a new job that had me working 3pm-11. But now, not so much. Watching this team embarass the jersey isn't worth seeing live. The agony of defeat is much less agonizing when you don't watch it unfold live. Honestly, as a Benning defender. I am at the point where I am okay moving on from him if it means moving on from the coaching staff. This roster is too talented to be getting spanked this hard by everyone not named Ottawa.

[DefCon1]

3 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

At first, I was pissed cause I got a new job that had me working 3pm-11. But now, not so much. Watching this team embarass the jersey isn't worth seeing live. The agony of defeat is much less agonizing when you don't watch it unfold live. Honestly, as a Benning defender. I am at the point where I am okay moving on from him if it means moving on from the coaching staff. This roster is too talented to be getting spanked this hard by everyone not named Ottawa.

We do have holes after the off season Benning had, so we were actually more talented last season. 

[DefCon1]

26 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

&^@# Weisbrod. He can go with Benning. 

 

The minute we hired Weisbrod is how everything went downhill. From not retaining Judd Brackett, and Malhotra to letting key players walk.

[Lazurus]

3 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

At first, I was pissed cause I got a new job that had me working 3pm-11. But now, not so much. Watching this team embarass the jersey isn't worth seeing live. The agony of defeat is much less agonizing when you don't watch it unfold live. Honestly, as a Benning defender. I am at the point where I am okay moving on from him if it means moving on from the coaching staff. This roster is too talented to be getting spanked this hard by everyone not named Ottawa.

Not until he is gone will all his unachievments be charted, most likely right here in this forum. How many time Gillis had a beer was reported here after. Do you think that Benning's religion which preaches non competition will come to the forefront?

 

1 minute ago, DefCon1 said:

We do have holes after the off season Benning had, so we were actually more talented last season. 

How more talented, players got older, much slower and the defence, man the defence. I will keep hammering on it Hughes has been on the ice for half the team's total goals against. 26 goals against.

More talented at answering meaningless questions that they can't do much more than apologize each time.