N4ZZY Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Don't see us coming back from 4 games below .500. Depends! I think if the Canucks lose 3 out of 4 against Calgary, then the season's over at that point. If they lose all four against the Flames, then it's definitely over. It would be an exercise for jobs basically for next year. I still don't understand how Green doesn't have an extension. A lame duck coach this season, how does management expect Green to handle things without any sense of security? And the players? They probably see how management has made their team worse, and then on top of it all, treat their coach like $&!#. This team has bigger problems than just on the ice - a lot of it is internal as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImConfused Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, sockeye said: I'm sick and tired of this crap after being a fan for 50 effing years. Good lord I hope I'm not saying this when I hit my 50-year fandom mark - we better have a cup or two by then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rubik Posted February 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 hours ago, b3. said: These guys pass up so many good shooting attempts. I’m sitting on my couch eating pizza so I know what I’m talking about. reminds me of this 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 53 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Depends! I think if the Canucks lose 3 out of 4 against Calgary, then the season's over at that point. If they lose all four against the Flames, then it's definitely over. It would be an exercise for jobs basically for next year. I still don't understand how Green doesn't have an extension. A lame duck coach this season, how does management expect Green to handle things without any sense of security? And the players? They probably see how management has made their team worse, and then on top of it all, treat their coach like $&!#. This team has bigger problems than just on the ice - a lot of it is internal as well. You've really got to be kidding me. You really think Green has earned that extension? You are so quick to point out the mistakes of Benning, yet you give the coach a pass for the numerous mistakes he's made. Canucks should move on from Green and everyone else. I hope those people find jobs elsewhere though. I don't wish them bad fates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImConfused Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Dazzle said: You've really got to be kidding me. You really think Green has earned that extension? You are so quick to point out the mistakes of Benning, yet you give the coach a pass for the numerous mistakes he's made. Canucks should move on from Green and everyone else. I hope those people find jobs elsewhere though. I don't wish them bad fates. And what the hell is Benning doing not getting Eriksson's contract extension ready? Didn't he learn his lesson with all our UFAs that walked this season?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Squamfan said: I don’t understand Twitter sometimes. I went to that tweet, and then clicked on the #firebenning hashtag, just to read what people are saying. And then I get this: So, returned with the “top” #firebenning tweets is one from the official team account, saying “Mark your calendars” and listing off theme nights? Are the Canucks gonna do a “Fire Benning” theme night? And which date should I mark on my calendar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Darius said: We have been here before, As an old guy on this board i get the sense we need to calm things down. This is all very similar to what happened about 30 years ago. The period leading up to the Stanley Cup final 94 team started with the team taking a big step forward in 89. Rookie Linden plus a group of fantastic role players got the team to the playoffs and took the cup winning flames to 7 games. That was the best the team had looked in 5 years. Reminds me of how this current team took a step forward in the playoff bubble after 4 or 5 years of misery. We had our hopes up in both periods! The Canucks then took two steps back in 90 and 91. The analogy here is that right now are like we were from 90 to 91. At the time, just like now, it was a disappointing period after getting our hopes up from making the playoffs and coming within a goal post of eliminating a stanley cup calibre team (Calgary). The team also lost a key piece in 90- Paul Reinhart . It felt like he left a big hole on the roster. Reminds me of the holes Tanev and Marky seem to have left now. The coach was Bob McCammon. He was even a Jack Adams runner up in 89. In 91 the team was in a losing streak and there was one particular game where everyone knew McCammon would get canned. The team played as hard as they could, they even outplayed the other team for the most part, but they lost and Bob got fired. The team simply was not good enough. Pat Quinn took over. In 91-92 Bure joined the team and Quinn started to rebuild the D and brought in the right mix of players. After a couple years they eventually made it to game 7 of the 1994 stanley cup final. What I learned from that period: 1) It wasnt McCammon's fault the team regressed in the early 90s- the team needed more pieces. It wasnt clear until we got the better rosters (92-94) to compare what McCammon had to work with in retrospect. I get the same sense here - this isnt all on Green. 2)There was a 5 year period leading up to the 94 team where there were 1 step forward 2 steps back at some points. Important players came and went. I get the same sense here. We moved forward now we are going to step back. As in the early 90s this might be a pause before we jump ahead again. We could draft a stud d man this year and eventually add Podz to the roster..., and whoever the GM is could make the 3 or 4 changes probably needed to put this team over the top in the next 2- 3 years. It happened before it can happen again - we just need to zoom out a little. I dont think Green survives beyond this year - but when its all said and done i think we will look back and see him as another stepping stone in the process where he will be the casualty of circumstance- the roster is still missing key pieces and some key pieces were moved - the same as it was in 91 when McCammon got canned. Its all a process. I think this roster has more to work with than what Quinn had to work with in 91. Different world in many ways back then. One noticeable difference....no salary cap. Two, we didn’t have ownership with deep pockets and the funds to spend that money. Made the job alot more difficult back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, LAorVancouver said: This is not hidden knowledge, its obvious and has been pointed out by TSN crew as well as our managment. It will reflect in the contract negotiations as well, the inability to take a hit and perform well in the defensive zone will limit Hughes contract to about 7 mill a year. Agreed. However fans in Vancouver are so desperate for a number 1 dman they forget what an actual number 1 dman really offers. Last year they wanted to throw 10 million at him. When anyone suggested otherwise, they got their panties in a twist. We have too many soft one dimensional players on this club and pretending we don't isnt helping any of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: I don’t understand Twitter sometimes. I went to that tweet, and then clicked on the #firebenning hashtag, just to read what people are saying. And then I get this: So, returned with the “top” #firebenning tweets is one from the official team account, saying “Mark your calendars” and listing off theme nights? Are the Canucks gonna do a “Fire Benning” theme night? And which date should I mark on my calendar? It's because this Ty Pardy guy replied and you got the whole tweet, unless you are Ty Pardy I do not find this strange at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GritGrinder Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 5 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said: I remember the 94 finals but reading this provided alot of context and thanks for taking the time to write it. Perhaps one similarity I can add that might be similar to both periods is - Pods will be the Bure of this era (?); and the one trade that added alot of pieces was the trade with St Louis were got: Ronning, Courtney, Momesso and Dirk (if I remember correctly it was Quinn who made that trade). I miss those days of no cap were a team can build dynasties but despite the cap drama it does provide a more competitive league. Possible to hear your opinion on how the league is now compared to those long forgotten days. Completely different players. A couple of examples: Bure scored 35 goals in 44 games in his last season in Russia as a 19yr old. Podkolzin has 5 goals in 33 games in what is likely his last year in Russia as a 19yr old. Bure scored 27 goals in 21 World Jr games. Podkolzin scored 3 goals in 21 World Jr games. About the only comparison you can make is that both probably love their mom’s cabbage rolls. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Different world in many ways back then. One noticeable difference....no salary cap. Two, we didn’t have ownership with deep pockets and the funds to spend that money. Made the job alot more difficult back then. No team worried about salaries or spending really until salary disclosure - and Quinn didn't have to worry about that at all from drafting Linden until the lockout after we went to the final...Eventually he did have to deal with rising salaries/ salary disclosure which for sure made his job more difficult in a different way. Think the point is there are similarities between this club and the one from 89-91....i agree to that as well, started stating last season it has an early 90's vibe going on. Need a Butcher trade to put us over the top though....but for sure yes - it was a lot different. Edited February 9, 2021 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said: I would guess that the GM presents an argument as to whom he wants and the owner okays it or doesn't, that is why he hired a GM The Aquas have lots to overlook and are busy with Business and Family to be scouting and making deals I don't think the owner is working the phones like a GM and seeing who he can get If he has that much time for it he may as well appoint himself the GM Hockey is more like a passion and would love to see his team win more than the rest of us He has paid to the cap, to stay at the bottom of the league for years, because I am sure he is told this will improve us Exactly. The owner doesn't work the phones but still approves major strategy, budgets and or changes. That's my guess at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cluminati* Posted February 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2021 Just have to take the positives from the game and move on. For most of the game we showed we could control the play against the ‘mighty’ Laffs, outshot them and played better as a 5 man unit. Time for the boys to come home and spend almost the rest of month at home. More practice time, more REST, more TEAM building and more family time. It’ll make a difference in their play, we should see better results. As for JB’s offseason moves, this cut, paste and squeeze it out kind of season that the NHL has put together makes it tough to evaluate things. The new guys have not really settled in to the city, their new homes and definitely not with their team yet. While we all wished they would hit the ground running and we’d just continue with the same strong play from the last post-season, it was highly unlikely. I’m not surprised to see guys on different pages, frustrations and this subpar start to the season. Give them a little more time before joining the #FireBenning movement. As for Greener, just wished he’d shorten the leash on some of the older guys. Sutter, Pearson, Roussel and Beagle deserve the same fate as LE on most nights. Seeing Bailey’s energy was refreshing. Zac Mac and Gaudette too. OJ looked good out there, scores a goal and needs to sit out to learn more from the press box for the next few games?!?! Yea they make mistakes cuz they’re still learning, but no more than the ageing vets make. Go with the youth movement, heck I would even give shotgun Jake another crack at redemption. Rookies and younger guys playing with little to no room for error may find it hard to survive. Let them play with a little more freedom! If this slide continues, and heads need to roll...I’d change the coaches behind the bench before JB. (Sorry for the long post...just venting and sharing an opinion. Love this team and follow them daily even after moving from Vancity halfway around the world to a different time zone. Always will be a proud Canucks fan!) 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 8 hours ago, Darius said: We have been here before, As an old guy on this board i get the sense we need to calm things down. This is all very similar to what happened about 30 years ago. The period leading up to the Stanley Cup final 94 team started with the team taking a big step forward in 89. Rookie Linden plus a group of fantastic role players got the team to the playoffs and took the cup winning flames to 7 games. That was the best the team had looked in 5 years. Reminds me of how this current team took a step forward in the playoff bubble after 4 or 5 years of misery. We had our hopes up in both periods! The Canucks then took two steps back in 90 and 91. The analogy here is that right now are like we were from 90 to 91. At the time, just like now, it was a disappointing period after getting our hopes up from making the playoffs and coming within a goal post of eliminating a stanley cup calibre team (Calgary). The team also lost a key piece in 90- Paul Reinhart . It felt like he left a big hole on the roster. Reminds me of the holes Tanev and Marky seem to have left now. The coach was Bob McCammon. He was even a Jack Adams runner up in 89. In 91 the team was in a losing streak and there was one particular game where everyone knew McCammon would get canned. The team played as hard as they could, they even outplayed the other team for the most part, but they lost and Bob got fired. The team simply was not good enough. Pat Quinn took over. In 91-92 Bure joined the team and Quinn started to rebuild the D and brought in the right mix of players. After a couple years they eventually made it to game 7 of the 1994 stanley cup final. What I learned from that period: 1) It wasnt McCammon's fault the team regressed in the early 90s- the team needed more pieces. It wasnt clear until we got the better rosters (92-94) to compare what McCammon had to work with in retrospect. I get the same sense here - this isnt all on Green. 2)There was a 5 year period leading up to the 94 team where there were 1 step forward 2 steps back at some points. Important players came and went. I get the same sense here. We moved forward now we are going to step back. As in the early 90s this might be a pause before we jump ahead again. We could draft a stud d man this year and eventually add Podz to the roster..., and whoever the GM is could make the 3 or 4 changes probably needed to put this team over the top in the next 2- 3 years. It happened before it can happen again - we just need to zoom out a little. I dont think Green survives beyond this year - but when its all said and done i think we will look back and see him as another stepping stone in the process where he will be the casualty of circumstance- the roster is still missing key pieces and some key pieces were moved - the same as it was in 91 when McCammon got canned. Its all a process. I think this roster has more to work with than what Quinn had to work with in 91. Butcher trade was a beast of a move. Brought in Ronning, Courtnall, Momesso and Dirk. That gave Quin the meat and potatoes and a large part of the heart and soul of the peak Linden teams. Also helped the Linden teams to take the next step, and for years rarely not get past the first round. Mentioned many times over the last 18 or so months that this team has a Linden team vibe too it, it's the only other time we've had this much young talent together all at once. Ronning to Linden is about the same age difference as Horvat to EP... The team would sure do well with a trade like Butcher - but see it going the other way - as in acquiring a stud D-man for one of our core guys or some of our best prospects. But even without one, it had a couple years of experience gaining before it reaches the same age as those guys were in 93-94 and we went on that run. 93 was one of the best seasons the club ever had too, set records for goals for and plus minus (Ward and Murzyn both plus 34 i think it was), and points. 103 points back then was incredible, like 112-115 today depending on loser points, a lot of ties could have been OT wins or SO wins etc... Anyways great post. Agree with every word. Tough to be patient with this team and it's coach, manager etc, the bar of expectations for sure went up. 4th best run in club history first time out..for me i'm not too worried about the regular season success of this team - other then making the show, preferably with a first round that isn't the previous years cup winner. Want the team to build off playoff reps - and get as many chances as possible. This year if we make it still means something clicked, if we don't that's ok too, that player could be our Nedved for later. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) As far as the game goes - tough Canuck luck for sure. This is a game we were in to win, outplayed a good team the majority of the game. It's a step in the right direction, saw some of that WNP game coming back. That's a positive. At this point like Darius said earlier, the players are playing to keep TG as their coach. Will be interesting to see if that's what they really want or not, and whether it's enough. Edited February 9, 2021 by IBatch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, GritGrinder said: Completely different players. A couple of examples: Bure scored 35 goals in 44 games in his last season in Russia as a 19yr old. Podkolzin has 5 goals in 33 games in what is likely his last year in Russia as a 19yr old. Bure scored 27 goals in 21 World Jr games. Podkolzin scored 3 goals in 21 World Jr games. About the only comparison you can make is that both probably love their mom’s cabbage rolls. Well he did put a question mark in brackets - so maybe he was saying something more like "will Podz be the Bure of this era?" - didn't look like that though. To this date, the team has still not had a more skilled player then Bure...he'd a GPG player with no redline and obstruction, maybe more. Cant compare Bure to anyone really ... maybe Selanne but even then not the same. Imagine how many breakaways he'd get today? 2-3 a game easy. Still considered the fastest player with the puck all-time (sorry McDavid, your more like Coffey was)... it was like watching a player get shot out of a cannon. Instant speed. Podz has a high floor - as in a 700-800 game third line occasional second line guy. His ceiling has to be extremely high to get to Bures level - and if it did he'd be like Peter Forsberg. To me Podz will make up for Pearson. How well he does really is hard to tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Darius Posted February 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Maginator said: Good take. I wasnt around in 91. I'm just curious, do you think firing Green in the right move? Obviously Quinn was a hell of a coach, but is there a suitable/comparable replacement for Green? Or do we roll with Green? Cheers. One thing I forgot to mention, which puts some context to your question, was that in 93-94 (the year of the big cup run) the Canucks had taken a step back in the regular season. After finishing with 90+ points in '92 and then 100+ points in '93 they were a .500 team in 93-94. As much as we love Quinn in retrospect, at the time of that disappointing regular season there were some grumblings about his coaching abilities. Quinn ended up getting the team to the finals and the rest is history (and the mediocrity of the regular season was forgotten) Regarding Green - the way I look at it is this. A roster can make a coach look better than he is or it can make a coach look worse than he is. I think this roster and the way it has lost confidence makes Green look worse than he is. Generally speaking many of the predictions I read from analysts from around the league had the team taking a step sideways or backwards this year - none of the rational for these predictions were hinged on Green's capabilities as a coach. The roster was judged to be deficient and one that could probably not finish ahead of the top 3-4 teams in the division. I didnt like reading these predictions, but sometimes its good to get a dose of objectivity. I personally think there are things he could be doing better and as a relatively new/young nhl coach he probably is still gaining experience on the job. Can he take the team to the next level? Coaching systems aside I dont know if Green has the intangible qualities a guy like Quinn had - the ability to push the right buttons, the relationship he had with the players to make them go through a wall for him. Again going back to history....we do have somewhat of a precedent for this. Alain Vigneault in 07-08. V had a pretty good year in his first year, second year he coaches the team to about .500 and misses the playoffs. Nonis gets fired. Gillis comes in as GM. Everyone thought Gillis would fire Vigneault. Up to that point V was coaching the team to take a more defensive posture. Insead of firing Vigneault, Gillis saw something in V and he directed him to coach the team to take a more offensive posture - changing the style of the team to one that attacks more. With the right roster additions the change in coaching style turned the team around. The whole story is described here: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/coach-alain-vigneault-agrees-to-contract-extension-with-vancouver-canucks Back to Vigneault. I remember some fans wanted him gone in his first couple years. Lots of parallels with what is going on today. A good gauge of this was reading fan sentiments regarding V on internet forums. Before CDC was the go to fan forum we had the Canucks usenet news group . Here is an example of what fans of the day thought of V (lots of similarities to what we are reading now) https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/eWWwPKxO6sU/m/ShBkdI_KsRUJ https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/gzzUyNK3qB4/m/CRoX1Iu4SasJ https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vanc-canucks/c/t7_G5xeg1CA/m/jgiSeYKQKAwJ It goes to show, the right roster can surely change how fans perceive the coach - this is the same guy that took the team to the finals in 2011. A bigger issue than if Green can take this team to the next level (IMHO) is if Benning can take this team to the next level. Can he do what Quinn did in the early 90s and what Gillis did from the mid 2000's - make the right roster changes. I hate to say this but I dont think he can. 2 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysACanuckFan Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 11 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Is that Jake 50 years from now? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 10 hours ago, oldnews said: then there would be no one else to credit then - 100% to his credit - when this core grows up - if this team were to win a Cup. that - of course - would also be nonsense. The reality is that Linden deserves credit, Gillis who acquired Horvat, deserves credit - this team is not 100% Benning built - Edler predated Benning as well, was drafted in the summer between the Burke and Nonis, who deserve credit, Green deserves credit, Ron Delorme deserves credit, Thomas Gradin deserves credit - and on and on - and vice versa. Benning is in charge of surrounding himself. He resigned everyone on the team. All of his staff is his. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, GritGrinder said: Completely different players. A couple of examples: Bure scored 35 goals in 44 games in his last season in Russia as a 19yr old. Podkolzin has 5 goals in 33 games in what is likely his last year in Russia as a 19yr old. Bure scored 27 goals in 21 World Jr games. Podkolzin scored 3 goals in 21 World Jr games. About the only comparison you can make is that both probably love their mom’s cabbage rolls. I wasn’t comparing the players rather it was the fact that both are Russians and seems to be coming in a similar manner based on Darius recollection leading up to the 94 cup run; I understand both are very different players - Bure is a very skilled & fast player and Pods is power winger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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