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[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 8, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | TVAS, SNP

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19 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Don't see us coming back from 4 games below .500. 

Depends! I think if the Canucks lose 3 out of 4 against Calgary, then the season's over at that point. 

 

If they lose all four against the Flames, then it's definitely over. It would be an exercise for jobs basically for next year. I still don't understand how Green doesn't have an extension. A lame duck coach this season, how does management expect Green to handle things without any sense of security? And the players? They probably see how management has made their team worse, and then on top of it all, treat their coach like $&!#. This team has bigger problems than just on the ice - a lot of it is internal as well. 

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53 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Depends! I think if the Canucks lose 3 out of 4 against Calgary, then the season's over at that point. 

 

If they lose all four against the Flames, then it's definitely over. It would be an exercise for jobs basically for next year. I still don't understand how Green doesn't have an extension. A lame duck coach this season, how does management expect Green to handle things without any sense of security? And the players? They probably see how management has made their team worse, and then on top of it all, treat their coach like $&!#. This team has bigger problems than just on the ice - a lot of it is internal as well. 

You've really got to be kidding me. You really think Green has earned that extension?

 

You are so quick to point out the mistakes of Benning, yet you give the coach a pass for the numerous mistakes he's made. Canucks should move on from Green and everyone else. I hope those people find jobs elsewhere though. I don't wish them bad fates.

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1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

You've really got to be kidding me. You really think Green has earned that extension?

 

You are so quick to point out the mistakes of Benning, yet you give the coach a pass for the numerous mistakes he's made. Canucks should move on from Green and everyone else. I hope those people find jobs elsewhere though. I don't wish them bad fates.

And what the hell is Benning doing not getting Eriksson's contract extension ready? Didn't he learn his lesson with all our UFAs that walked this season?!

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2 hours ago, Squamfan said:

 

I don’t understand Twitter sometimes.

 

I went to that tweet, and then clicked on the #firebenning hashtag, just to read what people are saying.

 

And then I get this:

 

7D1B4C33-8CC2-41AF-8123-14D8D7D3B565.jpeg.645a947a18abe0bcbbaf478b1fed2841.jpeg

 

So, returned with the “top” #firebenning tweets is one from the official team account, saying “Mark your calendars” and listing off theme nights?

 

Are the Canucks gonna do a “Fire Benning” theme night? 
 

And which date should I mark on my calendar?

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6 hours ago, Darius said:

We have been here before, As an old guy on this board i get the sense we need to calm things down.

 

This is all very similar to what happened about 30 years ago.  The period leading up to the Stanley Cup final 94 team started with the team taking a big step forward in 89. Rookie Linden plus a group of fantastic role players got the team to the playoffs and took the cup winning flames to 7 games.  That was the best the team had looked in 5 years.  Reminds me of how this current team took a step forward in the playoff bubble after 4 or 5 years of misery. We had our hopes up in both periods!

 

The Canucks then took two steps back in 90 and 91. 

 

The analogy here is that right now are like we were from 90 to 91. At the time, just like now, it was a disappointing period after getting our hopes up from making the playoffs and coming within a goal post of eliminating a stanley cup calibre team (Calgary).  The team also lost a key piece  in 90- Paul Reinhart . It felt like he left a big hole on the roster.  Reminds me of the holes  Tanev and Marky seem to have left now.

 

The coach was Bob McCammon.  He was even a Jack Adams runner up in 89.  In 91 the team was in a losing streak and there was one particular game where everyone knew McCammon would get canned.  The team played as hard as they could, they even outplayed the other team for the most part, but they lost and Bob got fired.  The team simply was not good enough. 

 

Pat Quinn took over.

 

In 91-92 Bure joined the team and Quinn started to rebuild the D and brought in the right mix of players.  After a couple years they eventually made it to game 7 of the 1994 stanley cup final.

 

What I learned from that period:

 

1) It wasnt McCammon's fault the team regressed  in the early 90s- the team needed more pieces. It wasnt clear until we got the better rosters (92-94) to compare what McCammon had to work with in retrospect. I get the same sense here - this isnt all on Green.

 

2)There was a 5 year period leading up to the 94 team where there were 1 step forward 2 steps back at some points. Important players came and went. I get the same sense here.  We moved forward now we are going to step back.  As in the early 90s this might be a pause before we jump ahead again.

 

We could draft a stud d man this year and eventually add Podz to the roster..., and whoever the GM is could make the 3 or 4 changes probably needed to put this team over the top in the next 2- 3 years.  It happened before it can happen again - we just need to zoom out a little.

 

I dont think Green survives beyond this year - but when its all said and done i think we will look back and see him as another stepping stone in the process where he will be the casualty of circumstance- the roster is still missing key pieces and some key pieces were moved - the same as it was in 91 when McCammon got canned.

 

Its all a process.  I think this roster has more to work with than what Quinn had to work with in 91.  

 

 

 

Different world in many ways back then.  One noticeable difference....no salary cap.  Two, we didn’t have ownership with deep pockets and the funds to spend that money.  Made the job alot more difficult back then.  

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2 hours ago, LAorVancouver said:

This is not hidden knowledge, its obvious and has been pointed out by TSN crew as well as our managment. It will reflect in the contract negotiations as well, the inability to take a hit and perform well in the defensive zone will limit Hughes contract to about 7 mill a year.

Agreed.  However fans in Vancouver are so desperate for a number 1 dman they forget what an actual number 1 dman really offers.  Last year they wanted to throw 10 million at him.  When anyone suggested otherwise, they got their panties in a twist.  

We have too many soft one dimensional players on this club and pretending we don't isnt helping any of us.

 

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2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I don’t understand Twitter sometimes.

 

I went to that tweet, and then clicked on the #firebenning hashtag, just to read what people are saying.

 

And then I get this:

 

7D1B4C33-8CC2-41AF-8123-14D8D7D3B565.jpeg.645a947a18abe0bcbbaf478b1fed2841.jpeg

 

So, returned with the “top” #firebenning tweets is one from the official team account, saying “Mark your calendars” and listing off theme nights?

 

Are the Canucks gonna do a “Fire Benning” theme night? 
 

And which date should I mark on my calendar?

It's because this Ty Pardy guy replied and you got the whole tweet, unless you are Ty Pardy I do not find this strange at all.

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5 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I remember the 94 finals but reading this provided alot of context and thanks for taking the time to write it.  Perhaps one similarity I can add that might be similar to both periods is - Pods will be the Bure of this era (?); and the one trade that added alot of pieces was the trade with St Louis were got: Ronning, Courtney, Momesso and Dirk (if I remember correctly it was Quinn who made that trade).  

 

I miss those days of no cap were a team can build dynasties but despite the cap drama it does provide a more competitive league.   Possible to hear your opinion on how the league is now compared to those long forgotten days.

Completely different players. A couple of examples:  Bure scored 35 goals in 44 games in his last season in Russia as a 19yr old. Podkolzin has 5 goals in 33 games in what is likely his last year in Russia as a 19yr old. Bure scored 27 goals in 21 World Jr games. Podkolzin scored 3 goals in 21 World Jr games. About the only comparison you can make is that both probably love their mom’s cabbage rolls.

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2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Different world in many ways back then.  One noticeable difference....no salary cap.  Two, we didn’t have ownership with deep pockets and the funds to spend that money.  Made the job alot more difficult back then.  

No team worried about salaries or spending really until salary disclosure - and Quinn didn't have to worry about that at all from drafting Linden until the lockout after we went to the final...Eventually he did have to deal with rising salaries/ salary disclosure which for sure made his job more difficult in a different way.    Think the point is there are similarities between this club and the one from 89-91....i agree to that as well, started stating  last season it has an early 90's vibe going on.   Need a Butcher trade to put us over the top though....but for sure yes - it was a lot different. 

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7 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I would guess that the GM presents an argument as to whom he wants and the owner okays it or doesn't, that is why he hired a GM

The Aquas have lots to overlook and are busy with Business and Family to be scouting and making deals

I don't think the owner is working the phones like a GM and seeing who he can get

If he has that much time for it he may as well appoint himself the GM

Hockey is more like a passion  and would love to see his team win  more than the rest of us

He has paid to the cap, to stay at the bottom of the league for years, because I am sure he is told this will improve us

 

 

Exactly. The owner doesn't work the phones but still approves major strategy, budgets and or changes.

 

That's my guess at least.

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8 hours ago, Darius said:

We have been here before, As an old guy on this board i get the sense we need to calm things down.

 

This is all very similar to what happened about 30 years ago.  The period leading up to the Stanley Cup final 94 team started with the team taking a big step forward in 89. Rookie Linden plus a group of fantastic role players got the team to the playoffs and took the cup winning flames to 7 games.  That was the best the team had looked in 5 years.  Reminds me of how this current team took a step forward in the playoff bubble after 4 or 5 years of misery. We had our hopes up in both periods!

 

The Canucks then took two steps back in 90 and 91. 

 

The analogy here is that right now are like we were from 90 to 91. At the time, just like now, it was a disappointing period after getting our hopes up from making the playoffs and coming within a goal post of eliminating a stanley cup calibre team (Calgary).  The team also lost a key piece  in 90- Paul Reinhart . It felt like he left a big hole on the roster.  Reminds me of the holes  Tanev and Marky seem to have left now.

 

The coach was Bob McCammon.  He was even a Jack Adams runner up in 89.  In 91 the team was in a losing streak and there was one particular game where everyone knew McCammon would get canned.  The team played as hard as they could, they even outplayed the other team for the most part, but they lost and Bob got fired.  The team simply was not good enough. 

 

Pat Quinn took over.

 

In 91-92 Bure joined the team and Quinn started to rebuild the D and brought in the right mix of players.  After a couple years they eventually made it to game 7 of the 1994 stanley cup final.

 

What I learned from that period:

 

1) It wasnt McCammon's fault the team regressed  in the early 90s- the team needed more pieces. It wasnt clear until we got the better rosters (92-94) to compare what McCammon had to work with in retrospect. I get the same sense here - this isnt all on Green.

 

2)There was a 5 year period leading up to the 94 team where there were 1 step forward 2 steps back at some points. Important players came and went. I get the same sense here.  We moved forward now we are going to step back.  As in the early 90s this might be a pause before we jump ahead again.

 

We could draft a stud d man this year and eventually add Podz to the roster..., and whoever the GM is could make the 3 or 4 changes probably needed to put this team over the top in the next 2- 3 years.  It happened before it can happen again - we just need to zoom out a little.

 

I dont think Green survives beyond this year - but when its all said and done i think we will look back and see him as another stepping stone in the process where he will be the casualty of circumstance- the roster is still missing key pieces and some key pieces were moved - the same as it was in 91 when McCammon got canned.

 

Its all a process.  I think this roster has more to work with than what Quinn had to work with in 91.  

 

 

 

Butcher trade was a beast of a move.   Brought in Ronning, Courtnall, Momesso and Dirk.    That gave Quin the meat and potatoes and a large part of the heart and soul of the peak Linden teams.    Also helped the Linden teams to take the next step, and for years rarely not get past the first round.     
 

Mentioned many times over the last 18 or so months that this team has a Linden team vibe too it, it's the only other time we've had this much young talent together all at once.   Ronning to Linden is about the same age difference as Horvat to EP...   The team would sure do well with a trade like Butcher - but see it going the other way - as in acquiring a stud D-man for one of our core guys or some of our best prospects.    But even without one,  it had a couple years of experience gaining before it reaches the same age as those guys were in 93-94 and we went on that run.    

 

93 was one of the best seasons the club ever had too, set records for goals for and plus minus (Ward and Murzyn both plus 34 i think it was), and points.   103 points back then was incredible, like 112-115 today depending on loser points, a lot of ties could have been OT wins or SO wins etc...

 

Anyways great post.   Agree with every word.   Tough to be patient with this team and it's coach, manager etc, the bar of expectations for sure went up.  4th best run in club history first time out..for me i'm not too worried about the regular season success of this team - other then making the show, preferably with a first round that isn't the previous years cup winner.   Want the team to build off playoff reps - and get as many chances as possible.    This year if we make it still means something clicked, if we don't that's ok too, that player could be our Nedved for later.   

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As far as the game goes - tough Canuck luck for sure.   This is a game we were in to win, outplayed a good team the majority of the game.    It's a step in the right direction,  saw some of that WNP game coming back.   That's a positive.   At this point like Darius said earlier, the players are playing to keep TG as their coach.   Will be interesting to see if that's what they really want or not, and whether it's enough. 

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48 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

Completely different players. A couple of examples:  Bure scored 35 goals in 44 games in his last season in Russia as a 19yr old. Podkolzin has 5 goals in 33 games in what is likely his last year in Russia as a 19yr old. Bure scored 27 goals in 21 World Jr games. Podkolzin scored 3 goals in 21 World Jr games. About the only comparison you can make is that both probably love their mom’s cabbage rolls.

Well he did put a question mark in brackets - so maybe he was saying something more like "will Podz be the Bure of this era?" - didn't look like that though.   To this date, the team has still not had a more skilled player then Bure...he'd a GPG player with no redline and obstruction, maybe more.   Cant compare Bure to anyone really ... maybe Selanne but even then not the same.   Imagine how many breakaways he'd get today?  2-3 a game easy.    Still considered the fastest player with the puck all-time (sorry McDavid, your more like Coffey was)... it was like watching a player get shot out of a cannon.   Instant speed.   

 

Podz has a high floor - as in a 700-800 game third line occasional second line guy.   His ceiling has to be extremely high to get to Bures level - and if it did he'd be like Peter Forsberg.    

 

To me Podz will make up for Pearson.   How well he does really is hard to tell. 

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10 hours ago, oldnews said:

then there would be no one else to credit then - 100% to his credit - when this core grows up - if this team were to win a Cup.

 

that - of course - would also be nonsense.

 

The reality is that Linden deserves credit, Gillis who acquired Horvat, deserves credit - this team is not 100% Benning built - Edler predated Benning as well, was drafted in the summer between the Burke and Nonis, who deserve credit, Green deserves credit, Ron Delorme deserves credit, Thomas Gradin deserves credit - and on and on - and vice versa.

Benning is in charge of surrounding himself. He resigned everyone on the team. All of his staff is his. 

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1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

Completely different players. A couple of examples:  Bure scored 35 goals in 44 games in his last season in Russia as a 19yr old. Podkolzin has 5 goals in 33 games in what is likely his last year in Russia as a 19yr old. Bure scored 27 goals in 21 World Jr games. Podkolzin scored 3 goals in 21 World Jr games. About the only comparison you can make is that both probably love their mom’s cabbage rolls.

I wasn’t comparing the players rather it was the fact that both are Russians and seems to be coming in a similar manner based on Darius recollection leading up to the 94 cup run; I understand both are very different players - Bure is a very skilled & fast player and Pods is power winger.   

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