(Rumour) Virtanen on the trade block

[Smashian Kassian]

1 minute ago, Rush17 said:

Move Pearson to Sutter's line. Debrusk should be able to produce at a similar level well younger and not in his UFA

 year like Pearson. 

 

I personally don't see Pearson as a good second line player in today's game. He would be fantastic in a third line that gets a lot of ice time. Hell put him with motte and beagle that line would get more offence. 

 

Podkolzin coming over tho might complicated things. I'd rather not have podz and hogz on the right wings. Suppose Miller could be moved before he becomes Ufa. I don't have all the answers though.

 

 

Middle 6 some version of: 

 

DeBrusk - Horvat - Hog

Pearson - ???? - Pod

 

 

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Move Pearson to Sutter's line. Debrusk should be able to produce at a similar level well younger and not in his UFA

You've solved half an issue - but you've failed to realize that Horvat's line is a dual purpose line.  

Do you believe Horvat's line is as effective in matchup/shutdown with DeBrusk as opposed to Pearson.

For me I don't like the fit - not just because Pearson is a better two way player / capable penalty killer and therefore a better fit on that line, but because he also brings a heavier game. If I'm going to bother to acquire another top 6 - I'll pass on the 188lb player who throws 35 hits a season = I want more of a powerforward element and am not in a hurry to commit 3.6+ to DeBrusk.   I also want a player that is more proven without the puck than DeBrusk.    You mentioned Podkolzin - and he's another reason I'm not particularly interested in a DeBrusk type (who imo is a top 6 or not type player) - the team needs a Podkolzin type more imo - and they need the room for players like him.   Part of the reason I was ok not signing Toffoli was Hoglander - well they have another prospect on his way that is highly likely to force his way into that mix.

None of which is to sandbag DeBrusk as a player - it's simply to say, he would not be my target.

Edited February 8, 2021 by oldnews

[Junkyard Dog]

35 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

Aww. Poor babies. Look, if Jake gets traded, so be it. But too many of you so called fans of the team continually cry about this. Just like the crowd who suggests trading Brock. It's a joke. It's as though some of you are just waiting to sink your teeth into, pretty much anything that is dramatic. Go watch soap operas instead.

Just because you don't agree with my sentiment doesn't mean you should generalize, project hatred of others onto and be insulting towards me. If you have any other suggestions then lets have a conversation.

 

23 minutes ago, oldnews said:

do you have a point, then?

 

if you don't even believe it fixes anything - what the hell is the point?

 

what do you want DeBrusk for?  Where are you going to play him?

Some players just need a fresh start elsewhere. Same goes for Bennett/Mete/Dubois/Laine. 

 

Perhaps Debrusk or someone else is a better fit, perhaps they end up more of the same. Worst case scenario we save cap in 1-2 seasons which we'd probably do already with keeping Virtanen. Best case Debrusk or someone else can solidify a spot/be a better fit than Virtanen.

 

What we know is that Virtanen hasn't been good enough to solidify himself as a regular with the Canucks and he's getting more pricey than similar players fighting for spots(Mac/Gaud/Hawryluk) with others in the pipeline(Pod/Lind/Lockwood) coming at more than half his cost.

 

I implied that with the way the Canucks are playing it probably won't change anything and that's not wrong. It's been a tire fire. Still that doesn't change the fact we should move on from players that we've invested enough time in already and that could use a change of scenery.

 

Personally I'd rather trade for Bennett since he has a year less than Virtanen and could play in the bottom 6. Use the cap elsewhere if Bennett isn't a fit. I don't know if Virtanen good enough value for CGY to be willing to take that extra year though. Debrusk has been better overall but comes at a higher cost for 2 years. More risk involved if Debrusk doesn't pan out since we'd be stuck with a higher cap hit than Virtanen for the same amount of years.

 

What are your other suggestions?

[higgyfan]

9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

exactly.

if they're shopping for needs right now - which is what NHL GMs actually do (not make senseless, desperation deals for assets they don't need) - then you're looking at players like Carlo (although he's a pipe-dream in the sense there's next to no chance Boston is looking to or entertaining moving him).

 

My thoughts go to the guy already mentioned in this thread - Cal Foote - and players like Scott Mayfield, who may be difficult for the Isles to protect, and who are relatively strong at RHD (ie Dobson is their #3 rhd - and they have Pulock at 1rhd.  And still, a guy like Mayfield, with an excellent contract like his, woud be costly - and the Isles just went to the ECF - so they're very competitive....wouldn't be an easy player to acquire.

 

Josh Manson would also be on my list (if he weren't on IR for 6 weeks...) - he's probably devalued in the present (and comes with a 4.1 million cap hit that prohibits a lot of buyers)...  they'd have to eat cap in return - ie Roussel - but he might be worth keeping an eye on (would love to poach Sam Steel from Anaheim as well, but not necessarily a 'need' as much as a want - would move Gaudette for him though if they can't get a player like Nick Paul for him.

 

 

 

Definatly RD is a huge need; especially a guy that can play 2nd pairing.  I think 3C is also a need; especially with Sutts last season.  I forgot about the ED coming up.  Hope JB and staff are checking over all the rosters in the NHL.  Probably more than likely to find a RD, but I'm still hopeful for Scott Laughton.  Flyers have so many good Cs that their bound to lose 1.  Wishful thinking....I know.

[Provost]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

You've solved half an issue - but you've failed to realize that Horvat's line is a dual purpose line.  

Do you believe Horvat's line is as effective in matchup/shutdown with DeBrusk as opposed to Pearson.

For me I don't like the fit - not just because Pearson is a better two way player / capable penalty killer and therefore a better fit on that line, but because he also brings a heavier game. If I'm going to bother to acquire another top 6 - I'll pass on the 188lb player who throws 35 hits a season = I want more of a powerforward element and am not in a hurry to commit 3.6+ to DeBrusk. 

None of which is to sandbag DeBrusk as a player - it's simply to say, he would not be my target.

You have failed to realize or account for half that equation.  If Pearson is moved to a Sutter 3rd line, THAT line will be capable of taking many harder matchup minutes freeing up the 2nd line to provide more offence.

 

I mean, you have been droning on for years how great it is to have both Sutter and Beagle around to play the defensive matchup minutes and how stupid everyone but you is to not recognize that... so why change gears now suddenly?

 

Horvat’s line has been forced to take more defensive minutes because the other lines couldn’t be trusted to do it because they had guys like Virtanen and Gaudette on them who were awful defensively.  If the trade happened, you can’t take the current state of line usage as it will be different players.

 

 

[Rush17]

9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Middle 6 some version of: 

 

DeBrusk - Horvat - Hog

Pearson - ???? - Pod

 

 

Ya that looks like a really solid middle six. Swap Sutter out then get someone to play with Motte and beags. Roussel had looked ok there but I don't like how green is limiting his minutes. He is an energy guy be nice to see him get more ice time.

 

Is Linus Karlsson someone who might be able to make the jump next year? He may need more time. A Ufa or trade target tho. Use Gaudette for a heavy fast C. Lowry would be nice but Winnipeg likely won't move him out.

 

[Smashian Kassian]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I am literally comparing where they are now - their last season.

 

You are overstating the belief that DeBrusk's previous seasons indicate much better outcomes than he acheived last year  - you are talking about a 7/8 pt difference - in the midst of contending and winning a cup - in seasons he had 65-70% ozone starts.

What he was last year, is pretty much what he is.

 

And again, I ask you or anyone to answer the question where you propose he fits on this team.

 

I disagree, DeBrusk is above 0.5 PPG over his career. The majority of his career he's produced over 40 points, and don't forget last season was shutdown prematurely. He still had 17 games left to get 5 points. I say its likely he would've hit 40 pts again last year w/o the stoppage.  

 

And even if he is a 35-40 point player, that's still a better contribution than we've been getting from Virtanen. Not to mention he's been a consistent scorer in the playoffs. He's just been a better player overall.

 

Where does he fit? Where doesn't he fit? Roussel & Motte aren't exactly great 3rd line options, and Pearson is no guarantee to re-sign. Even assuming he does, I could see him used in a middle 6 role going forward:

 

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

DeBrusk - Horvat - Hoglander

Pearson - ???? - Podkolzin

Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

 

[Rush17]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You've solved half an issue - but you've failed to realize that Horvat's line is a dual purpose line.  

Do you believe Horvat's line is as effective in matchup/shutdown with DeBrusk as opposed to Pearson.

For me I don't like the fit - not just because Pearson is a better two way player / capable penalty killer and therefore a better fit on that line, but because he also brings a heavier game. If I'm going to bother to acquire another top 6 - I'll pass on the 188lb player who throws 35 hits a season = I want more of a powerforward element and am not in a hurry to commit 3.6+ to DeBrusk.   I also want a player that is more proven without the puck than DeBrusk.    You mentioned Podkolzin - and he's another reason I'm not particularly interested in a DeBrusk type (who imo is a top 6 or not type player) - the team needs a Podkolzin type more imo - and they need the room for players like him.   Part of the reason I was ok not signing Toffoli was Hoglander - well they have another prospect on his way that is highly likely to force his way into that mix.

None of which is to sandbag DeBrusk as a player - it's simply to say, he would not be my target.

It would be nice if we could repurpose our third line for that role and free up Bo for softer matchups. Maybe swap Gaudette with someone who can help achieve that end with Pearson and company.

 

[Rush17]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

You have failed to realize or account for half that equation.  If Pearson is moved to a Sutter 3rd line, THAT line will be capable of taking many harder matchup minutes freeing up the 2nd line to provide more offence.

 

I mean, you have been droning on for years how great it is to have both Sutter and Beagle around to play the defensive matchup minutes and how stupid everyone but you is to not recognize that... so why change gears now suddenly?

 

Horvat’s line has been forced to take more defensive minutes because the other lines couldn’t be trusted to do it because they had guys like Virtanen and Gaudette on them who were awful defensively.  If the trade happened, you can’t take the current state of line usage as it will be different players.

 

 

You summarized that better then I did. Good work

[canuktravella]

2 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Rooster and Jake would be great taxi squad additions for a playoff bound team. Added depth plus a fresh start.

no reason jake needs to be on taxi sqad i hope he plays 20 mins a game pp pk all situations and looks like new neely trade just  for the garbage fans that constantly crap on the kid 

[Gurn]

23 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is how cherry picking stats work.  You decide what you think of a player and then search and try to present data that confirms your subjective bias.

 

Are you new here?  :D

 

Do you expect someone to actually use the data to make their judgement on a player instead of improperly

using it as justification of their non-evidence based opinions?

Cherry picking? lol

Last season versus last season.  

[Junkyard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Middle 6 some version of: 

 

DeBrusk - Horvat - Hog

Pearson - ???? - Pod

 

 

Next year if we are able to clear some cap Adam Lowry would look good with Pearson/Pod.

 

Would require some serious cap clearage to have Debrusk/Pearson/Lowry next year. Even then it would have to come after addressing the D first.

 

A bit too much wishful thinking.

[canuktravella]

Just now, canuktravella said:

no reason jake needs to be on taxi sqad i hope he plays 20 mins a game pp pk all situations and looks like new neely trade just  for the garbage fans that constantly crap on the kid 

  they have started crapping on hughes and petey as well. Mindboggling

[Trebreh]

Jake for DeBrusk would be great, gives us some finish in the 3rd line. I'd also shop Gaud around for a playmaking center. the bottom 6 lacks creativity, too many of the same players.

 

 

[Canucks Curse]

LE + OJ + Gaudette + Virtanen + 2nd for OEL

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

2 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

LE + OJ + Gaudette + Virtanen + 2nd for OEL

Circling back to that, eh? 

[Canucks Curse]

3 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Circling back to that, eh? 

a pile of spare parts for an expensive aging decent part?

I don't understand what happened to Gaudette- good last year, now on trade block? uncommitted? puts a lot of energy into his "brand"

[Junkyard Dog]

Wrong thread.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Junkyard Dog

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

You have failed to realize or account for half that equation.  If Pearson is moved to a Sutter 3rd line, THAT line will be capable of taking many harder matchup minutes freeing up the 2nd line to provide more offence.

 

I mean, you have been droning on for years how great it is to have both Sutter and Beagle around to play the defensive matchup minutes and how stupid everyone but you is to not recognize that... so why change gears now suddenly?

 

Horvat’s line has been forced to take more defensive minutes because the other lines couldn’t be trusted to do it because they had guys like Virtanen and Gaudette on them who were awful defensively.  If the trade happened, you can’t take the current state of line usage as it will be different players.

 

 

I agree that Sutter's line is capable of hard minutes - however Sutter's line is already taking on harder minutes - and he's in the 35% ozone start range.  Beagle is at 20%.

The problem is that Horvat is still down in the 43% range - not freed up - because the team as a whole - and particularly the top line -  is losing the possesion game - handily.  Why is that?

I think the loss of Tanev (and even Hamonic) and the attempt to deal with both Hughes and a rookie on the blueline every night - along with a placeholding Benn being Hughes partner - is not enabling 'freeing' up anyone - the best they can manage under these circumstances is to keep tilting the ice for EP's line - and that has yet to result in a breakout for the top line.  

Regardless of any of that, I don't see DeBrusk as a target - not even a secondary target - for a range of reasons I've already stated in here.  At the same time, you don't always have to make the most urgent move first if you're improving nevertheless - which imo would be to improve their right side and ideally their top shutdown pairing in the process.  For me that is the biggest issue right now - and moving Pearson to Sutter's wing - while imo weakening Horvat's line - isn't necessarily a solution - it might be lateral at best.  Would it make sense down the road - which could make it a worthwhile move?  It could - but again, there are a number of other moves, other types of moves I'd prioritize over a DeBrusk.

 

[oldnews]

18 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

It would be nice if we could repurpose our third line for that role and free up Bo for softer matchups. Maybe swap Gaudette with someone who can help achieve that end with Pearson and company.

 

I think the 3rd line can be strengthened on the wings - but is already a shutdown line - the problem at this point (in addition to a struggling top 6)  is also the blueline.  If you're spending 40 minutes a night with either Hughes or a rookie on the blueline (and both Juolevi and Chatfield have been playing pretty hard minutes for guys breaking in) - then it's difficult to 'free up' Horvat.  i'd probably be more open to the idea in the future - ie after Pearson expires - or as a deal for Pearson, accepting a bit of a step back - but again, if I'm shopping for a winger for Horvat and Hoglander, DeBrusk probably is not on my shortlist (and I'm pretty optimistic about Podkolzin's game - and how that might pair with Horvat's).   Even if Horvat's line is "freed up" - it is still served by being as strong a two-way line as possible - and I think the mix could use a bit heavier type than DeBrusk (there are things I like about DeBrusk's game, it's just a question of fit for me - and future space, including cap space).   Podkolzin isn't going to cost 3.6million for some time.

Edited February 9, 2021 by oldnews