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Is this THAT bad?...really...

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Let's be realistic about our chance this year.  The best we can aim is for 3rd place in the North Division and face one of Habs or Leafs in the playoffs.  We know that we can play better hockey versus other teams than Habs or the Leafs due to the defensive breakdowns.  In reality, we are competing with Flames, Oilers and the Jets for the spots and Ottawa is more likely be out of the playoffs.  If we do meet the Leafs or the Habs, we do not have the defense support to shutdown their top line.  So expect another year of growing pains until at least this off-season with losing one player to Seattle and more cap space to sign any UFA.  I also am expecting a new coach this off-season, I am thinking that Green will be let go at end of his contract rather than firing him during the season.  I would be surprised if Benning decide to fire Green before the end of season as it is not his character to fire somebody during mid-season.   I also feel that  Benning should be given its final chance this off-season free agents with his final draft as it's going to be his 7th season which should be a normal length of tenure for any GM.    If the team improves greatly next season, I would foreseen him being a long term GM for the Canucks.

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So.....this year our team looks like this:

1) Goalies not playing well

2) Defenseman not playing well

3) Veterans are not playing well

4) Stars are not playing well, especially Hughes and Petterson. Points are there but plus/minus are atrocious

5) PP not doing well.

Now since we have not had so many things go wrong in the past on this team at the same time, I was gearing towards management as being the problem. Simply because this group has shown us what they can do and they are able to play much better then what they have been showing us. 

Then I looked at the players performances. Jake looks like he doesn't care anymore, I know, some of you say its because he is Lazy. Bo and Boes openly criticizing Jake. Does this promote TEAM WORK? Miller looking like he is mad at the world. Holtby giving Miller the evil eye after his bad give away. Schmidt not playing like we all expected and that bench does not look like they are having fun, at all. 

There seems to be a divide in that locker room and that's on the Coach, Captain and the rest of the leaders on that team. They can play better then they have been and I was so excited for this new core as I thought we had leadership that resembled the Pat Quinn/Trevor Linden days.

I believe the leadership and character is there but the TEAM has to play like a TEAM or we will continue to see what we have been seeing lately. 

The pieces are there, we just need somebody who can put them all together, GCG!!! :canucks::towel:

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Never seen a team so skilled play so badly. The fact that we've got players in the top-10 if not top-5 in scoring tells us that. Boeser could win the Rocket Richard trophy. Hughes isn't going anywhere near the Norris but is probably going to have more points than whoever wins it. When you look at our top-6, they're all scoring nicely.

 

Then you look at the players' +/- and our goalies' GAA and save %.

 

This team is one defensive system shake up from tearing it up, but I don't see it happening right now because we just keep playing the same stupid way with defensive mistakes. It looked like we played well the last two games by outshooting our opponents, then we get beat by Gaudreau just sliding through our stupid defencemen changing on the fly at a bad time. They have come up with mistake after mistake and it's cost us, and our goalies being average hasn't helped.

 

This team can go on a 8-10 game winning streak, they have it in them, but it's not happening if we keep playing the same dumb way and hurting ourselves.

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On 2/9/2021 at 6:06 PM, King Heffy said:

Firing Green is a positive move too

No way man. Without Green,  Petterson would be a 4th line plug, Boeser would be washing dishes down at the Crab Shack, and Hughes wouldn't know which end of his hockey stick to play the puck with. Green is the only guy who could get this mediocre bunch to  beat Ottawa THREE times! He's the best coach ever. Without him we'd go 0-82-0 every year. Green for King of the World! :P

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12 hours ago, Freeridebc said:

Okay everyone. I'm scared and alone. Send booze and sleeping pills. I need to wake up when it's over

You want to sleep the next 50 years away?

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46 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

No way man. Without Green,  Petterson would be a 4th line plug, Boeser would be washing dishes down at the Crab Shack, and Hughes wouldn't know which end of his hockey stick to play the puck with. Green is the only guy who could get this mediocre bunch to  beat Ottawa THREE times! He's the best coach ever. Without him we'd go 0-82-0 every year. Green for King of the World! :P

Also without him I’d have nothing to say.

Edited by Dumb Nuck
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On 2/9/2021 at 5:48 PM, Freeridebc said:

The more I've been watching, cursing, throwing things... it got me thinking...

 

Man, there is a light at the end of this tunnel, and it's bright as eff word.

 

Never in history have we played this many games, in such a short time.

 

So here is my take. 

 

Next year we will see Toffolli twice? Next.

Hoglander looks legit.

Oli looks like he can serve a purpose.

JV is def done. And our Big Russian looks like he's ready to break our top 6.

 

Would a high pick hurt us? No.

 

There's a clear picture of who everyone is and who is expendable.

 

Let's wash this season up to what it is. A freak show. We all watched to watch the 'nucks win. 

 

But its not the end. 

Your close, it's the end alright but the end of the build more like it, you hit on points that are going to change this team in a big way. First our Bulldog Podz is on the way and our top 6 problem is over without breaking the bank, that leaves our needed top 4 Dman, and 3rd line center if Gauds doesn't work out and money will come available for that as next year we have cap $ plus whoever we lose at the ED, then, whoa this team will be super fun to watch! bonus would be Tryamkin back on 3rd pairing, we need that toughness as the playoffs get rough and he can throw most grown men around like ragdolls and won't shy away from a fight..  

So you close, the end is... near... patience young Jedi, we'll get there no matter what happens in this season or next, the following year is the one I'm waiting for.

Far as I'm concerned, after 41 year watching, what's another 2 as long as we don't fire JB and get some other GM who puts together the same style team we've had with 2 years of exceptions in all that time, "soft" great seasonal teams never win a cup and if that keeps happening here, we never will...

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On 2/12/2021 at 5:32 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Never seen a team so skilled play so badly. The fact that we've got players in the top-10 if not top-5 in scoring tells us that. Boeser could win the Rocket Richard trophy. Hughes isn't going anywhere near the Norris but is probably going to have more points than whoever wins it. When you look at our top-6, they're all scoring nicely.

 

Then you look at the players' +/- and our goalies' GAA and save %.

 

This team is one defensive system shake up from tearing it up, but I don't see it happening right now because we just keep playing the same stupid way with defensive mistakes. It looked like we played well the last two games by outshooting our opponents, then we get beat by Gaudreau just sliding through our stupid defencemen changing on the fly at a bad time. They have come up with mistake after mistake and it's cost us, and our goalies being average hasn't helped.

 

This team can go on a 8-10 game winning streak, they have it in them, but it's not happening if we keep playing the same dumb way and hurting ourselves.

Thinking Bo should start calling guys out and himself if necessary... yeah with Podz, Train, and a top 4 D and a 3rd line center if Gauds can't do it and then we'd be set and I can see JB pulling it off easily as all the hard work is already done IF he has the time to do it.. if that all comes to pass I'll text you... leave the volume loud on your notifications so you'll wake up to one of the best Vancouver teams ever...

Anything less that? well I'd in line for the booze and sleeping pills too... it's been a painful watch for the last 40 years! 

 At this rate I'll have to buy the liquor store and a pharmacy for the booze and sleeping pills, glutton for punishment I appearantly am.. and I don't even drink but if this keeps up I'll start! 

Edited by iceman64
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On 2/12/2021 at 8:02 PM, CptCanuck16 said:

No way man. Without Green,  Petterson would be a 4th line plug, Boeser would be washing dishes down at the Crab Shack, and Hughes wouldn't know which end of his hockey stick to play the puck with. Green is the only guy who could get this mediocre bunch to  beat Ottawa THREE times! He's the best coach ever. Without him we'd go 0-82-0 every year. Green for King of the World! :P

Can you get me some of that "stuff" so I can see what you're seeing?

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On 2/9/2021 at 6:06 PM, King Heffy said:

I still think that if we replace Baumer with literally anyone, the defense will improve.  A lot of the issues are caused by our defensive system being a steaming pile of garbage.  Firing the unqualified idiot responsible for this group is the first step necessary.  Firing Green is a positive move too now that he's decided to allow Eriksson to disgrace our jersey once again, and Brown's idea of a power play is sticking a fork into the wall socket.

I agree the power play needs to find creative ways to generate new looks but other than that I think you're off.

 

I'm not completely sold on Baumer but I'd like to see what he can do with a set of six NHL quality defensemen before I write him off. 

 

This roster has a handful of very good players. Yet this roster is not a good roster at all.

 

Benn and Juolevi are not NHL quality defensemen. Myers has his moments but generally does more harm than good. Edler is a beast and I love him but ideally he's playing third pair minutes at this stage in his career. Hughes without Tanev is... not very good defensively, yet at least. Schmidt is adjusting to a new team in what is probably the hardest year ever to adjust to a new team and at times that has showed but overall I think he's performed admirably.

 

The coaching staff was vocal about upgrading the d-core in the off-season. Instead it looks like they've been dealt an even worse hand than before.

 

I wouldn't call it a systems issue. It's a roster issue. 

Edited by dank.sinatra
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On 2/12/2021 at 5:32 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Never seen a team so skilled play so badly. The fact that we've got players in the top-10 if not top-5 in scoring tells us that. Boeser could win the Rocket Richard trophy. Hughes isn't going anywhere near the Norris but is probably going to have more points than whoever wins it. When you look at our top-6, they're all scoring nicely.

 

Then you look at the players' +/- and our goalies' GAA and save %.

 

This team is one defensive system shake up from tearing it up, but I don't see it happening right now because we just keep playing the same stupid way with defensive mistakes. It looked like we played well the last two games by outshooting our opponents, then we get beat by Gaudreau just sliding through our stupid defencemen changing on the fly at a bad time. They have come up with mistake after mistake and it's cost us, and our goalies being average hasn't helped.

 

This team can go on a 8-10 game winning streak, they have it in them, but it's not happening if we keep playing the same dumb way and hurting ourselves.

No they don't. Not unless they play Ottawa ten times.

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On 2/9/2021 at 7:10 PM, The Lock said:

This season is just evidence at how impatient people are. I keep hearing "well when is the right time to complain if not now?" My answer to that is give it at least a couple of years from now. We need to develop and grow as a team. Losing like this, there's a good chance it'll strengthen us for later on. If anyone seriously thinks nothing but negative about this team right now, they really need to sit down and question it,

 

In fact, I'll tell you what. If we're still playing like this in 2 years, I'll jump on that bandwagon of "we didn't do enough". However, we need to actually be playing as bad as we are now for a looooong period of time.

I will one up you.... if we just stay terrible for the next twenty years, our entire roster will be filled with top 10 picks and we will be a powerhouse and win several Cups in a row!

 

That is how it works right?  I mean teams (Arizona, Edmonton, Buffalo) can’t be bad for years in a row no matter how many good picks you get!

 

Clearly this is all a plan and we wanted to be near the bottom of the league 7 years into it, just like we were at the start.  Just stick it out two more years and it will be like a magical transformation!  
 

I absolutely remember when Benning did his first press conference and told us about his 9 year plan to (hopefully) get back to being a regular playoff team.  I am glad he convinced all our good players to stick around for that and sign long term extensions at deep discounts to make it work.

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On 2/10/2021 at 11:31 AM, coolboarder said:

  In reality, we are competing with Flames, Oilers and the Jets for the spots and Ottawa is more likely be out of the playoffs.

When you factor in winning % and games played... Ottawa is MUCH closer to us than we are to a playoff spot.


We are 8-9 points out of a playoff spot right now if you count the pace everyone is playing at, and have to vault over two teams way ahead of us to do it.

 

We need to go on a 7-3 run over the next 10 games just to make it to .500, which will still leave us well out of the playoff picture.  We need to sustain a likely .650 winning % the rest of the way to be in a playoff spot.

 

We aren’t competing for playoff spot, we are in the territory of praying for a miracle.

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Too many new players, missing players, and lack of practice time. Petey and Hughes, Brock are going to be stars but are still too young to be expected to carry a team. No playoffs this year 

unless we play Ottawa 20 more times. I'm at peace with it. Bring on the high pick, shed a bunch of salary this season and let's move forward. Lots to look forward to on this team and I see an Avs type bounce back coming. 

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

I will one up you.... if we just stay terrible for the next twenty years, our entire roster will be filled with top 10 picks and we will be a powerhouse and win several Cups in a row!

 

That is how it works right?  I mean teams (Arizona, Edmonton, Buffalo) can’t be bad for years in a row no matter how many good picks you get!

 

Clearly this is all a plan and we wanted to be near the bottom of the league 7 years into it, just like we were at the start.  Just stick it out two more years and it will be like a magical transformation!  
 

I absolutely remember when Benning did his first press conference and told us about his 9 year plan to (hopefully) get back to being a regular playoff team.  I am glad he convinced all our good players to stick around for that and sign long term extensions at deep discounts to make it work.

Not how this works. You have to also take into account where the team is currently at and how the past few years have been. There's a reason why I said 2 years, because at that point the current team should have learned how to play with each other and Benning has that chance to right the wrongs with contracts such as Eriksson.

 

This isn't some arbitrary number I'm throwing out there. This is a taking into account a logical progression of the team while also being patient (that last word being key because right now the fans have none). Will there be hiccups? Absolutely. We're going through one. Does that mean we'll be bad in a month or next year? Absolutely doesn't mean that at all. What you are suggesting is narrow tunnel-vision approach that assumes everything goes right (or wrong via your satire). What I'm suggesting accounts for these issues that pop up. That's the difference here.

 

We've only JUST got our team assembled. Let's give them time. That's really what I'm suggesting in the end. Not some perpetual bottom of the pack for 20 years nonsense. ;)

Edited by The Lock
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14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Not how this works. You have to also take into account where the team is currently at and how the past few years have been. There's a reason why I said 2 years, because at that point the current team should have learned how to play with each other and Benning has that chance to right the wrongs with contracts such as Eriksson.

 

This isn't some arbitrary number I'm throwing out there. This is a taking into account a logical progression of the team while also being patient (that last word being key because right now the fans have none). Will there be hiccups? Absolutely. We're going through one. Does that mean we'll be bad in a month or next year? Absolutely doesn't mean that at all. What you are suggesting is narrow tunnel-vision approach that assumes everything goes right (or wrong via your satire). What I'm suggesting accounts for these issues that pop up. That's the difference here.

 

We've only JUST got our team assembled. Let's give them time. That's really what I'm suggesting in the end. Not some perpetual bottom of the pack for 20 years nonsense. ;)

Yes, it is just an arbitrary number you have thrown out.  You just made a couple of random assumptions not based in any reality except your wishful thinking.

 

There is no rational expectation that “the team will have learned to play with each other” in two years... we will have at least as much, if not more, roster churn between now and then as we have had in the past few years.  We have to replace half our defence still in that time.

 

What expectation could we have that Benning won’t keep making the same contract and pro scouting mistakes he has had up until now?  That is just wishful thinking.

 

There ie no such thing as a “logical progression”.  That is some weird fallacy that people invent in their heads to feel better about having a terrible team.  Progression isn’t linear at all, as a matter of fact... history shows us that bad teams tend to stay bad a lot more often than a team shows significant linear improvement.  We are more likely to be still missing the playoffs two years from now as making the playoffs.  You can say we have some better young players now than we did 7 years ago... but our results are the same, and that is the only metric that matters.

 

Players get old fast and come off their ELC and get paid market rates even faster.  One of our best “windows” was these most recent years when we had two superstars making no money.  We squandered that by having a roster filled with players making millions who wouldn’t get picked up if put on the waiver wire.  Horvat is going to be 28 and nearing the end of his prime by the start of your “plan”.. if we don’t start competing for the playoffs for a couple years, it takes a bunch of kicks at the can to make a real run and he could be retired or be overpaid on a bad contract by that point.

 

Everything you said was arbitrary and wishful thinking.

 

 

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