GetFocht Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, The Lock said: I can tell you first hand after hardly going anywhere for years this doesn't always work like that. If you don't have the experience that other jobs are looking for, your name pretty much sums up what happens to you. And it wasn't for a lack of trying either. Maybe this is your best life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 minute ago, GetFocht said: Maybe this is your best life? What exactly do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 17 hours ago, Violator said: They already do that. If Mexico stops selling everything so cheap they would be better off economically.Problem is most of the stuff Mexico produces alot of other countries will gladly sell. Not on the scale that I'm suggesting. You can also create a reputation for quality products and then charge more for it. It's not easy, but it's possible. But in terms of what I'm suggesting, clearly what they're doing now is not enough, so I'm suggesting ramping it up more to have hopefully greater effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFocht Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, The Lock said: What exactly do you mean by this? If you feel you are 'stuck' where you are, maybe you need to learn to be content or take the steps necessary to get to where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, GetFocht said: If you feel you are 'stuck' where you are, maybe you need to learn to be content or take the steps necessary to get to where you want to be. I did, but not everyone has that luxury. I didn't for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFocht Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, The Lock said: I did, but not everyone has that luxury. I didn't for a while. The steps or being content? Everyone has the luxury of being content, few use it. As for changing your situation, everyone has that luxury as well but it isn't the same for each. Some people are more fortunate because of their families etc before them. My goal is to leave my family with more than I will be left and to pass along that line of thinking. I was homeless. Some of us have to make our own luck, wealth etc. Expecting those more fortunate to give in order to level the playing field is a gross starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, GetFocht said: The steps or being content? Everyone has the luxury of being content, few use it. As for changing your situation, everyone has that luxury as well but it isn't the same for each. Some people are more fortunate because of their families etc before them. My goal is to leave my family with more than I will be left and to pass along that line of thinking. I was homeless. Some of us have to make our own luck, wealth etc. Expecting those more fortunate to give in order to level the playing field is a gross starting point. I don't see it as "expecting". It's more like helping. Giving that extra push. If you've been homeless than you'd know that everyone's situation is different. There's also kind of different levels of homelessness that no one ever really speaks of. For some, it's a lot easier to get out of such a situation than others. While it's ideal for everyone to be able to change their situation, for some it's a lot easier than others. Sometimes that extra push is what actually does it and not just their own effort. Sometimes you can have all the effort in the world, and feel like you're not getting anywhere. It's a hard spiral down of hopelessness that's not as simple as how you're playing it out to be. Good for you for getting out of homelessness, but I know what it's like too, and your story only works with some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFocht Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, The Lock said: I don't see it as "expecting". It's more like helping. Giving that extra push. If you've been homeless than you'd know that everyone's situation is different. There's also kind of different levels of homelessness that no one ever really speaks of. For some, it's a lot easier to get out of such a situation than others. While it's ideal for everyone to be able to change their situation, for some it's a lot easier than others. Sometimes that extra push is what actually does it and not just their own effort. Sometimes you can have all the effort in the world, and feel like you're not getting anywhere. It's a hard spiral down of hopelessness that's not as simple as how you're playing it out to be. Good for you for getting out of homelessness, but I know what it's like too, and your story only works with some. Expecting anyone above you to hand out to make you better is never the right mentality. They are not obliged to assist. I donate quite a bit, but I would never expect someone to level the field field because they could easily fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, GetFocht said: Those with massive amounts of wealth owe no one anything. I’m not sure that anyone is debating that people who work hard and manage their finances well don’t deserve what they have they have. If you make it by your hard work and innovation, fine more power to you. Amassing a fortune by by paying ridiculously low wages or hiring children and pretending that you are “teaching them a trade” is not. Paying employees an unliveable wage is not. If you think the business practices of someone like Martin Shkreli (contrary to popular opinion on these boards, this is the most punchable face not Matt Tkachuk) are okay then I guesss we’ll never agree. I don’t want to put words in your mouth but surely you don’t believe that the world should be controlled by the very few of the wealthiest people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, GetFocht said: Expecting anyone above you to hand out to make you better is never the right mentality. They are not obliged to assist. I donate quite a bit, but I would never expect someone to level the field field because they could easily fall. Like I said though, it's not expecting. It's helping. All "expecting" is is the way you're interpreting it. Not only that, but it also helps the economy in the end. It puts more money in people's pockets, allowing them to spend that money in business, which then actually gives businesses more money. There's even an economic benefit in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFocht Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I’m not sure that anyone is debating that people who work hard and manage their finances well don’t deserve what they have they have. If you make it by your hard work and innovation, fine more power to you. Amassing a fortune by by paying ridiculously low wages or hiring children and pretending that you are “teaching them a trade” is not. Paying employees an unliveable wage is not. If you think the business practices of someone like Martin Shkreli (contrary to popular opinion on these boards, this is the most punchable face not Matt Tkachuk) are okay then I guesss we’ll never agree. I don’t want to put words in your mouth but surely you don’t believe that the world should be controlled by the very few of the wealthiest people. Who controls the world? It isn't Shrek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/20/2021 at 11:49 AM, Jimmy McGill said: no its an actual -ism. Climate and health policy in particular are punching bags for even mainstream right wing people. Can you give me an example? I really can't think of something the alt-left is using anti-science thinking to push. IMO, @Smashian Kassian is correct in saying both left-wingers and right-wingers are guilty of science denial/sabotage. I personally believe that the Left will end up doing more harm to science than the right, especially during today’s political climate. You asked for an actual example so I will give you one written by Kate Kelland from Reuters: https://news.trust.org/item/20190418094429-rl1l2 Science is under attack by BOTH extremes of the political spectrum, however; only the Left has been able to cancel entire branches of science because particularly loud individuals were offended by the results. Yes the Right cries about scientific results but the research is published no matter how much they whine. The Left keeps scientists in a state of fear that keeps them from doing the research at all. More people need to be aware and combat this anti-progressive, scientific “cherry-picking”. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFocht Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, The Lock said: Like I said though, it's not expecting. It's helping. All "expecting" is is the way you're interpreting it. Not only that, but it also helps the economy in the end. It puts more money in people's pockets, allowing them to spend that money in business, which then actually gives businesses more money. There's even an economic benefit in all of this. There is no proof that 'giving' poor people money is better for them. Some will become better, most will fall back. A lot of it is education. Merely expecting, wanting, wishing, hoping, asking etc for those wealthy to help is the same as the homeless people in your neighborhood asking, hoping etc for help. The world is your oyster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFocht Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Kryten said: IMO, @Smashian Kassian is correct in saying both left-wingers and right-wingers are guilty of science denial/sabotage. I personally believe that the Left will end up doing more harm to science than the right, especially during today’s political climate. You asked for an actual example so I will give you one written by Kate Kelland from Reuters: https://news.trust.org/item/20190418094429-rl1l2 Science is under attack by BOTH extremes of the political spectrum, however; only the Left has been able to cancel entire branches of science because particularly loud individuals were offended by the results. Yes the Right cries about scientific results but the research is published no matter how much they whine. The Left keeps scientists in a state of fear that keeps them from doing the research at all. More people need to be aware and combat this anti-progressive, scientific “cherry-picking”. The extremes on all sides are some of the worst, regardless of party affiliation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Kryten said: IMO, @Smashian Kassian is correct in saying both left-wingers and right-wingers are guilty of science denial/sabotage. I personally believe that the Left will end up doing more harm to science than the right, especially during today’s political climate. You asked for an actual example so I will give you one written by Kate Kelland from Reuters: https://news.trust.org/item/20190418094429-rl1l2 Science is under attack by BOTH extremes of the political spectrum, however; only the Left has been able to cancel entire branches of science because particularly loud individuals were offended by the results. Yes the Right cries about scientific results but the research is published no matter how much they whine. The Left keeps scientists in a state of fear that keeps them from doing the research at all. More people need to be aware and combat this anti-progressive, scientific “cherry-picking”. Would you perhaps be able to give a specific example of a field that's been lost because of the left? I think the problem's more how a lot of scientific studies are being conducted. John Oliver did a good show once on scientific studies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw Basically, there's a lot of "science" happening at the same time, where you have results that are funded by corporations and are just on in the best interest of the populace as a whole. So while, yes, there are issues happening that you are bringing up and I'm not denying that, there's also "science" that's not really science. I think, when it comes to science, there's just a lot of murky waters. Don't get me wrong. I love science and read a lot about space and technology and learn a lot about physics, but how many studies are promoting chocolate and wine, and then saying the opposite a few years later? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, GetFocht said: The extremes on all sides are some of the worst, regardless of party affiliation. Yes, and those in the middle end up taking the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, GetFocht said: There is no proof that 'giving' poor people money is better for them. Some will become better, most will fall back. A lot of it is education. Merely expecting, wanting, wishing, hoping, asking etc for those wealthy to help is the same as the homeless people in your neighborhood asking, hoping etc for help. The world is your oyster. But not everyone thinks like this. If everyone did, we'd have a lot more entrepreneurs out there. Just because you're a certain way, it's kind of ignorant to expect others to be the same way. I want to add something to one of your sentences: A lot of it is the RIGHT education. Meaning you can go to school, get the "wrong" degree (ie. philosophy), and come out with... pretty much where you were before. You say there is no "proof", yet that same sentence proves that some people will become better: your own words even, and that's the point. It's not a perfect solution. Nothing is, but it's better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Junkyard Dog Posted February 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Each like side likes to dismiss each others POV. Both sides have their own interpretation of what's right and wrong, both factually and morally. Doesn't matter if you make a point. If you're on the other side it is considered invalid. It helps makes it impossible to come together and have a meaningful conversation. Edit: On top of that social media makes it easy to misinterpret and twist words. This is how a lot of misinformation is created. Edited February 22, 2021 by Junkyard Dog 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Kryten said: You asked for an actual example so I will give you one written by Kate Kelland from Reuters: https://news.trust.org/item/20190418094429-rl1l2 This is bad news for everybody. However I didn't see anything identifying a left vs right type of fight. Just idiots against science. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Lock said: Not on the scale that I'm suggesting. You can also create a reputation for quality products and then charge more for it. It's not easy, but it's possible. But in terms of what I'm suggesting, clearly what they're doing now is not enough, so I'm suggesting ramping it up more to have hopefully greater effect. Weirdly enough they are the number one buyer of American goods as it means quality and dependability. The bad tariff word would be the best for them. Edited February 22, 2021 by Violator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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