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#43 Q. Hughes now Officially The Worst +/- Defenseman & Player in the entire league.

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9 hours ago, skeena1 said:

Wayne Gretzky scored 130 points one year and was -25.

61 points on the PP for sure helped make up for that.   In a way QHs contributions need to be viewed under the same light.   To get an aggregate of his contributions you need to look at what a player adds to special teams when considering plus minus.   Bure had quite a few seasons around or close to zero, but was a game killer because of what he added to special teams.  61-25 would mean WG was on the ice for 36 more goals in 93-94, which wasn't a good season for the Kings.   

 

Ive been pretty tough on QHs this year because for sure he's looking like a third pairing PP specialist, part of the reason he's got a bad plus minus is because when we are behind the coach plays him more trying to tie it up - that in itself could be viewed as a mistake, because often it leads to another goal against - but sometimes it doesn't too.  Overall he's on the ice for one more 5 x 5 goal one every  .60 games on average or so.   With his PP points he's not as bad as some make him out to be as far as overall gain/loss goes.   

 

Edit:  As a curiosity - one thing Ovechkin won't ever do is catch up to WG even strength and short handed goals.   WG didn't feast on the PP the same way goals wise at least.   73 Shorties ... 617 5 x 5....eye popping.   And he was way more about the passing.   Just crazy how good he was, even in his 30's in the dead puck era,  half as good as he used to be, and no longer on good teams, still managed more then almost all stars who went on to become stars of the 2000's as well...and really his WHA pro points counted too.   If you do he score almost 3000points and 940 pro goals....averaging over 2 points his entire pro career.   Which is insane considering even in the dead puck era he was well over a PGP with a bad back, wrist and shoulder north 35 lol.  

Edited by IBatch
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I think Quinn just needs to go home this summer and get a lot stronger.  If he has as many points as he has and is still -13 there could be a bit of a problem.  It seems that most of Quinn's problems revolve around his defensive game.  Sometime in the beginning of the season a pic of Quinn in a boat with his shirt off.  He didn't look very strong at all.  He can't just rely on his talent (even though he has tons of it).  I think if he strengthens his core and his upper body he will have an easier time with those big wingers barreling down on him. B)

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The only way I’d ever take +\- literally is if hockey was a 1 on 1 sport. It’s not, QH plays a lot of minutes on a team that’s been blown out several times. Ever notice how players on a good team have a high +\-? Probably the most annoying individual player stat that there is. 

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3 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

I definitely noticed Montreal pressuring Hughes physically last night and having success turning the puck off him on the forecheck.

Almost as if the s outed the nucks, analyzed out tendencies, came up with a game plan and executed.it.  What a novel concept...didn't see any evidence to our Nucks preparing in a similar manner and if they did, they sure as hell didn't execute it. 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Woo-Hoo !  Quinn has moved from worst +/- player and defenceman in the entire National Hockey league to 8th worst player (3rd worst defenseman) with only 824 players with a better +/- record than him.   Things are looking up!

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I don’t blame hughes.  He’s an offensive defensive.  Of course he will be in the minus.

 

All I know is that I hope and pray the coaching staff will all be fired during the off season.    Everyone!   Anyone in a suit... GTFO!!! 

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9 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Woo-Hoo !  Quinn has moved from worst +/- player and defenceman in the entire National Hockey league to 8th worst player (3rd worst defenseman) with only 824 players with a better +/- record than him.   Things are looking up!

Dude, shut up. Your hatred of Hughes is pathetic!

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Green needs to reel him in, no other coach would let their kids play with such a loose approach. Tortorella would just bench him and that would be too far - destroy any young player, but most decent NHL coaches would find a middle ground. Green has gone the other way - he's publically stated that he lets the kids like Hughes and Petey basically do what they want offensively.

 

The problem with that is that Hughes always pinches and half the time gets caught up the ice. That's fine if we play safe with one forward and defenceman back, but Green plays an aggressive style with two forecheckers and a high forward. This has led to so many odd man rushes against, often ending up with a heavy minus against Hughes.

 

The other problem with him is that he's being beaten wide much more often than last season which surprises me. His speed going backwards last year was great but now he's being out-edged (even by sluggish Spezza...) which is a concern and something he needs to focus on. I'm not surprised to see him get out-muscled and lose puck battles, he's just not strong enough, but last season he found a way to win puck battles cleverly using his stick whereas this year he just gets brushed away so easily.

 

Say what you want, love him for the excitement and defensive play but he has regressed defensively and is easy to play against. Hamonic has done a wonderful job covering up these big holes to his credit.

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26 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Green needs to reel him in, no other coach would let their kids play with such a loose approach. Tortorella would just bench him and that would be too far - destroy any young player, but most decent NHL coaches would find a middle ground. Green has gone the other way - he's publically stated that he lets the kids like Hughes and Petey basically do what they want offensively.

 

The problem with that is that Hughes always pinches and half the time gets caught up the ice. That's fine if we play safe with one forward and defenceman back, but Green plays an aggressive style with two forecheckers and a high forward. This has led to so many odd man rushes against, often ending up with a heavy minus against Hughes.

 

The other problem with him is that he's being beaten wide much more often than last season which surprises me. His speed going backwards last year was great but now he's being out-edged (even by sluggish Spezza...) which is a concern and something he needs to focus on. I'm not surprised to see him get out-muscled and lose puck battles, he's just not strong enough, but last season he found a way to win puck battles cleverly using his stick whereas this year he just gets brushed away so easily.

 

Say what you want, love him for the excitement and defensive play but he has regressed defensively and is easy to play against. Hamonic has done a wonderful job covering up these big holes to his credit.

He hasn't regressed defensively. He isn't paired with Tanev anymore who did a great job of cleaning up mistakes and covering for him. They moved the puck much faster between each other which relieved any pressure forecheckers put on Hughes.

 

 His plus/ minus took as huge nose dive this year primarily when paired with Jordie Benn. All Benn is capable of is fishing the puck out of our net and tapping Hughes on the pads and saying "nice try". Now that he is paired with Hamonic and they are getting used to each other things have improved a bit.

 

I've been Team Benning & Green but for the life of me I can't fathom how they didn't think Tanev's support was paramount in Hughes early success. 

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1 hour ago, TheCammer said:

He hasn't regressed defensively. He isn't paired with Tanev anymore who did a great job of cleaning up mistakes and covering for him. They moved the puck much faster between each other which relieved any pressure forecheckers put on Hughes.

 

 His plus/ minus took as huge nose dive this year primarily when paired with Jordie Benn. All Benn is capable of is fishing the puck out of our net and tapping Hughes on the pads and saying "nice try". Now that he is paired with Hamonic and they are getting used to each other things have improved a bit.

 

I've been Team Benning & Green but for the life of me I can't fathom how they didn't think Tanev's support was paramount in Hughes early success. 

Absolutely agree, of course Tanev inflated Hughes numbers and Markstrom's great goaltending did the same (for everyone on the team as well), but watching his 1-on-1 play he never used to be beaten the way he has been this season and that's got nothing to do with his team-mates. I don't know, I've just watched him get walked around too many times this season which I never saw last season, and so many times go into the boards and not win a puck battle but of course there's not really a statistic for that.

 

Green and Baumer just need to learn how to use Hughes to get the most out of him. He's wonderful offensively, when he plays with our top line he's basically a 4th forward, so we have to play smart defensively - Hamonic at the very least and then we need a forward on that line to be aware defensively (Miller/Boeser?) and be ready to cover in a flash when the puck gets turned over. They didn't do that well the first 20 games and it showed. Where the coaching style did work fantastically was in the playoffs last season against St. Louis (and to an extent, Vegas at the start), where they played aggressively, won a lot of the pinches, generated so much offence out of the risky play but then when we turned it over we had a mix of defencemen and forwards tracking back as a 5-man unit to stop the other team's rushes. That part has fallen off this season and made Hughes' numbers much worse than they should be.

 

Like you said, I hated Benn with Hughes, biggest mistake the coaches could have made - put literally any of our other defencemen with him and we'd have a decent top pairing. I like Hamonic with Hughes and he's done a brilliant job, in the 15-or-so games they've been together since Hamonic's returned from injury, Hughes is only a -5 which is comparatively not too bad.

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I've mentioned this before but I really think that until Quinn is able to put on some muscle, he will continue to struggle containing larger players barreling down on him. B)

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3 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Rasmus Dahlen. -33 with only 12 points.

Sad really.

 

Am I doing it right?

He is playing on Buffalo though. A team worse than the pre-McDavid/Draisaitl Oilers. 
 

If they can start to ruin Eichel they could ruin just about anybody. 
 

Their fans have my pity. I can’t even muster the desire today make fun of them anymore. 

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Quinn will only get better. Especially if he has an actually competent defense coach running things next season. Blaming the players in totality for their performance doesn't factor in the fact that they are following set plays and methodology that their coaches implement. 

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Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Quinn will only get better. Especially if he has an actually competent defense coach running things next season. Blaming the players in totality for their performance doesn't factor in the fact that they are following set plays and methodology that their coaches implement. 

To a point yeah. 
 

Being 5’10’’ limits you’re capability defensively. On the flip side being that small and shifty helps significantly offensively. 

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