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[Edited] The Playoffs are Now out of Reach

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I’m already thinking about the post TdL last stretch  of the season with vets Sutter and Pearson gone and the opportunity to try young guys in different roles and line combinations . 

MacEwan Petersson Hoglander 

Gaudette Pettersson MacEwan

Hoglander Horvat Motte

Virtanen Horvat Hoglander 

etc etc etc

a coach could have some creative fun with it when it doesn’t matter. 

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

7 seasons... spending to the cap... and worse in the standings than we started.

 

Yep... that is clearly the fault of someone who hasn’t been in the league since before this song was a hit...

 

Brilliant.

 

Also, you still don’t know what the term “cherry pick” means so I guess you are just going to gloss over the part where you were just caught lying about my posts and are just moving on to changing goalposts and a new argument?

 

 

I honestly pity you lol. You spend so much time on the forums arguing with a bunch of nobodies.

 

I do know what the term cherry pick is. But once again, you don't address a single point in my post, and proceed to putting in a music video, in lieu of a dictionary word. What's the point in a further discussion with you?

 

The sandbag emote is perfect for a post like yours. Obviously you aren't rational. You just use the word 'rational' to sound like you are 'smart', much like you're pulling out the dictionary. You should be embarrassed.

Edited by Dazzle
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Just now, Dazzle said:

I honestly pity you lol. You spend so much time on the forums arguing with a bunch of nobodies.

Don’t put yourself down so much.  You are a “somebody” to someone I am sure.

 

 I do tend to martyr myself to enlighten the ignorant.  It is my calling I guess.  I can bang my head against brick walls with the best of them.

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Just now, Provost said:

Don’t put yourself down so much.  You are a “somebody” to someone I am sure.

 

 I do tend to martyr myself to enlighten the ignorant.  It is my calling I guess.  I can bang my head against brick walls with the best of them.

Get help, Provost. I think you've made it abundantly clear to the people here just how "rational" you are. Yup, anyone who disagrees with you is "irrational". What you need is an echo chamber.

And then resorting to childish personal jabs. Truly shameful. lol.

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51 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Get help, Provost. I think you've made it abundantly clear to the people here just how "rational" you are. Yup, anyone who disagrees with you is "irrational". What you need is an echo chamber.

And then resorting to childish personal jabs. Truly shameful. lol.

I mean, no one's clean here. You just insinuated he has mental issues for having an opposing viewpoint. Posters critical of the managmeent who've laid out their arguments over the years have been called loons, whiners, panicky knee-jerk alarmists, chicken littles.

 

Pro Benning:

 

Quote

Sure, you can carry on ranting like loons. I can in turn point out that your a bunch of panicky, spastic whiners

 

and yes, i do acknowledge no side is clean here

 

Anti-Benning:

Quote

 


 I do tend to martyr myself to enlighten the ignorant.  It is my calling I guess.  I can bang my head against brick walls with the best of them.

 

 

So if we want to have some level of civil discourse we gotta be sure to attack the arguments and not each other. 

 

Edited by DSVII
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3 hours ago, Provost said:

7 seasons... spending to the cap... and worse in the standings than we started.

 

Yep... that is clearly the fault of someone who hasn’t been in the league since before this song was a hit...

 

Brilliant.

 

Also, you still don’t know what the term “cherry pick” means so I guess you are just going to gloss over the part where you were just caught lying about my posts and are just moving on to changing goalposts and a new argument?

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, playboi19 said:

 

That is hilarious... I wish I could say I had see that before my reference.  It was just a wonderful coincidence... 

 

Just good karma coming my way for living so well.

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1 hour ago, DSVII said:

Posters critical of the managmeent who've laid out their arguments over the years have been called loons, whiners, panicky knee-jerk alarmists, chicken littles.

 

I’ve been called dumb.

Edited by Dumb Nuck
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16 hours ago, oldnews said:

the weaponization of cap is an interesting debate.

I look at other teams in a position to 'weaponize' their cap - and what did they do?  Ottawa, for example, spent a 2nd to take on 6.5 million Stepan.   A 5th for $4 millon Gud.  A 4th for Watson.  They got a 2nd for eating Coburn and Paquette - but really, if they'd prioritized 'cap weaponization' you'd think they could have eaten some real garbage for a lot more gain than that.

Arizona did some comparable things - the analyticz geniuses in Arizona - who acquired Stepan in the first place at the price of a top 10 pick....ate Kessel for no real gain.  Ate the Datsyuk deal, and threw in a 2nd round pick to trade up 4 mere spots...

You have to ask yourself how popular (or effective) the "weaponization of cap" i eating cap dumps for assets - has actually been....

The #proper-rebuild had to give up a 1st to dump on year of Marleau....

Not sure if Benning deserves the disproportionate, perhaps fishbowl take on his cap failures.  There are literally Loui Erikssons all over the place in the NHL.

this is what I was thinking as well, was that all worth it? I don't see it, but I'd like to see a full analysis of the cost-benefit of it somewhere if someone has taken the time to run down what happened with all the picks.

 

One thing I do know is if Benning had "weaponized" the cap, the team likely doesn't get that playoff experience last year, which to me is more valuable for guys like Petey and  Hughes than an.extra 2nd. 

 

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16 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

How so?

well, look at the prospect pool since Benning took over, its never been this good. 

 

16 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

 

It's possible whenever you have cap space and you're not looking to immediately contend.

 

It's not the only strategy that you need, but having some extra 2nd and 3rd round picks and B prospects in the system doesn't hurt. Just more chances that one hits (like Hoglander, for example).

for sure, I get that argument and it makes some sense, But everything comes at a cost as well. I also just don't see how under the re-tool plan that Linden-Benning-Aqulini hatched it was even an option here, its really just an academic argument since imo it was never in the cards under this management group. 

 

16 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

 

I'm not a huge fan of Benning's drafting but if you're someone that is, you ought to advocate he plays to his strength. It's only logical.

again, true. But he was also trying to re-tool on the fly with some tweener bets (Vey, Bear, etc).

 

16 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I dunno. Tanev was pretty important to this team, both his contributions on the ice and what he brought off the ice (leader by example, well-liked, Hughes' boy).

He was for sure. I just didn't want to see a 4 or.5 year term for him, AND 6 for Marky. That would have been crippling. 

 

16 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I find it confusing that so many people have defended the mid and long-term veteran signings of depth/support players and then also support the letting go of an important veteran when we're supposed to be on the uptick?

 

Bad contracts should have been cleared out in years 1, 2, 3, 4... we shouldn't be letting go of valuable pieces before we even become a contender. That should come after Cup runs.

the defence lies in creating a team that is at least somewhat competitive night to night for the kids like Petey to compete in. It wold have been nice if we had seen 3 vs 4 year contract terms for Roussel in particular tho. 

 

I do think all the covid weirdness is contributing to the train wreck we are witnessing now, and if we had a full season we'd get back to being a bubble playoff team this year. But man this thing has gone sideways in nearly every way but injuries. 

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43 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well, look at the prospect pool since Benning took over, its never been this good. 

 

for sure, I get that argument and it makes some sense, But everything comes at a cost as well. I also just don't see how under the re-tool plan that Linden-Benning-Aqulini hatched it was even an option here, its really just an academic argument since imo it was never in the cards under this management group. 

 

again, true. But he was also trying to re-tool on the fly with some tweener bets (Vey, Bear, etc).

 

He was for sure. I just didn't want to see a 4 or.5 year term for him, AND 6 for Marky. That would have been crippling. 

 

the defence lies in creating a team that is at least somewhat competitive night to night for the kids like Petey to compete in. It wold have been nice if we had seen 3 vs 4 year contract terms for Roussel in particular tho. 

 

I do think all the covid weirdness is contributing to the train wreck we are witnessing now, and if we had a full season we'd get back to being a bubble playoff team this year. But man this thing has gone sideways in nearly every way but injuries. 

All valid, well thought out points.   Good example of intelligent social discourse on this site - thanks J McGill.   We wouldn't all agree on what's going on, and this is hockey so id think as fans we are all emotionally connected as well - so get it's not always easy not to react to certain posters.    This season is a train wreck.   Don't think it's any one thing, but a combination of schedule, new faces, coaching, players and covid.

 

At the very least it's shown the teams group that you can't get yourself into losing streaks like the ones we first had, strange usually a strong start has been something the teams capable every other TG year and even a little with WD, injuries were a big part of losing back then.    The last ten games or so things have settled down as far as blow outs, and for the most part even empty net goals - two third period comebacks from two blown leads...in other words a lot of one goal and a couple  two goal games...and two wins lol.    The gap in losing isn't as bad.   Also agree with a full season this team could dig itself out. 

 

The shot clock against has also gone down considerably...still not great but that differential is better then it's been over those ten games then quite awhile. 

 

I for one, am looking forward to adding a blue chip D prospect to the lineup as a result - or an eventual Horvat replacement if ones available.  Team needs both these things ... like now. 

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

All valid, well thought out points.   Good example of intelligent social discourse on this site - thanks J McGill.   We wouldn't all agree on what's going on, and this is hockey so id think as fans we are all emotionally connected as well - so get it's not always easy not to react to certain posters.    This season is a train wreck.   Don't think it's any one thing, but a combination of schedule, new faces, coaching, players and covid.

 

At the very least it's shown the teams group that you can't get yourself into losing streaks like the ones we first had, strange usually a strong start has been something the teams capable every other TG year and even a little with WD, injuries were a big part of losing back then.    The last ten games or so things have settled down as far as blow outs, and for the most part even empty net goals - two third period comebacks from two blown leads...in other words a lot of one goal and a couple  two goal games...and two wins lol.    The gap in losing isn't as bad.   Also agree with a full season this team could dig itself out. 

 

The shot clock against has also gone down considerably...still not great but that differential is better then it's been over those ten games then quite awhile. 

 

I for one, am looking forward to adding a blue chip D prospect to the lineup as a result - or an eventual Horvat replacement if ones available.  Team needs both these things ... like now. 

for sure there are many valid takes on it, none of us have perfect information.

 

I guess I find it weird that people are looking at all 7 years of Jims tenure and assigning sole blame for this season in particular based on decisions made in years 1-4. 

 

I don't see how anyone can look at Jim's time here and not see a bright line pre-and-post Linden (who I loved as a player btw). 

 

The only thing really unique about Jim is he might be the only GM who's been given two successive kicks at the can without being fired in between. 

 

I'm not happy that Green and his assistants don't have an answer, I'm not doing a jig over it thats for sure. But I don't see going into next season like this either.

 

 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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47 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Everyone needs to stop with the insults or the thread'll be shut down.

 

(Thank you to those trying to offer some good responses without the other garbage).

 

 

 

Everything Canucks talk needs to be shut down, imo.  

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3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

 

He was for sure. I just didn't want to see a 4 or.5 year term for him, AND 6 for Marky. That would have been crippling. 

 

the defence lies in creating a team that is at least somewhat competitive night to night for the kids like Petey to compete in. It wold have been nice if we had seen 3 vs 4 year contract terms for Roussel in particular tho. 

 

 

Agree, to much term for Tanev and Markstrom.

Roussel has not been, and probably never will be, the same since his knee injury. So the extra year looks extra bad.

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42 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

for sure there are many valid takes on it, none of us have perfect information.

 

I guess I find it weird that people are looking at all 7 years of Jims tenure and assigning sole blame for this season in particular based on decisions made in years 1-4. 

 

I don't see how anyone can look at Jim's time here and not see a bright line pre-and-post Linden (who I loved as a player btw). 

 

The only thing really unique about Jim is he might be the only GM who's been given two successive kicks at the can without being fired in between. 

 

I'm not happy that Green and his assistants don't have an answer, I'm not doing a jig over it thats for sure. But I don't see going into next season like this either.

 

 

I don't either (coaches).   Pretty much have to pull a miracle off at this point to get an extension.  And agree - none of us really had much of a clue what's going on.  

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34 minutes ago, stawns said:

Everything Canucks talk needs to be shut down, imo.  

Well there are actually quite a few posters - some old and some new - that are still having civil dialogues ... at least that's how it looks on my phone now that i've used the ignore button lol.   Shutting down the entire thing would be a pretty shameful and embarrassing wouldn't it?   Seems either far right or left burn books start a bonfire sort of action.     Maybe your right - everyone could take a break for a week and reflect, but i for one enjoy time on this site as a fan.   And given the collective see quite a lot of valid points.   And am somewhat embarrassed my self at the totality of things lately ... things will for sure get better - eventually. 

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14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I don't either (coaches).   Pretty much have to pull a miracle off at this point to get an extension.  And agree - none of us really had much of a clue what's going on.  

I think that is true, fair or not.

Green had the team playing above their talent level and worked hard every night last year.  Most players on the team had career years.  Opposing coaches and the knowledgeable pundits remarked on how well the team was coached... and how any team coming into town knew they were going to have a hard time matching the effort output.

Did he forget how to be a coach because of a Covid break?  Was it just a fluke all along?  Was the team equally bad, but just had a Vezina level goaltender hiding it all? (easy to be aggressive and push forward hard every shift when you don't need to worry about backchecking and coverage since your goalie is going to save the day every time).

Honestly, I think most of the difference is in the horses Green has to work with this year and maybe he hasn't adjusted properly to those losses.  Aside from Markstrom... Tanev AND Stecher were our best defensive D in terms of shot suppression and match ups.  That is a lot to lose in a short period of time when that was already a weakness on the team.

I don't see how Benning comes out of this year (barring a miraculous turnaround that has us at least sniffing at the playoffs), so the coach is a decision for after that.  You don't saddle a new GM with a coach that was just picked and signed long term.

Probably the order is:
Hire a President
Fire Benning and Weisbrod (or just keep them under supervision for the new President to assess)
Put in an interim GM (if you fire Benning)
Fire some of the coaching staff
Put in an interim guy like Smyl for the last hunk of the season who isn't in the plans for a permanent replacement
Wait to see who is available in the offseason for both coach and GM

One would "think" our job is an attractive one, there are pieces in place and most would bet we are on the upswing.  It makes a GM look like a genius taking a team from perennial lottery team to playoffs in a short period... even if it was really just mostly timing.  A lot better than taking a job with an aging core like Pittsburgh where it will be hard to look good, even with all the right moves.

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