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Just trying to take my mind off last game.............

 

Ok, so here  is the proposal

 

Ty Smith, Nolan Foote and NJ Devils, 2021 1st

 

for

 

Quinn Hughes

 

Admittedly, Smith is a step down from Hughes offensively, but he is a bigger and much better defense player. Nolan Foote has the ability to be a 1st line LWer, who is a big body, and plays a grittier game. The first should be in the top 10, which should give us a pretty decent prospect.

 

Yes you love Hughes, but is the move a good move for the Canucks, Smith looks to be a normal 54 pt average 1st line defenseman, and probably show a little higher on the offensive Canucks.

 

Ty Smith will cost less, coming off his ELC in 2 more years, for a much more controlled cap hit.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Pears said:

Can we please stop trying to trade Hughes?

Hey, I would trade my mother, if I could improve the team.

 

She is tougher than Horvat, and the ref would know exactly what he did wrong!

 

 

Edited by janisahockeynut
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9 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hey, I would trade my mother, if I could improve the team.

 

She is tougher than Horvat, and the ref would know exactly what he did wrong!

 

 

But this doesn’t improve the team. Like, at all. 

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Usually the winner of deals like these is whoever gets the best player.  So NJ would be the winner.

 

Get NJ to take LE (no retention) then I would be tempted to make the trade.

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I don’t think NJ actually takes this deal.  It’s too big an overpayment. Hughes is better. But Smith has just started his career and looks great so far.  Foote is 5 games into his professional career in the AHL but looks like a great prospect. The first is a high first.  That’s too much for a rebuilding team to give up for what could end up being only a marginal upgrade from Smith to Hughes 

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1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

Franchise's first elite level d-man and we're already trying to trade em. Our fanbase can truly be wack sometimes.

You see N7, this is why I have a problem with some of CDC

They can not see past their nose

Remember the saying...."All that glitters is not Gold"?

 

Here is the reality of Hughes

Hughes is an elite Offensive Defenseman, but a sub-par defensive defenseman

 

Hughes over all contribution to the Canucks, which includes PP and even strength

Hughes is a -3 defenseman overall, or as close to that as I can make out

Basically his -13 at even strength minus his plus 10 PP =, his -3

 

Taking the same formula, let's look at Ty Smith

Smith is a +7 at even strength plus his 2 PP = his + 9 overall ratng

 

a difference of +12 between Hughes and Ty Smith

Now when you look at Ty Smith's numbers in junior he was +49 even before PP points are added in his last year

 

Now, all I am saying is temper your opinion on Quinn Hughes

as I would not argue that my calculations are incomplete, but using the same theory for both and you can see the results

 

Yes Hughes is better and more dynamic, but a high 1st line player (Nolan Foote + a high 1st better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by janisahockeynut
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5 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I don’t think NJ actually takes this deal.  It’s too big an overpayment. Hughes is better. But Smith has just started his career and looks great so far.  Foote is 5 games into his professional career in the AHL but looks like a great prospect. The first is a high first.  That’s too much for a rebuilding team to give up for what could end up being only a marginal upgrade from Smith to Hughes 

It's hard to know/spec on the threshold where they'd bail. Marketing of two Hughes Bros would be pretty persuasive for them.

 

But then they might still be steamed on the lousy result from that famous 2013 draft swindle!

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15 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I don’t think NJ actually takes this deal.  It’s too big an overpayment. Hughes is better. But Smith has just started his career and looks great so far.  Foote is 5 games into his professional career in the AHL but looks like a great prospect. The first is a high first.  That’s too much for a rebuilding team to give up for what could end up being only a marginal upgrade from Smith to Hughes 

So we add a Gaudette to the proposal.......

 

LOL....something that CDC may have a hard time wrapping their collective heads around............lol

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Yeesh Jan. 

 

If you look at the entire history of the Canucks. We have never had a franchise D. I mean we are talking Lumme, Edler, Ohlund, Salo,....... Doug Lidster?  in terms of best D to ever play for the Canucks. Like ever. 

 

You don't go trading Hughes you move heaven and earth to get him a partner to reach his full potential. A Ham to his Juice. Sure Hughes +/-  isn't great but he's a rover and we literally have him paired with a 7/8D a guy who spent most of last year as a healthy scratch. Surely his numbers would be better alongside a 25yo Seabrook. Instead of trading Hughes JB needs to be putting in the leg work to find Hughes enabler. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

You see N7, this is why I have a problem with some of CDC

They can not see past their nose

Remember the saying...."All that glitters is not Gold"?

 

Here is the reality of Hughes

Hughes is an elite Offensive Defenseman, but a sub-par defensive defenseman

 

Hughes over all contribution to the Canucks, which includes PP and even strength

Hughes is a -3 defenseman overall, or as close to that as I can make out

Basically his -13 at even strength minus his plus 10 PP =, his -3

 

Taking the same formula, let's look at Ty Smith

Smith is a +7 at even strength plus his 2 PP = his + 9 overall ratng

 

a difference of +12 between Hughes and Ty Smith

Now when you look at Ty Smith's numbers in junior he was +49 even before PP points are added in his last year

 

Now, all I am saying is temper your opinion on Quinn Hughes

as I would not argue that my calculations are incomplete, but using the same theory for both and you can see the results

 

Yes Hughes is better and more dynamic, but a high 1st line player (Nolan Foote + a high 1st better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't see past their nose eh? Was Horvat a sub par defender when he was -30? He's -15 this season too. Must be sub par defensively by your metric. Hughes is not an elite shutdown guy but is defensively responsible. He also eats minutes that nobody else does against the opponents best players. So again, his minus has little to do with his lack of defensive game. Look past your nose and actually dig into the stats instead of just the surface of them. "He's a minus must be bad defensively :D "

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I suggested Hughes+ for Severson and Ty Smith and practically got the same response. 


I don’t know how much of a downgrade Smith is offensively. The kid has 8 points in 13 games (6 of those points are at ES) while playing on the 3rd worst offensive team in the league.  

 

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16 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Can't see past their nose eh? Was Horvat a sub par defender when he was -30? He's -15 this season too. Must be sub par defensively by your metric. Hughes is not an elite shutdown guy but is defensively responsible. He also eats minutes that nobody else does against the opponents best players. So again, his minus has little to do with his lack of defensive game. Look past your nose and actually dig into the stats instead of just the surface of them. "He's a minus must be bad defensively :D "

Looking at the year Bo was a -30.

CF 45.8%  FF 44.4% PDO 97.1 43.0% oZone starts 57.0% dZone starts.

The way Willie used a 20 year old Bo in terms of zone starts are a a big reason he was -30. Bo is good defensively but I don't exactly see any Selke votes the past few seasons.

 

Here are Quinn's stats so far this season.

CF 51.3% FF 49.2% PDO 97.1 67.8% oZone starts 32.2% dZone starts. The #'s aren't too bad but when you take into account the zone starts they are pretty bad. What if Quinn was used the way Bo was used as a 20 year old and had 43% oZone and 57% dZone starts. I shudder to think what Quinn's #'s would look like right now but somewhere around -20 CF 45% FF 42% PDO 93. So no Quinn is not defensively responsible yet and he doesn't really "eat minutes that nobody else does against the opponents best players", he's at 22:14 per game with no PK time and 4:35 on the PP. He's a PP specialist who uses his deployment and skating to avoid being a complete defensive disaster. 

Edited by GritGrinder
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23 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Can't see past their nose eh? Was Horvat a sub par defender when he was -30? He's -15 this season too. Must be sub par defensively by your metric. Hughes is not an elite shutdown guy but is defensively responsible. He also eats minutes that nobody else does against the opponents best players. So again, his minus has little to do with his lack of defensive game. Look past your nose and actually dig into the stats instead of just the surface of them. "He's a minus must be bad defensively :D "

What Horvats plus/minus says is that he is scored upon, more than he scores...............so yes, as a 1B centerman, he is sub par defensively.

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