Can one bad contract ruin a whole roaster?

[AV.]

We got tons of bad contracts on this team and if we didn't play Ottawa three times, we'd be the worst in the league by a long shot.  Our team is an example of evidence that would corroborate or legitimize this theory.

[CBH1926]

Nothing like when whole roaster gets ruined, honestly I blame the cook!

[goog16]

one bad carrot can ruin a whole roaster...

[Drakrami]

Jeff Skinner's 72 million contract is looking like the most disgusting thing ever. Hope the guy turns it around. 

[The Colt 45s]

A whole roaster or a whole roster?

Some roasted chicken sounds great tonight.  Hopefully I do not have to share with the whole team.

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Of course no goals but they're almost a point per game players right now, these contracts aren't Buffalo's issue.

 

In regards to us, contracts can certainly kill a team but 1 bad contract (for example, Eriksson) isn't enough to explain our poor season. Say we didn't have Eriksson and traded Virtanen in the off-season, we could have re-signed Tanev and Toffoli. Would that have been enough to keep our season afloat? Perhaps. Say we just didn't have Eriksson and had an extra 6M lying around to sign just Toffoli, would that have been enough? Probably not. This season has been a combination of poor defence, not enough time practicing, exhaustion, many new players and a big step down in goaltending. One scorer isn't going to change that.

 

Going forward, I hope JB uses this bad season to highlight the fact that we can't dish out stupid money. Petey was going into this season looking like he deserved Aho-type money and contract. Instead, he's been well under a point per game, not useful defensively and he doesn't do much else in all fairness. Hughes has been brilliant offensively but is one of if not the worse defenceman defensively in the NHL right now (+/- wise anyway) but is getting beat physically and with speed around the outside too often, something we didn't see last season with or without Tanev. Demko certainly hasn't improved on his playoff performance and has some very average numbers but can't really be blamed for them, but certainly hasn't done enough to warrant a juicy contract.

 

I think JB should throw out 3 bridge contracts and let the kids decide what happens to themselves. 6M x 2 years for Petey and Hughes, 3M x 2 for Demko. They should all start hitting their primes at the end of those contracts and deserve big raises which LE's money can afford them. Meanwhile, we need to sign a lot of extra players (have to sign lots of defencemen and middle-6 forwards) so could use the cap relief. Petey and Hughes do not deserve 7-9M based on how they've played, and certainly not with this current cap situation.

[Goat James]

Not according to CDC, we've got at least five bad contracts (Eriksson, Myers, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter), but people still think Benning is a good GM. 

[GritGrinder]

I love how everyone is piling on Buffalo when even with all their issues they STILL have a better record right now than the Canucks in a way tougher division than the North. Sabres currently have a 13.4% chance to make the playoffs and the Canucks 4.2%.

The lack of self-awareness among Canuck fans is absolutely amazing sometimes.

[GritGrinder]

The timing of having to sign internal UFA's and RFA's is the crucial part for Benning right now.

 

The cap is going to remain flat for at least next season and even if it goes up for 2022-23 and 2023-24 it will likely only go up by roughly $2m per season based on previous cap lifts.

This is where JB has to be careful with the term of the assumed bridge deals for EP, Hughes and Demko. 2 year bridge deals would be quite possibly the worst move he could make and needs to get 3 yr deals done. 2 yr deals would mean that on July 1st 2023 Bo and JT would be UFA's and EP, Hughes, Demko and Hoglander will be RFA's all looking for raises and Brock will have to be signed the year before and he's on pace for quite a raise. With the cap likely being somewhere around $85m for 23-24 that only gives JB and extra $4m than he has to work with now.

 

Worse case scenario is that the Canucks fall further out of contention in the next couple of weeks while EP, Hughes, Hoglander and Brock pile up their stats. Just remember Hall, Eberle and RNH would rack up 200+pts between the 3 of them and the Oilers would be at the bottom of the league year after year. Brock and Quinn are among the league leaders, EP, Bo and Miller are close to point per game players and yet 3rd worst team in the league.

 

JB has harder decisions to make than some people think. Lets hope he makes the right ones or his replacement does.

[Wolfgang Durst]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Of course no goals but they're almost a point per game players right now, these contracts aren't Buffalo's issue.

 

In regards to us, contracts can certainly kill a team but 1 bad contract (for example, Eriksson) isn't enough to explain our poor season. Say we didn't have Eriksson and traded Virtanen in the off-season, we could have re-signed Tanev and Toffoli. Would that have been enough to keep our season afloat? Perhaps. Say we just didn't have Eriksson and had an extra 6M lying around to sign just Toffoli, would that have been enough? Probably not. This season has been a combination of poor defence, not enough time practicing, exhaustion, many new players and a big step down in goaltending. One scorer isn't going to change that.

 

Going forward, I hope JB uses this bad season to highlight the fact that we can't dish out stupid money. Petey was going into this season looking like he deserved Aho-type money and contract. Instead, he's been well under a point per game, not useful defensively and he doesn't do much else in all fairness. Hughes has been brilliant offensively but is one of if not the worse defenceman defensively in the NHL right now (+/- wise anyway) but is getting beat physically and with speed around the outside too often, something we didn't see last season with or without Tanev. Demko certainly hasn't improved on his playoff performance and has some very average numbers but can't really be blamed for them, but certainly hasn't done enough to warrant a juicy contract.

 

I think JB should throw out 3 bridge contracts and let the kids decide what happens to themselves. 6M x 2 years for Petey and Hughes, 3M x 2 for Demko. They should all start hitting their primes at the end of those contracts and deserve big raises which LE's money can afford them. Meanwhile, we need to sign a lot of extra players (have to sign lots of defencemen and middle-6 forwards) so could use the cap relief. Petey and Hughes do not deserve 7-9M based on how they've played, and certainly not with this current cap situation.

Even a big body like Erik Gudbranson got beaten on the outside: 

 

 

[Wolfgang Durst]

1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

The timing of having to sign internal UFA's and RFA's is the crucial part for Benning right now.

 

The cap is going to remain flat for at least next season and even if it goes up for 2022-23 and 2023-24 it will likely only go up by roughly $2m per season based on previous cap lifts.

This is where JB has to be careful with the term of the assumed bridge deals for EP, Hughes and Demko. 2 year bridge deals would be quite possibly the worst move he could make and needs to get 3 yr deals done. 2 yr deals would mean that on July 1st 2023 Bo and JT would be UFA's and EP, Hughes, Demko and Hoglander will be RFA's all looking for raises and Brock will have to be signed the year before and he's on pace for quite a raise. With the cap likely being somewhere around $85m for 23-24 that only gives JB and extra $4m than he has to work with now.

 

Worse case scenario is that the Canucks fall further out of contention in the next couple of weeks while EP, Hughes, Hoglander and Brock pile up their stats. Just remember Hall, Eberle and RNH would rack up 200+pts between the 3 of them and the Oilers would be at the bottom of the league year after year. Brock and Quinn are among the league leaders, EP, Bo and Miller are close to point per game players and yet 3rd worst team in the league.

 

JB has harder decisions to make than some people think. Lets hope he makes the right ones or his replacement does.

Funny how many Canucks fans are expecting Jim still to be in charge ..... He demonstrated on many occasions that he is unable to get things done. Nevertheless Canucks fans still have plenty of faith that Jim will be doing the right things going forward. Can't believe...

[Tre Mac]

Need buyouts like in the NFL, this is getting ridiculous.

[kloubek]

20 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I think the 6 million dollar contract for Eriksson has been overstated.

I don't think so. While I supported the signing, LE has been a shell of his former self as soon as ink touched paper. 6m is enough for a really good player. It could have covered 150% of TT's salary, as an example. Where would we be with an extra 11 goals? Well, for starters, I think we would be the highest scoring team in the NHL. (With extra games played). We would have won more of our 1-goal games, and would probably be sitting in a playoff position. I'd say that's worth stating.  Plus there would be some left over. Combine the 6m cap hit for LE, Luongo's penalty, etc, and we'd actually have a reasonable amount to work with right now in a perfect world.

Man, that Skinner contract looked brutal at signing but now it's going to end up one of the worst contracts in the NHL for quite some time if they don't manage to rectify it somehow.

Edited February 22, 2021 by kloubek

[Dazzle]

10 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I don't think so. While I supported the signing, LE has been a shell of his former self as soon as ink touched paper. 6m is enough for a really good player. It could have covered 150% of TT's salary, as an example. Where would we be with an extra 11 goals? Well, for starters, I think we would be the highest scoring team in the NHL. (With extra games played). We would have won more of our 1-goal games, and would probably be sitting in a playoff position. I'd say that's worth stating.

When I mean overstated, I am talking about how it has been talked to death. 6 million, while not chump change, is a little less than 1/10th of the salary cap of 82 something million - meaning there was room to make one mistake like this.

 

I understand why Eriksson was signed - and I, too, thought he would be a good signing for the Sedins, given their history together. I think there were other signings (Sutter/Roussel/Beagle) that were a bigger reason for why they handcuffed Benning into the spot he's in now. Furthermore, it's not like Eriksson's the worst contract of the three total UFAS that were signed either (James Neal and Milan Lucic were EQUALLY as bad). Whereas the Sutter/Roussell/Beagle were signings that Benning could have done better (in hindsight).

 

I don't think that it was a mistake not to re-sign Toffoli, although as of right now, it looks really bad considering how many goals he's scored on Vancouver. Yet the contract could potentially be an anchor for Montreal down the road. There was no guarantee that Toffoli would have produced like he did during his short run here as well. Hypothetically, he could have taken a step backward after signing the contract. No one will know for sure. Also, the same complaints that fans made about signing big fish UFAs like Eriksson are harping on Benning for not signing a big fish UFA...Super contradictory. Lol.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Dazzle

[kloubek]

23 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

When I mean overstated, I am talking about how it has been talked to death. 

 

There was no guarantee that Toffoli would have produced like he did during his short run here as well. Hypothetically, he could have taken a step backward after signing the contract. No one will know for sure.

LE ended up a bad signing, but I really don't think there is much point in ragging on JB for it either. Those of us who understand hockey also understand why he did it, even though it was universally agreed the final years may not have looked so great. Who knew it would have been the entire remainder of his career where he sucked. What's done is done.

 

As for TT, you're right - nobody can predict the future. But that's kinda moot, since it applies to *any* contract signing. At least in this case we knew TT had chemistry with the team and worked well on the Canucks before he left. I'd say that mitigates a lot of the risk right there. I will say, however, that as good as TT would likely have looked remaining on the Canucks that he is producing more than I would have expected this season, making him leaving looking worse than it really should. IMO, TT is a medium end (at best) 1st line player who is playing like a star right now. Given that this is likely Pearson's last season with us, I would have rather had TT signed making Podkolzin a luxury instead of a necessity that he works out.

 

Oh well. A lot is going to happen soon with re-signing Petey and Huggy, expiring contracts and the end of Luongo's unfair recapture penalty in a couple of years. Despite a flat cap world, hopefully Benning can find a way to finally make it all work.

[Dazzle]

33 minutes ago, kloubek said:

LE ended up a bad signing, but I really don't think there is much point in ragging on JB for it either. Those of us who understand hockey also understand why he did it, even though it was universally agreed the final years may not have looked so great. Who knew it would have been the entire remainder of his career where he sucked. What's done is done.

 

As for TT, you're right - nobody can predict the future. But that's kinda moot, since it applies to *any* contract signing. At least in this case we knew TT had chemistry with the team and worked well on the Canucks before he left. I'd say that mitigates a lot of the risk right there. I will say, however, that as good as TT would likely have looked remaining on the Canucks that he is producing more than I would have expected this season, making him leaving looking worse than it really should. IMO, TT is a medium end (at best) 1st line player who is playing like a star right now. Given that this is likely Pearson's last season with us, I would have rather had TT signed making Podkolzin a luxury instead of a necessity that he works out.

 

Oh well. A lot is going to happen soon with re-signing Petey and Huggy, expiring contracts and the end of Luongo's unfair recapture penalty in a couple of years. Despite a flat cap world, hopefully Benning can find a way to finally make it all work.

I just think that with anything, there is always a risk. For example, Miller has not been the same this year. He seems like he has regressed a little bit and we start to see his flaws as a player, particularly with regards to his defensive awareness. So just because Toffoli did well last year doesn't necessarily mean he would perform at that same standard after the contract. If he falters with that new contract, you can bet the same people ragging on Benning for signing Eriksson will say that Benning erred in signing Toffoli. In summary, it seems the criticism on Benning will always exist regardless of what he does. Even the trade for Miller was heavily criticized, yet those people who complained have since been silenced after Miller's performance last season.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I think Tim Horton’s is living proof.  

 

 

[kloubek]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

For example, Miller has not been the same this year. He seems like he has regressed a little bit and we start to see his flaws as a player, particularly with regards to his defensive awareness. So just because Toffoli did well last year doesn't necessarily mean he would perform at that same standard after the contract. If he falters with that new contract, you can bet the same people ragging on Benning for signing Eriksson will say that Benning erred in signing Toffoli. In summary, it seems the criticism on Benning will always exist regardless of what he does.

To be fair to Miller, his first year here blew away all expectations. I am not surprised to see a regression - in particular when most of our entire team isn't exactly producing like they should either.

 

But you are right - the only time I saw the majority on CDC content with anything is when we were in the height of the Sedin years. Presidents trophies tend to do that. Even still, you got the complaining about the trade for Ballard or "Burrows, do we need him" and similar threads.

[Nucksfollower1983]

20 hours ago, goog16 said:

one bad carrot can ruin a whole roaster...

Loui Carrotsson!

[nowhereman]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:44 AM, Goat James said:

Not according to CDC, we've got at least five bad contracts (Eriksson, Myers, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter), but people still think Benning is a good GM. 

Don't forget Ferland, Benn, and the ghosts of Sven Baertschi and Ryan Spooner. The cherry on top is Luongo but that's not Benning's fault.

 

Thankfully, we'll clear the books at the end of next season.