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[Proposals] With an eye to the future


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Now that we can pretty much put a pin on this season, what are the moves we can make to set us up for expansion, the offseason, and future seasons.

 

1.  Obviously trade all the expiring contracts for picks.  Any or even all of the guys you can unload from the list of:Pearson, Sutter, Benn, Hamonic, Baertschi, Roussel, Beagle.  Do it fast to let us eat as much of the ELC bonuses this year as possible and not push them.

2.  Trade Virtanen+ (Gaudette?) to Buffalo for Borgen. They can’t protect him and their season is pretty much done too.

3.  Sign Connor Murphy and Tryamkin in the offseason.

4.  Find a 3C exposed in expansion using  the draft picks we acquire from our rentals this season.  A guy like Tierney if he is available because Ottawa decides to protect all younger cheaper players.

 

A defence next year with some size and mobility, but also cheap enough to be realistic with our cap situation.

 

Hughes-Murphy

Borgen-Schmidt

Juolevi-Myers

Tryamkin

 

 

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@Provost I would personally drop the 'get picks' part further down the list, its more important to clear cap imo. Yes picks are great but the mid-rounders we'd get back won't be contributors until the next rebuild in all likelihood. I'd even clear cap at the cost of some mid-round picks now.

 

Jake is an utter disappointment. His low effort is painful, even Loui is putting in a more now imo. 

 

Are you sure Ottawa needs to expose Tierney? 

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

@Provost I would personally drop the 'get picks' part further down the list, its more important to clear cap imo. Yes picks are great but the mid-rounders we'd get back won't be contributors until the next rebuild in all likelihood. I'd even clear cap at the cost of some mid-round picks now.

 

Jake is an utter disappointment. His low effort is painful, even Loui is putting in a more now imo. 

 

Are you sure Ottawa needs to expose Tierney? 

The picks is really just the return for the clearing cap space to not take on other bad contracts... it doesn't matter that much if they are 2nd or 6th rounders, you are right the priority is clearing the cap space by moving the rentals.  The only use I see for the picks (aside from being lottery tickets) is that they will be the currency teams will want back in return for players they can't protect in expansion.  They won't want another expansion eligible player back as that doesn't do them any good.  Only guys who are exempt and picks will be what is traded.  If we have half a dozen 3rd-5th round picks going into that market, as well as spare cap space, we are in a really good spot.

Ottawa doesn't "have" to expose Tierney... who knows what they choose to do though, they have a lot of young prospects to protect and they might want to do that instead of a veteran player.  There should be a Tierney "like" player available from some team who can't/won't protect them in expansion.  There will also be a ton of D available.  Foote is probably a goner in Tampa for example.

I would actually probably add a priority before moving cap.

1a.  Replace Benning or hire a President above him to give the marching orders and approve any moves.  I have long considered Larionov a perfect President in the NHL.  Hockey legend with Canucks ties who would garner instant respect and be immediately a part of the "new" old boys club of guys like Shanahan, Sakic, Yzerman, Hextall, etc.
Realistically we are probably better waiting until after the season when other GMs are fired to find a Benning replacement, having a new President holding the reins might be the best we can hope for.

Edited by Provost
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The problem I have is not knowing the players around the league as well as I know our own Canucks

So, I have to stat watch to some degree..........I wonder about these 3 centers for our 3rd line

 

Tierney's name does come up a lot

Wennberg in Florida look like he may be a player

Laughton in Philadelphia looks to be under utilized 

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I would prioritize buying out Eriksson in the off=season for $2M in savings for next year.

 

I would agree to trying to trade the players you have listed but only if we could do so without salary retention for the players not on expiring contracts. Hamonic has a NTC and unlikely to waive it so I think you can drop him off the list. I would focus on trading Sutter, Pearson and Benn at this point.

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42 minutes ago, Provost said:

The picks is really just the return for the clearing cap space to not take on other bad contracts... it doesn't matter that much if they are 2nd or 6th rounders, you are right the priority is clearing the cap space by moving the rentals.  The only use I see for the picks (aside from being lottery tickets) is that they will be the currency teams will want back in return for players they can't protect in expansion.  They won't want another expansion eligible player back as that doesn't do them any good.  Only guys who are exempt and picks will be what is traded.  If we have half a dozen 3rd-5th round picks going into that market, as well as spare cap space, we are in a really good spot.

thats a good point, the picks could be used as currency for an expansion related acquisition.

 

I do wonder if we can use the Canadian division to our advantage a little bit here. If Pearson and Sutter in particular are shopped, I can see Edmonton e.g. being very interested in Sutter at 1/2 retained (which they can do with their current LTIR). He'd really solidify that bottom 6 imo and they may not want to see him go to Winnipeg e.g. 

 

650 was saying AZ might have interest in Pearson. 

 

Quote


Ottawa doesn't "have" to expose Tierney... who knows what they choose to do though, they have a lot of young prospects to protect and they might want to do that instead of a veteran player.  There should be a Tierney "like" player available from some team who can't/won't protect them in expansion.  There will also be a ton of D available.  Foote is probably a goner in Tampa for example.

Foote would be a great pickup. 3C is the biggest need imo, so yeah lets hope someone has to lose one. Gaudette isn't going to be that guy. 

 

Quote


I would actually probably add a priority before moving cap.

1a.  Replace Benning or hire a President above him to give the marching orders and approve any moves.  I have long considered Larionov a perfect President in the NHL.  Hockey legend with Canucks ties who would garner instant respect and be immediately a part of the "new" old boys club of guys like Shanahan, Sakic, Yzerman, Hextall, etc.
Realistically we are probably better waiting until after the season when other GMs are fired to find a Benning replacement, having a new President holding the reins might be the best we can hope for.

I floated the idea of a new president of hockey ops a while ago, as its about the only position you could begin via Skype for 2 weeks and still be useful. 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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41 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

The problem I have is not knowing the players around the league as well as I know our own Canucks

So, I have to stat watch to some degree..........I wonder about these 3 centers for our 3rd line

 

Tierney's name does come up a lot

Wennberg in Florida look like he may be a player

Laughton in Philadelphia looks to be under utilized 

all decent choices for us going forward. 

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

Now that we can pretty much put a pin on this season, what are the moves we can make to set us up for expansion, the offseason, and future seasons.

 

1.  Obviously trade all the expiring contracts for picks.  Any or even all of the guys you can unload from the list of:Pearson, Sutter, Benn, Hamonic, Baertschi, Roussel, Beagle.  Do it fast to let us eat as much of the ELC bonuses this year as possible and not push them.

2.  Trade Virtanen+ (Gaudette?) to Buffalo for Borgen. They can’t protect him and their season is pretty much done too.

3.  Sign Connor Murphy and Tryamkin in the offseason.

4.  Find a 3C exposed in expansion using  the draft picks we acquire from our rentals this season.  A guy like Tierney if he is available because Ottawa decides to protect all younger cheaper players.

 

A defence next year with some size and mobility, but also cheap enough to be realistic with our cap situation.

 

Hughes-Murphy

Borgen-Schmidt

Juolevi-Myers

Tryamkin

 

 

How do you win games without Sutter, Beagle, Pearson and Roussel? Who replaces them?

In hockey you need people to play PK. You also need to roll 4 lines or you lose. Green is already playing mostly 2 lines with rotating d partners for Hughes

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21 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats a good point, the picks could be used as currency for an expansion related acquisition.

The unknown to me is what is going to happen with the draft this year.  There is a decent chance it doesn't happen even remotely normally.

Teams will know the top prospects pretty well, but with the minors not really playing for their last 1 1/2 years, anything in the 3rd round and lower would just be throwing at a dart board for guys you may have never seen play enough.  It isn't impossible that they only run the first couple rounds this year and do two sets of the later rounds next offseason when they could be meaingful.. there has even been talk of postponing the whole thing and doing two drafts.. but I don't see the league losing out that press entirely.

Depending on the state of the internal talks amongst the BOG... mid round draft picks could have much lower value right now since they are going to be really random due to lack of scouting or might not even happen until down the road.  We might be able to collect more, and more easily due to this.  I still think they will be the currency at expansion because there really isn't anything else teams can take back.

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2 minutes ago, Provost said:

The unknown to me is what is going to happen with the draft this year.  There is a decent chance it doesn't happen even remotely normally.

Teams will know the top prospects pretty well, but with the minors not really playing for their last 1 1/2 years, anything in the 3rd round and lower would just be throwing at a dart board for guys you may have never seen play enough.  It isn't impossible that they only run the first couple rounds this year and do two sets of the later rounds next offseason when they could be meaingful.. there has even been talk of postponing the whole thing and doing two drafts.. but I don't see the league losing out that press entirely.

Depending on the state of the internal talks amongst the BOG... mid round draft picks could have much lower value right now since they are going to be really random due to lack of scouting or might not even happen until down the road.  We might be able to collect more, and more easily due to this.  I still think they will be the currency at expansion because there really isn't anything else teams can take back.

yup its all a huge guess. Sucks for Seattle (no sympathy here tho).

 

I don't know, there's a lot of good ideas floating around from new management, coaching, trades, etc. What worries me a bit is Jim does nothing in any area, thats not acceptable at this point. 

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11 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

How do you win games without Sutter, Beagle, Pearson and Roussel? Who replaces them?

In hockey you need people to play PK. You also need to roll 4 lines or you lose. Green is already playing mostly 2 lines with rotating d partners for Hughes

Ummmm... good question.  On the other hand, we can't win games WITH them as has been pretty clearly shown so it is an entirely moot point. You are comparing a non existent baseline to your logic.  We have won 2 of our last 12 games.  Prior to Sutter scoring a couple games ago, our bottom 6 was outscored 9-0 in the previous bunch of games... they aren't helping us win, just maybe helping us lose by slightly less.

The decision is, do we want to lose games while being at the cap and adversely affecting our roster next year due to ELC bonuses... or do we want to lose slightly more games with a ton of cap flexibility to make moves, gain almost $5 million in cap space next season, and acquire a boatload of mid round draft picks.

With the actual reality of our situation, we can play young guys, waiver wire pick ups, and cast offs from other teams for the remaining 20-25 games of the season once we can actually move out enough of our rentals to create holes.

Miller-Petterson-Boeser
Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin
Motte-Graovac-Eriksson
Baertschi-MacEwan-Bailey
Michaelis

... that looks like a forward group that can win 2 out of 12 games to me!  (and that assumes we can get rid of every single player we could, including Virtanen and Gaudette without taking a single player back)

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2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ummmm... good question.  On the other hand, we can't win games WITH them as has been pretty clearly shown so it is an entirely moot point. You are comparing a non existent baseline to your logic.  We have won 2 of our last 12 games.  Prior to Sutter scoring a couple games ago, our bottom 6 was outscored 9-0 in the previous bunch of games... they aren't helping us win, just maybe helping us lose by slightly less.

The decision is, do we want to lose games while being at the cap and adversely affecting our roster next year due to ELC bonuses... or do we want to lose slightly more games with a ton of cap flexibility to make moves, gain almost $5 million in cap space next season, and acquire a boatload of mid round draft picks.

With the actual reality of our situation, we can play young guys, waiver wire pick ups, and cast offs from other teams for the remaining 20-25 games of the season once we can actually move out enough of our rentals to create holes.

Actually I kinda pointed to the point that Green over plays our top 2 lines and sometimes plays the 3rd line and in need plays the 4th and we are not winning games. A slight difference but you know the express of potatoes...

 

Secondly, Green has constantly ruined chemistry this year with changing lines that are working well like MAC - Sutter - JV - Sutter scored 4 goals in the first two games then JV got benched and Sutter has gone back to mediocre. Also, a lack of change leading to a continued blah PP which is again Overplayed. Again, his two line system is not winning games.

 

Thirdly, getting rid of all those players for picks and hopes and dreams takes us back years. So, why not trade everyone, get rid of management Benning down and just start the rebuild again as that is what you are asking.

 

Fourth, the bottom 6 have ONLY been scored on 9-0 but what has the top two been for those games. JT Miller has been terrible. How many short handed goals against the PP1 because of the lazy passes. The list goes on and on. Remember if you are calling out the bottom 6 then call out the top 6. Bottom 6 have been trying to keep games respectable.

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1 hour ago, FaninMex said:

 

Thirdly, getting rid of all those players for picks and hopes and dreams takes us back years. So, why not trade everyone, get rid of management Benning down and just start the rebuild again as that is what you are asking.

 

Getting rid of those players doesn't put us back at all.  Half of them are on expiring contracts anyways, and the other are a year away from being UFAs.

The expansion draft and another UFA market with no money in the system would provide ample opportunities to replace those players with better and/or cheaper players.  We would likely be in a better position next season when it counts.  As it stands with all those players and the need to pay big raises for Petterson, Hughes, and Demko, as well as covering the $4.7 million in pushed ELCs... we would be taking a giant step backward because we would have to lose even more depth than we did this past offseason.

 

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1) Trade Edler, Pearson, Sutter, and Benn at the deadline for picks if feasible, and if we are far out of playoff contention at that time.

2) Sign Adam Larsson on the 1st day of UFA

3) Extend Pettersson and Hughes

4) Sign Tryamkin

5) A 2nd round pick as a sweetener to move Eriksson after July 1st (a.k.a. "The Marc Staal deal.")

6) Let go of Green and hire Gerard Gallant

 

5) Stay the course.   I know it's tough for many fans to digest right now, but this team is still being built for its *real* window of opportunity (the 2022-2023 season......any if you don't believe me, take a look at all of the 'bad-transitional' contracts that will be off the books prior to October 1st 2022......it was designed this way for a reason).

 

The Canucks biggest needs are:

 

1) A top pairing stay-at-home defensemen that can still move the puck reasonably well (i.e. a modern day version of a stay-at-home dman).  Adam Larsson. 

2) A new 3rd line center that can take defensive responsibilities off of Horvat AND be good enough to bring out the offensive skills of his linemates.  Sutter, Gaudette, and Beagle cannot do this and likely never will be able to.  [Open to suggestions]

 

2021-2022:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Roussel-#####-Virtanen (Keep JV.  Lets see how JV performs under a new coach and in a post-covid "back to clubbing and enjoying life" world)

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Gaudette (Gaudette replaces Beagle as the 4th line C a year later)

 

Hughes-Larsson

Tryamkin-Schmidt

Juolevi-Myers

 

Demko

Holtby

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Make trades with MTL.  They seem desperate to go deep in the playoffs.   And they have 2 x 2nd rd and 3 x 3rd rd picks next year.  They may want some depth scoring and depth D.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Provost said:

There will also be a ton of D available.  Foote is probably a goner in Tampa for example.

I think it's a good plan to target players that can't be protected, but I can see teams such as TBL protecting 8 skaters + 1 goalie, to keep their top 4 Dmen. For example, TBL may protect: Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak, Foote, Stamkos, Point, Cirelli, Palat, Vasilevskiy

 

This leaves a player like McDonagh exposed, but also forwards such as Gourde, Killorn, Volkov. TBL will know they are losing one of these guys to Seattle, so for example, they are not going to give McDonagh away for a 4th pick just to lose Gourde to Seattle instead (i.e. they lose two players and only net a 4th rounder). I don't see teams doing this, they will be a bit smarter imo.

 

Same goes for Colorado, Minnesota and Carolina, all more likely to protect 8 skaters in order to not lose their top 4 Dmen.

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10 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

1) Trade Edler, Pearson, Sutter, and Benn at the deadline for picks if feasible, and if we are far out of playoff contention at that time.

2) Sign Adam Larsson on the 1st day of UFA

3) Extend Pettersson and Hughes

4) Sign Tryamkin

5) A 2nd round pick as a sweetener to move Eriksson after July 1st (a.k.a. "The Marc Staal deal.")

6) Let go of Green and hire Gerard Gallant

 

5) Stay the course.   I know it's tough for many fans to digest right now, but this team is still being built for its *real* window of opportunity (the 2022-2023 season......any if you don't believe me, take a look at all of the 'bad-transitional' contracts that will be off the books prior to October 1st 2022......it was designed this way for a reason).

 

The Canucks biggest needs are:

 

1) A top pairing stay-at-home defensemen that can still move the puck reasonably well (i.e. a modern day version of a stay-at-home dman).  Adam Larsson. 

2) A new 3rd line center that can take defensive responsibilities off of Horvat AND be good enough to bring out the offensive skills of his linemates.  Sutter, Gaudette, and Beagle cannot do this and likely never will be able to.  [Open to suggestions]

 

2021-2022:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Roussel-#####-Virtanen (Keep JV.  Lets see how JV performs under a new coach and in a post-covid "back to clubbing and enjoying life" world)

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Gaudette (Gaudette replaces Beagle as the 4th line C a year later)

 

Hughes-Larsson

Tryamkin-Schmidt

Juolevi-Myers

 

Demko

Holtby

I mostly agree with your post. The biggest thing that worries me right now are that the poor performances this season are coming from the young core and top 6 guys that we intend to keep. It makes sense to move Sutter, Pearson, Benn (not Edler as he has NMC, is a total beast and we should resign him for another year) but these guys are actually playing really well. They are overpaid but they are NOT the problem this season. The team you list for next season has many players that are just not performing right now.

 

The 3C position is interesting. I would love to see Lowry as the target for this. He is solid offensively and defensively, plays the PK, is big and not afraid to throw with the big boys if needed: Adam Lowry vs Ryan Reaves Nov 2, 2019 - YouTube

 

Honestly Virtanen has underperformed for long enough with enough coaches to know what we have. He is a floater, he needs to be moved so we can use that cap and spot for a decent player.

 

Gaudette is a different story. He has played less than half the NHL games JV has played. He puts in lots of effort and determination. Not sure if Gaudette is suitable as 3C or 4C but it doesn't make sense to move him now, as his value is so low. May as well resign him for $1m x 2 years and hold onto him (even as a versatile 13th forward for now) and see if he can develop his way into an impact player, perhaps wing or 4C.

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