[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Edmonton Oilers | February 25, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SN

[CanucksJay]

16 hours ago, canuktravella said:

 lindros was a machine   virtanen hit guys like that in junior and the brutal coaches on canucks killed that part of his game i dont even care if jake gets another goal id just like to see him hit someone flat out 

Strangest thing. Virtanen hit way harder as a rookie. Some hits were questionable or even dirty. 

Now he's completely the opposite... 

[CanucksJay]

19 hours ago, mll said:

The interests of Green and the team might not necessarily align.  Right now they are not winning but also not really developing many of the young players.

 

With the playoffs now pretty much out of reach the team should probably focus on developing their young players.  Green is without a contract for next season and his focus might be more to win games.  Juolevi was scratched and both Benn and Hamonic are upcoming UFAs.  During the off-season Benning talked of using Gaudette on the PK - if Green is looking to win games that’s unlikely to happen.

Gaudette needs to win puck battles and come out with possession to pk. 

The fact that I have more confidence in Hoglander than AG to win a board battle makes me question whether AG is ready to PK 

[canuck2288]

Its official 

 

the Canucks under “coach” Green are softer than butter 

 

 

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, tas said:

the end of bobby orr's career and the beginning of pavel bure's career were separated by almost 15 years. 

Well at some point, unfortunately, 15 years doesn't seem so long lol.   I could shoe horn Lafontaine and Tim Kerr into other great players with shortened careers, Kerr for sure was working his way into the HHOF but his shoulder blew out, another massive player with awesome hands (like Lindros)... Mario in a way too given how many years he was around and how many games he actually ended up playing,  remarkable where both those two guys (Mario and Orr), are in the leaderboards in different catagories compared to games played. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by IBatch

[canuck2288]

I am as frustrated with Jake as everyone but i really do think we should wait and see what he can become with real nhl coaches 

 

to this point all he has had is ahl coaching 

 

next year could be a turnaround year under Gallant 

[Gawdzukes]

32 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Its official 

 

the Canucks under “coach” Green are softer than butter 

 

 

I can't remember. Are you for or against Green?

[NHTyrany]

Embrace the Tank.

 

The losses moving forward will feel better with more rookies and less dead wood on the roster. I embrace the tank and look forward to drafting a big D in the first round. Green needs to do the same thing and start developing and testing talent for next year. Consider spelling off our young stars as well, they all seem tired and throw in more muscle to create a tougher identity. I will still watch if Green rotates 2 of our top 6 every game with muscle. In fact, it would make the losses more entertaining.

 

GCG

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This might be one of the most purely talented teams in Canucks history. We’ve never had a legit #1 and #2 C along with a legit #1 D and also a 30 goal winger all in the team at the same time. Not even the 1994, 2003 or 2011 teams had all these players. 
 

Our problem right now isn’t the top end of the roster, which is the hardest part to accumulate as you basically have to acquire top end players through the draft. Our problem is the bottom 6 forwards and big aggressive defensive Dmen who can support Hughes, Schmidt and Juolevi. We even have a young #1 goalie. 
 

This team needs some roster tweaks and a new coaching staff who can get the best out of our top talent. A legit 3C, a partner for Hughes and another solid Dman and winger will go a long way to make us a legit playoff team. 

All i will say is this the first time since the early 90's, and maybe the second or third time overall (we also had some great young talent thanks to Milford in the late 70's early 80's, some went to the final)... that we've had this many young players all at once.   Linden and Bure stepped in and made huge impacts right away,  Ronning was only 24 or so when we got him, an ace and part of one of our better lines before Bure came and Linden switched to center .. and Nedved despite the stupid contract dispute at least gave us tipping point important pieces for our 94 run...considered good enough to get a 1000 game player in Hedican, and Brown who was for sure a top pairing D back then.  

 

And i've made the comparisons before too.   3 Calder finalists, Hoglander, Demko, OJ, AG, JV.... one thing can be said, once Edler is gone - and aside from Quins era (eventually), this entire team will be 100% JBs.   And mostly JBs for at least another decade no matter who's running it.   That's only happened one other time in our history too. 
 

I also agree - no secondary scoring (bottom six) and not having a defenseman that can help QHs pairing keep the pucks out of the net, a third line C and one more blue chip winger is exactly what this team needs... and Demko to become a top ten goalie.   It's quite a lot - but for sure three of these five things are already in the works, and once cap clears up the other two can be worked on during our window ... it's possible this will take next season as well to overcome.  

 

It's a mess this year ... everything happens for a reason some could say - and adding blue chip D or C would do wonders for our cores future.   And we can't really afford much more anyways cap wise - Horvat, BB, OJ, EP, QHs, Podz/Hoglander, Demko? plus? plus?  That's a maxed out core right there as far as bodies go.  CHI had 6-7:  Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook, Keith, Crawford, and haven't come close since Toews and Kane got their third deal... I think long bridge deals might be the wisest move as far as extending our cores window the  longest.   

 

Edit:  Also like to say that the team we have now, won't look anything like the one we will have in two years supporting cast wise.   Hopefully our prospect pool can help with that, if this team keeps adding one or two rookies that earn roster spots - we will be in very fine shape for the duration cap wise.   JB or any GM needs to sharpen the heck out of their pencils for the second contract phase of this rebuild...Podz comes in and makes an impact ... well not like Kakko is doing much lol... or Lafrenniere...we are getting spoiled right now ... 

Edited February 27, 2021 by IBatch

[Chris12345]

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This might be one of the most purely talented teams in Canucks history. We’ve never had a legit #1 and #2 C along with a legit #1 D and also a 30 goal winger all in the team at the same time. Not even the 1994, 2003 or 2011 teams had all these players. 
 

Our problem right now isn’t the top end of the roster, which is the hardest part to accumulate as you basically have to acquire top end players through the draft. Our problem is the bottom 6 forwards and big aggressive defensive Dmen who can support Hughes, Schmidt and Juolevi. We even have a young #1 goalie. 
 

This team needs some roster tweaks and a new coaching staff who can get the best out of our top talent. A legit 3C, a partner for Hughes and another solid Dman and winger will go a long way to make us a legit playoff team. 

I don't agree. I think the fan base overrates our players. 

 

2011 team had a lot of sneaky skill and more importantly stability and consistency.

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

Canucks hockey = Brutes

[48MPHSlapShot]

49 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Its official 

 

the Canucks under “coach” Green are softer than butter 

 

 

and their development is slower then molasses on a frigid day.  Soft and slow; Not a mix for success..  The Travis interviews tell all...

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

We need Sharks and fricking lazer beams.

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

I don't agree. I think the fan base overrates our players. 

 

2011 team had a lot of sneaky skill and more importantly stability and consistency.

 

 

It's not about comparing 2011 or any other team at their peak though is it.   Point is look around the league and how well our picks have done compared to their peer group.  BB was not a high pick, but should have been.   EP arguably should have gone first,  QHs should have been going up against Dahlin for who should go number one.   J Hughes ... Kakko... Lafrenniere etc... Nolan Patrick ... really only Hirschier has done a decent job of where he was picked since maybe Austin Mathews right?   Yes our guys were developed which counts too.    JB picks haven't followed the script, have they?   Mostly for the good - yes also for the bad - but OJ coming in and earning a roster spot with his play... and Puljaljarvi right now in EDM as well.   We have one of the best and most talented young cores in the league right now - it for sure is something to be excited about.   THN ranked us third best two years in a row 21 and under ... add BB and Horvat.. Motte ... JV ... AG... a lot of uncertainty still but overall excellent.   Out of 31 soon to be 32 teams.   Why we should be excited about this - is almost every time that means in 3-5 years teams with the best 21 and unders, become a force. 

 

WNP, TO, CAR are recent ones ... all three of those teams are good are they not?   WNP got boned - looked like contenders and lost their entire r side.   And still are managing fine.   CAR... to me is our closest comp at the moment.   As far as young talent goes.   They are going places.   TO ... top heavy for sure. And have been a very good regular season team for several years now ...

 

Canucks played 17 playoff games.   That also is reason for optimism, because it was the core carrying the mail.    Horvat with ten goals ... QHs passing Brown for team lead all-time in points etc.   I don't think i've ever read anywhere on this site that we are the best young group out there ... but saying we are one of the best is actually and factually accurate. 

 

Edit:  As far as the 2011 team - only the 94 team could give them a run for their money in a playoff situation, and i'd say if it was past round one win every time (94 team).   It's not fair to compare our current roster to the 2011 one, it was a veteran in their prime roster for the most part, aside from Edler and Tanev who was just getting his feet wet.   The Sedins have told the media how they almost quit the NHL... and who could blame them the way they were treated by the fan base and the media "the sisters" good grief.   Shame.  A lot of shame.  

 

That said they took years to develop.   And played at the end of the dead puck era at the start ... EP and QHs back then?  Murdered for sure absolutely murdered without a Brashear on the ice all the time.   Point is how well in this era, how well our young guys have played.    EP and QHs now get the most attention from the best in the world ... every single game, and are killing it compared to any other picks we've ever had in our entire history at that age with the exception of Linden and Bure (on the scoreboard that is)... now that EP is in his third year - have to add Nedved.   He scored 38 goals his third season.   

Edited February 27, 2021 by IBatch

[GetFocht]

Jim Benning is great at drafting and scouting young talent. 

 

Travis Green is a great assistant coach someday. 

 

The Canucks are talented and poorly coached. 

 

The players are now squeezing their sticks to death from the 11 minute mark of the 2nd until the end of game. 

 

No one is being held accountable. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

...nevermind.  I read your post wrong,  Sorry.

Edited February 27, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[GritGrinder]

26 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's not about comparing 2011 or any other team at their peak though is it.   Point is look around the league and how well our picks have done compared to their peer group.  BB was not a high pick, but should have been.   EP arguably should have gone first,  QHs should have been going up against Dahlin for who should go number one.   J Hughes ... Kakko... Lafrenniere etc... Nolan Patrick ... really only Hirschier has done a decent job of where he was picked since maybe Austin Mathews right?   Yes our guys were developed which counts too.    JB picks haven't followed the script, have they?   Mostly for the good - yes also for the bad - but OJ coming in and earning a roster spot with his play... and Puljaljarvi right now in EDM as well.   We have one of the best and most talented young cores in the league right now - it for sure is something to be excited about.   THN ranked us third best two years in a row 21 and under ... add BB and Horvat.. Motte ... JV ... AG... a lot of uncertainty still but overall excellent.   Out of 31 soon to be 32 teams.   Why we should be excited about this - is almost every time that means in 3-5 years teams with the best 21 and unders, become a force. 

 

WNP, TO, CAR are recent ones ... all three of those teams are good are they not?   WNP got boned - looked like contenders and lost their entire r side.   And still are managing fine.   CAR... to me is our closest comp at the moment.   As far as young talent goes.   They are going places.   TO ... top heavy for sure. And have been a very good regular season team for several years now ...

 

Canucks played 17 playoff games.   That also is reason for optimism, because it was the core carrying the mail.    Horvat with ten goals ... QHs passing Brown for team lead all-time in points etc.   I don't think i've ever read anywhere on this site that we are the best young group out there ... but saying we are one of the best is actually and factually accurate. 

 

Edit:  As far as the 2011 team - only the 94 team could give them a run for their money in a playoff situation, and i'd say if it was past round one win every time (94 team).   It's not fair to compare our current roster to the 2011 one, it was a veteran in their prime roster for the most part, aside from Edler and Tanev who was just getting his feet wet.   The Sedins have told the media how they almost quit the NHL... and who could blame them the way they were treated by the fan base and the media "the sisters" good grief.   Shame.  A lot of shame.  

 

That said they took years to develop.   And played at the end of the dead puck era at the start ... EP and QHs back then?  Murdered for sure absolutely murdered without a Brashear on the ice all the time.   Point is how well in this era, how well our young guys have played.    EP and QHs now get the most attention from the best in the world ... every single game, and are killing it compared to any other picks we've ever had in our entire history at that age with the exception of Linden and Bure (on the scoreboard that is)... now that EP is in his third year - have to add Nedved.   He scored 38 goals his third season.   

I agree with most except for the Carolina comparison. 7 of their 8 D right now are all 27 and under and all bring different skill sets. Maybe the forward groups of the 2 teams are a bit similar but the Canucks D has 5 guys 29 or older and only a couple of the young ones have really shown much yet. If the Canucks had anywhere close to that blueline corps right now they would be in a much better position.

 

Also if the current core of the Canucks is 3-5 years from contending then who will be the d corps..? Only Quinn and OJ are likely to be here 3-4 years from now. The Canucks need a few more dmen to graduate successfully to the NHL in the next few years.

Edited February 27, 2021 by GritGrinder

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

The Canucks in the 6 seasons prior to the 2011 Cup run the worst record they had was 39-33-10 for 88pts. That team was never anywhere near the bottom of the league like the current Canucks have been in recent years. To look at the current team, where most people want half the team gone, and say “they are 2-3 years away” is wishful thinking. Maybe if the current team can string together 4-5 winning seasons and making the playoffs a few times then you can say they are 2-3 years away from Cup contention. I doubt people were looking at the 2004 Canucks and saying “they are 2-3 years away”, but they were saying it in 2009. Honestly the current Canucks were 6-9 years away from Cup contention when EP was a rookie. 2-3 years of making the playoffs or getting close, 2-3 years of winning a round or 2 and 2-3 years of hopefully Cup runs. They are half way through year 3 of that 6-9 year window. The bubble artificially made it seem like they were further along but I still see 4-7 years before the current team makes the playoffs consistently and maybe goes on a Cup run.

 

 

 

 

The difference with those teams is their rookies didn't come in and make an impact like any team but the early 90's teams did.   Which gives one hope that we have a real window once the placeholders are gone, a few big holes are plugged either from our existing pool or UFAs, and the team can make a run during EP and QHs second contracts.   It's a possibility for sure just based on cap teams so far historically (only CHI won a cup with their new guys carrying the mail - last year Toews ELC) that this team can do some serious damage in 2-3 years.   The team needs more reps in the playoffs for sure to get there.   Comparing us to 2011 is ok too.   But the difference between those team is this one's young players - are years ahead of where those players were at the same age.    
 

Take the Sedins for example.   They never had a better playoffs, even in 2011, as far as production goes, then they did in the regular season.   Only core guys on that team that stepped it up was Kesler and Bieksa - that's it.  

 

The Linden teams had way more clutch guys throughout the lineup.   Or guys that stepped it up.  Linden, Courtnall, Adams, Babych, Ronning... it's a long list really.   Only 17 games so far for these kids.   All it took for QHs to become the leading D scorer come post season all-time, Horvat was going after the leading goal scorer - Bure lol - at 16. A one more series and for sure would have passed Linden at second place.

 

Nobody has a crystal ball.  Personally i think this team is debatable for playoff next season - give them 50/50.   The following one 80/20 and after that unless we have some terrible management - rebuild the rebuild situation and trade half our core - we should make a run of 5-7 playoff appearances.   Reps matter in this league.   Contenders?  Well there are only a half dozen at any time and for sure we could become one of them given how good our young players actually are.   

 

Edit:  Think about it for a minute.  Even if just AG and JV worked out as well as they did last year, and goaltending stole us 3-4 games (less then last year)  - where would we be right now this season?  Ahead of EDM is my guess.    This team is only a goal post here or there from winning more games as is...with 12 million sitting on the bench.

Edited February 27, 2021 by IBatch

[canuck2288]

56 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I can't remember. Are you for or against Green?

For 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dumping him

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

I agree with most except for the Carolina comparison. 7 of their 8 D right now are all 27 and under and all bring different skill sets. Maybe the forward groups of the 2 teams are a bit similar but the Canucks D has 5 guys 29 or older and only a couple of the young ones have really shown much yet. If the Canucks had anywhere close to that blueline corps right now they would be in a much better position.

 

Also if the current core of the Canucks is 3-5 years from contending then who will be the d corps..? Only Quinn and OJ are likely to be here 3-4 years from now. The Canucks need a few more dmen to graduate successfully to the NHL in the next few years.

Yes for sure their D is better.    OJ had a Slavin vibe too him ... so hopefully that works out.    We need another blue chip D coming up in the pipe - and a long term Horvat replacement ... this is another Dahlin/QHs/Dobson/Bouchard/Boqvist like draft and hope we strike gold - we need that more... 

[canuck2288]

Third worst start in the history of the team

 

both previous bad starts had the coaches removed by this point

 

No clue why aqua and JB are waiting