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[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Edmonton Oilers | February 25, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SN

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45 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The difference with those teams is their rookies didn't come in and make an impact like any team but the early 90's teams did.   Which gives one hope that we have a real window once the placeholders are gone, a few big holes are plugged either from our existing pool or UFAs, and the team can make a run during EP and QHs second contracts.   It's a possibility for sure just based on cap teams so far historically (only CHI won a cup with their new guys carrying the mail - last year Toews ELC) that this team can do some serious damage in 2-3 years.   The team needs more reps in the playoffs for sure to get there.   Comparing us to 2011 is ok too.   But the difference between those team is this one's young players - are years ahead of where those players were at the same age.    
 

Take the Sedins for example.   They never had a better playoffs, even in 2011, as far as production goes, then they did in the regular season.   Only core guys on that team that stepped it up was Kesler and Bieksa - that's it.  

 

The Linden teams had way more clutch guys throughout the lineup.   Or guys that stepped it up.  Linden, Courtnall, Adams, Babych, Ronning... it's a long list really.   Only 17 games so far for these kids.   All it took for QHs to become the leading D scorer come post season all-time, Horvat was going after the leading goal scorer - Bure lol - at 16. A one more series and for sure would have passed Linden at second place.

 

Nobody has a crystal ball.  Personally i think this team is debatable for playoff next season - give them 50/50.   The following one 80/20 and after that unless we have some terrible management - rebuild the rebuild situation and trade half our core - we should make a run of 5-7 playoff appearances.   Reps matter in this league.   Contenders?  Well there are only a half dozen at any time and for sure we could become one of them given how good our young players actually are.   

 

Edit:  Think about it for a minute.  Even if just AG and JB worked out as well as they did last year, and goaltending stole us 3-4 games (less then last year)  - where would we be right now this season?  Ahead of EDM is my guess.    This team is only a goal post here or there from winning more games as is...with 12 million sitting on the bench.

I dunno man... going from one of the worst teams in the league to doing “serious damage” in 2-3 years is still pretty rare. Those Hawks teams sucked but as soon as they got Kane, Toews et al the rise was meteoric. The Canucks have their equivalent players now and are at the bottom of the league. People like to point to the Avs as a comparison but look at them,Landeskog is in year 10, MacKinnon 8, Rantanen 6 and they honestly haven’t been close to making a run yet and are a bit shaky this season. 

 

Also those “placeholders” you mention are basically half the team and have roughly 4000 games of NHL experience so changing that many players and replacing them with prospects and FA’s in a 1-2 year period can have an adverse affect on team chemistry, leadership  and confidence etc. The chemistry seems to have been affected by removing 3-4 vets this season, removing 8-10 over the next 1-2 seasons could have a similar result.

 

But like you said, nobody has a crystal ball.

 

Edited by GritGrinder
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1 hour ago, canuck2288 said:

I am as frustrated with Jake as everyone but i really do think we should wait and see what he can become with real nhl coaches 

 

to this point all he has had is ahl coaching 

 

next year could be a turnaround year under Gallant 

Might as well.  His stock is at an all time low.  At this point, he's just a throw in.

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52 minutes ago, GetFocht said:

Jim Benning is great at drafting and scouting young talent. 

 

Travis Green is a great assistant coach someday. 

 

The Canucks are talented and poorly coached. 

 

The players are now squeezing their sticks to death from the 11 minute mark of the 2nd until the end of game. 

 

No one is being held accountable. 

I was thinking about the same yesterday.....Benning as Head of Scouting and Green as Director of Player Development 

those would have been more fitting positions for them.  
I like Green, but if he is fired, I will be more thrilled about getting rid of Brown and Baum.

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7 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

First, many former players, and especially a guy like Bieksa have all said Green is not a problem.

 

 

Second, strongly disagree that Green doesn't push his players, accepts status quo.  This type of statement is totally in left field.  Keep in mind the guy had to grind his ass off and adapt to become a long time NHL player.  The guy knows what it takes to succeed and if u don't think he imparts that experience/wisdom when needed....

Lol, it doesn't matter if the players think Green is a swell guy. He's not there to be their friends. He's there for results.  Most bosses are hard asses and while their employees may not like them they do respect them. When Greens giving his guys a pat on the back after a 6-1 loss to MTL  and telling them how well they played it isn't helping anyone. 

 

Secondly, when you hear Green say from the podium night after night that the team played well but just didn't get the bounces how can you conclude anything other than that he's satisfied with the status quo? All his public statements say exactly that.  

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1 hour ago, GetFocht said:

Jim Benning is great at drafting and scouting young talent. 

 

Travis Green is a great assistant coach someday. 

 

The Canucks are talented and poorly coached. 

 

The players are now squeezing their sticks to death from the 11 minute mark of the 2nd until the end of game. 

 

No one is being held accountable. 

Not sure if Benning is great at drafting and scouting talent. Just watch Max Comtois (6.2, 207 lbs) putting up points with Anaheim in the NHL. Anaheim drafted him at #50 overall in the 2nd round in the draft 2017.  Canucks decided to go with Kole Lind (6.1, 179)  at #33 overall in the 2nd round. Lind still playing with the Utica Comets. Not sure if he will become an NHL regular. If he becomes an NHL regular I highly doubt that he will put up the points Comtois is putting up. Just look at Comtois' frame with 6.2 and 207 lbs compared to Lind's 6.1 and 179 lbs. Lind will get pushed around on the big stage whereas Comtois is winning puck battles along the boards. And yes, Jim is ultimately responsible for this pick as GM.

 

Will Lind (2nd round pick) , Gadjovich (2nd round pick) , Di Pietro (3rd round pick)  will become NHL regulars?

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15 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Not sure if Benning is great at drafting and scouting talent. Just watch Max Comtois (6.2, 207 lbs) putting up points with Anaheim in the NHL. Anaheim drafted him at #50 overall in the 2nd round in the draft 2017.  Canucks decided to go with Kole Lind (6.1, 179)  at #33 overall in the 2nd round. Lind still playing with the Utica Comets. Not sure if he will become an NHL regular. If he becomes an NHL regular I highly doubt that he will put up the points Comtois is putting up. Just look at Comtois' frame with 6.2 and 207 lbs compared to Lind's 6.1 and 179 lbs. Lind will get pushed around on the big stage whereas Comtois is winning puck battles along the boards. And yes, Jim is ultimately responsible for this pick as GM.

 

Will Lind (2nd round pick) , Gadjovich (2nd round pick) , Di Pietro (3rd round pick)  will become NHL regulars?

Lind is dominating the AHL and is now playing center. Gadjovich looked like a bust heading into this season but from all accounts has taken a major stride forward this season. The verdict is still out on DiPietro but I think he's going to at least be a 2/3 goalie at the very least. The kid can't help but win he's so impressive both as a goalie and a person. Hard to not believe he can become something of an NHL regular. 

 

I'm expecting DiPietro to eventually pass demko but will have to see. Demkos education is helping him navigate this tough terrain.

 

You can point to a number of players and say why not him. It's near impossible to predict what the ceiling of all these players will be. Character and quality of person is a big factor for Jim. If they work hard and have the right mentality it only ups the odds. Need the right locker room mix personality wise too when we peak. That character factor will play a big part in that.

Edited by Rush17
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It’s full scouting dempartment team at play , they debate and rate. Jimbo then looks at it all ,asks more questions to scouts, watches video to see for himself. In the end it’s Jimbo call , but Scouting staff needs to bring prospect to the table and make the case for draft consideration.

 

thats how I see it, but I’m not there and Jimbo stopped taking my calls.

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4 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

The Canucks in the 6 seasons prior to the 2011 Cup run the worst record they had was 39-33-10 for 88pts. That team was never anywhere near the bottom of the league like the current Canucks have been in recent years. To look at the current team, where most people want half the team gone, and say “they are 2-3 years away” is wishful thinking. Maybe if the current team can string together 4-5 winning seasons and making the playoffs a few times then you can say they are 2-3 years away from Cup contention. I doubt people were looking at the 2004 Canucks and saying “they are 2-3 years away”, but they were saying it in 2009. Honestly the current Canucks were 6-9 years away from Cup contention when EP was a rookie. 2-3 years of making the playoffs or getting close, 2-3 years of winning a round or 2 and 2-3 years of hopefully Cup runs. They are half way through year 3 of that 6-9 year window. The bubble artificially made it seem like they were further along but I still see 4-7 years before the current team makes the playoffs consistently and maybe goes on a Cup run.

 

 

 

 

All very true.

I don't think anyone expected us being this bad... And I don't think they are, but yes it's hard to see them being a contender in a few years time. Even with a high draft pick, a defender will be 4-5 years away from being a star.

However, although league tables don't lie, they don't always tell the entire truth either. Who knows, what's going on in the head of the players during these Corona lock down times... It's all very weird. Look at Miller? a shadow of last years player...

Also maybe the amount of games, which have been played may have taken its toll on the young players. It's easier to be a youngster, if you don't have to carry the team on your back. 

Regardless, my point was not so much, when we will contend, but more the age of the core players. They are still very young, and needs time to mature.

If the supporting acts had been better, or played to their potential, I don't think we would have been as bad as this... The addition of Toffoli made a huge difference, so who knows if another few additions could have the same impact.

 

Can I just add that the loss of Motte seems to have far more impact, than anyone could have expected. Just goes to show, how far desire and heart take a team... 

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8 minutes ago, HockeyHarry said:

It’s full scouting dempartment team at play , they debate and rate. Jimbo then looks at it all ,asks more questions to scouts, watches video to see for himself. In the end it’s Jimbo call , but Scouting staff needs to bring prospect to the table and make the case for draft consideration.

 

thats how I see it, but I’m not there and Jimbo stopped taking my calls.

I wouldn't take to much of the credit away. Despite all the supposed success for Judd Brackett it was Jim who overhauled the scouting department and all of its terminology and systems. He also gives instructions on qualities to look for and who fits the Canuck mold. So as much as one may wish to share the accolades of success we also can't discount Jim's influence on the scouting department and it's staff. On that note. Our scouts work their butts off and deserve a lot of credit because they have excelled in Jim's revamped scouting system. 

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4 hours ago, Silent Man said:

So, team have lost 10 out of the last 12, and team has no practice two days in a row? And no morning skate on the game day on Thursday? Obviously, our system is so perfect, that team does need to work on it anymore?

To be honest, maybe what they need more than anything after this crazy schedule is rest...

They've looked very tired the last few games... probably part of the reason they've thrown leads away time and time again...

 

Will be interesting to see if the rest will have done them good on Monday.

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1 hour ago, Rush17 said:

Lind is dominating the AHL and is now playing center. Gadjovich looked like a bust heading into this season but from all accounts has taken a major stride forward this season. The verdict is still out on DiPietro but I think he's going to at least be a 2/3 goalie at the very least. The kid can't help but win he's so impressive both as a goalie and a person. Hard to not believe he can become something of an NHL regular. 

 

I'm expecting DiPietro to eventually pass demko but will have to see. Demkos education is helping him navigate this tough terrain.

 

You can point to a number of players and say why not him. It's near impossible to predict what the ceiling of all these players will be. Character and quality of person is a big factor for Jim. If they work hard and have the right mentality it only ups the odds. Need the right locker room mix personality wise too when we peak. That character factor will play a big part in that.

In what way is Lind “dominating the AHL”..? 23 goals and 67pts in 124 games over parts of 4 seasons. He’s a decent player, but dominating the AHL..?

C’mon man.

 

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9 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

In what way is Lind “dominating the AHL”..? 23 goals and 67pts in 124 games over parts of 4 seasons. He’s a decent player, but dominating the AHL..?

C’mon man.

 

"Is" as in "presently".  

Not "has been" as in from the start.

 

This is from 10 days ago, but still:

Quote

(From SN)

Kole Lind is entering a pivotal year in his development. The 22-year-old former Kelowna Rockets standout was taken 33rd-overall by the Canucks in 2017 yet he hasn’t made his NHL debut. Lind is making the transition from winger to centre and that experiment is off to a tremendous start. In fact, Lind has an AHL-leading four goals through three games so far. Yes, he’s producing at an unsustainable rate right now, but it’s a promising sign he’s one step closer to NHL-ready. He’s slated to be a restricted free agent after this season so it’s a prove-it year for the Swift Current, Sask., native.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/seven-prospects-watch-canadian-ahl-affiliate-teams/

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

I dunno man... going from one of the worst teams in the league to doing “serious damage” in 2-3 years is still pretty rare. Those Hawks teams sucked but as soon as they got Kane, Toews et al the rise was meteoric. The Canucks have their equivalent players now and are at the bottom of the league. People like to point to the Avs as a comparison but look at them,Landeskog is in year 10, MacKinnon 8, Rantanen 6 and they honestly haven’t been close to making a run yet and are a bit shaky this season. 

 

Also those “placeholders” you mention are basically half the team and have roughly 4000 games of NHL experience so changing that many players and replacing them with prospects and FA’s in a 1-2 year period can have an adverse affect on team chemistry, leadership  and confidence etc. The chemistry seems to have been affected by removing 3-4 vets this season, removing 8-10 over the next 1-2 seasons could have a similar result.

 

But like you said, nobody has a crystal ball.

 

I dunno man....

 

Kane and Toews = back to back first round top 3 picks.  #1 & #3

 

Matters.

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2 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

I dunno man... going from one of the worst teams in the league to doing “serious damage” in 2-3 years is still pretty rare. Those Hawks teams sucked but as soon as they got Kane, Toews et al the rise was meteoric. The Canucks have their equivalent players now and are at the bottom of the league. People like to point to the Avs as a comparison but look at them,Landeskog is in year 10, MacKinnon 8, Rantanen 6 and they honestly haven’t been close to making a run yet and are a bit shaky this season. 

 

Also those “placeholders” you mention are basically half the team and have roughly 4000 games of NHL experience so changing that many players and replacing them with prospects and FA’s in a 1-2 year period can have an adverse affect on team chemistry, leadership  and confidence etc. The chemistry seems to have been affected by removing 3-4 vets this season, removing 8-10 over the next 1-2 seasons could have a similar result.

 

But like you said, nobody has a crystal ball.

 

I think too many people think of a teams development as a linear progression. In reality it is anything but.  There are so many variables.  Trades, injuries, and other setbacks.  The great thing about hockey is its unpredictability.  All the variables is what makes it exciting. 

No one expected STL to go from basement dweller to Cup winner a couple years ago yet that is what happened. No one expected the Pens to make it to the Finals 2 years into Sid's career but it happened. Having a good team on paper doesn't always equate to success nor does a mediocre team equate to failure.  Every team in the playoffs has an equal shot at it. 

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3 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

I dunno man... going from one of the worst teams in the league to doing “serious damage” in 2-3 years is still pretty rare. Those Hawks teams sucked but as soon as they got Kane, Toews et al the rise was meteoric. The Canucks have their equivalent players now and are at the bottom of the league. People like to point to the Avs as a comparison but look at them,Landeskog is in year 10, MacKinnon 8, Rantanen 6 and they honestly haven’t been close to making a run yet and are a bit shaky this season. 

Don't forget another *key* difference between that Hawks team and these Canucks.  The head coach.  I mean, look at the Panthers, who while they were a 1st round exit, still managed to make the post-season the first season under coach Q (after missing the playoffs for a number of years).  Look at their record THIS season.

 

Coach Q >>> Travis Green 

 

The Duke of Wellington: "I used to say of him (Napoleon) that his presence on the field made the difference of 40,000 men

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