[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Edmonton Oilers | February 25, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SN

[-DLC-]

 

Quote

The Canucks have their equivalent players now

The "equivalent players" needed to be addressed too because it's fantasy, not factual.

 

Our picks are all 5 and lower.  Brock was what....23rd?  To compare them as "equivalent" to #1 and #3 picks probably shows more in their favour than against them.  I love where this bar has been set and anything beneath is a bust.  Right.

 

Also more fantasy:

Quote

and are at the bottom of the league

 

 

Nope, we're not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sockeye]

24 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Don't forget another *key* difference between that Hawks team and these Canucks.  The head coach.  I mean, look at the Panthers, who while they were a 1st round exit, still managed to make the post-season the first season under coach Q (after missing the playoffs for a number of years).  Look at their record THIS season.

 

Coach Q >>> Travis Green 

 

The Duke of Wellington: "I used to say of him (Napoleon) that his presence on the field made the difference of 40,000 men

Good for Coach Q but he has a lot more to work with on that Florida team.

[Gurn]

3 hours ago, CptCanuck16 said:

Lol, it doesn't matter if the players think Green is a swell guy. He's not there to be their friends. He's there for results.  Most bosses are hard asses and while their employees may not like them they do respect them. When Greens giving his guys a pat on the back after a 6-1 loss to MTL  and telling them how well they played it isn't helping anyone. 

 

Secondly, when you hear Green say from the podium night after night that the team played well but just didn't get the bounces how can you conclude anything other than that he's satisfied with the status quo? All his public statements say exactly that.  

"Lol, it doesn't matter if the players think Green is a swell guy."

 

Nowhere in the post you quoted does it saying anything about how players feel about Green. Nowhere in that post does it say Green is supposed to be their friend.

Why argue things that were not said?

 

"Secondly, when you hear Green say from the podium night after night that the team played well but just didn't get the bounces how can you conclude anything other than that he's satisfied with the status quo? All his public statements say exactly that. "

 

I'm able to conclude that he is not satisfied by the status quo, because I realize people say different things to different people.. Also if he was satisfied with the status quo he'd be unemployed right now. No coach keeps a job if they are satisfied with the way things are going for this team.

 

Bet Green would look a lot better if players stopped giving away pucks at their blue line. Guarantee it is not in Greens playbook to do any of those giveaways.

 

[canuck2288]

Why would the players not love Green?

 

- never hold anyone accountable unless a select few

- favours his vets

- gives them 2 days off after 13 losses in 15 games 

- never admits his team stunk out the joint or requires improvement at all

- fosters a losing country club atmosphere 

 

of course they love him 

[garthsbutcher]

Seattle can have Green after we don’t protect him in the expansion draft

[steviewonder20]

42 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

The "equivalent players" needed to be addressed too because it's fantasy, not factual.

 

Our picks are all 5 and lower.  Brock was what....23rd?  To compare them as "equivalent" to #1 and #3 picks probably shows more in their favour than against them.  I love where this bar has been set and anything beneath is a bust.  Right.

 

Also more fantasy:

 

 

Nope, we're not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a bit misleading as we’ve played more games. Winning percentage is more accurate and there we are near the bottom (only two teams with a worse percentage):

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/standings/2020/league

[-DLC-]

I haven't chimed in too much because......well, it's too painful.  

 

I do this for fun and entertainment, not punishment or stress.  It's about keeping that in perspective in a grand scale of it all way.  I'm happy to have hockey back...even if some of it's been a let down.

 

I feel like many are looking for "an" answer when it's much more complex than that.  I feel like an "all of the above" likely covers the gamut and some focus on "one" thing when there's a combination of things not working right now.  And because we don't really know the behind the scenes of it all, it's hard to pinpoint from our vantage point.  We're all experts except...we're really not.

 

Remove X or Y and it may not solve the problem.   We've been handcuffed by Benning, our coaches have failed to be creative or address things as moving targets, the players have slumped and some have mailed in at least partial games, etc.  Plus, our gruelling schedule that some just completely overlook (although, some of it is warranted as these struggles have surfaced prior to this).

 

Things tends to snowball when they're bad...the clutching of the stick is often a result of tension and pressure to perform.   Things start being more forced and the natural flow and tendencies become "overthinking" and putting the team a step behind.

 

There's something bigger than this and it's likely....frustration.  This is how it upsets the balance when it sets in.

 

Have there been glaring issues that have been covered up by goaltending?  Yep.   But all teams will have to be 'saved' by their goaltenders at different periods of time.  It's how this game works.

 

I'm not opposed to getting rid of any of the coaching/management staff.  At all.  Change is often a reset and so I'm open to any of it.  I just don't know that it will have an immediate "add water and stir" result that some expect.  The age of instant gratification.  This is a young team learning how to win and lose.  The losing does something to the confidence and that can have a domino effect.  Especially under a glaring spotlight in this fishbowl market.  Imagine at work if you've been off and people stand over you, screaming for your job.  It's not a great motivator or recipe to succeed

 

Maybe initially canning someone will turn things around....sometimes change infuses a sense of hope and renews energy.  And you can build off that.  But it's not a given.  We always scream for someone's head .... how's that worked for us so far?  It gets tiring over time.  It's always someone's "fault" but maybe it's more of a combined thing and looking for a target in a bullseye way misses the mark.

 

I feel like patience is required in figuring this out - more so than reactionary moves that may or may not solve issues.

 

I've written off this year (even though I still hold hope - homer in me is stubborn) - but I'm ok with that.  "Accept the things I cannot change" is life saving for me at times.

 

Fix it - but take time and don't do knee jerk moves that put us even further in the hole in a long term way.  To appease the screaming masses.  Especially as it relates to the roster because their ideas count in all of this (see:  how they felt about losing pieces like Marky, Tanev, TT and Stecher).  The player's opinions matter (most of all).

 

Not much fun around here lately....a lot of frustration that also upsets this balance.  People have a right to be .... unhappy.  But that's a personal choice we all make and we don't have to take it out on others.  Even if they maintain a positive outlook...it's how some of us choose to do life, that's all.  We're no better or worse for it.  Prodding and poking at people is a vicious circle around here at times.

This is a whole lot of nothing in this post but I don't even care.  This is my team, I support them, the trolls are annoying as hell (which is not to say everyone who's throwing ideas out there is a troll....just those who get enjoyment out of seeing others reactions...especially during difficult times).  We're down right now...don't kick us.  I, for one, kick back and that's not cool either.

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

Its a bit misleading as we’ve played more games. Winning percentage is more accurate and there we are near the bottom (only two teams with a worse percentage):

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/standings/2020/league

Yep....so we had to come out of the gates in full GO mode and will get to rest a bit as they have to hit that wall.

 

Which is very much a "we'll see what happens" deal.   Weird season/schedule and heading down "the stretch" this year will take on a whole new meaning.  Teams that think it was tough before are going to have a whole new perspective on that.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[steviewonder20]

4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I haven't chimed in too much because......well, it's too painful.  

 

I do this for fun and entertainment, not punishment or stress.  It's about keeping that in perspective in a grand scale of it all way.  I'm happy to have hockey back...even if some of it's been a let down.

 

I feel like many are looking for "an" answer when it's much more complex than that.  I feel like an "all of the above" likely covers the gamut and some focus on "one" thing when there's a combination of things not working right now.  And because we don't really know the behind the scenes of it all, it's hard to pinpoint from our vantage point.  We're all experts except...we're really not.

 

Remove X or Y and it may not solve the problem.   We've been handcuffed by Benning, our coaches have failed to be creative or address things as moving targets, the players have slumped and some have mailed in at least partial games, etc.  Things tends to snowball when they're bad...the clutching of the stick is often a result of tension and pressure to perform.   Things start being more forced and the natural flow and tendencies become "overthinking" and putting the team a step behind.

 

There's something bigger than this and it's likely....frustration.  This is how it upsets the balance when it sets in.

 

Have there been glaring issues that have been covered up by goaltending?  Yep.   But all teams will have to be 'saved' by their goaltenders at different periods of time.  It's how this game works.

 

I'm not opposed to getting rid of any of the coaching/management staff.  At all.  Change is often a reset and so I'm open to any of it.  I just don't know that it will have an immediate "add water and stir" result that some feel it would.  This is a young team learning how to win and lose.  The losing does something to the confidence and that can have a domino effect.  Especially under a glaring spotlight in this fishbowl market.  Imagine at work if you've been off and people stand over you, screaming for your job.  It's not a great motivator or recipe to succeed

 

Maybe initially canning someone will turn things around....sometimes change infuses a sense of hope and renews energy.  And you can build off that.  But it's not a given.  We always scream for someone's head .... how's that worked for us so far?  It gets tiring over time.  It's always someone's "fault" but maybe it's not.

 

I feel like patience is required in figuring this out - more so than reactionary moves that may or may not solve issues.

 

I've written off this year (even though I still hold hope - homer in me is stubborn) - but I'm ok with that.  "Accept the things I cannot change" is life saving for me at times.

 

Fix it - but take time and don't do knee jerk moves that put us even further in the hole in a long term way.  To appease the screaming masses.  Especially as it relates to the roster because their ideas count in all of this (see:  how they felt about losing pieces like Marky, Tanev, TT and Stecher).  The player's opinions matter (most of all).

 

Not much fun around here lately....a lot of frustration that also upsets this balance.  People have a right to be .... unhappy.  But that's a personal choice we all make and we don't have to take it out on others.  Or prod and poke when we know they're down.  

This is a whole lot of nothing in this post but I don't even care.  This is my team, I support them, the trolls are annoying as hell (which is not to say everyone who's throwing ideas out there is a troll....just those who get enjoyment out seeing others reactions).  We're down right now...don't kick us.  I, for one, kick back.

Deb, you’ve made some good points. It is complex and the solution is not as easy as fire the coach. We’ve done that lots beginning with Vigneault (who was a coach of the year). In my post yesterday I was optimistic about our top six (when Podz arrives) and our #1 goalie, but our bottom six is full of bad contracts that end in one or two years. That will sort itself out. Our D needs the most work, including being bigger and nastier. OJ and Hughes are the only “foundational” players I see there.

[Angry Goose]

5 hours ago, CptCanuck16 said:

Lol, it doesn't matter if the players think Green is a swell guy. He's not there to be their friends. He's there for results.  Most bosses are hard asses and while their employees may not like them they do respect them. When Greens giving his guys a pat on the back after a 6-1 loss to MTL  and telling them how well they played it isn't helping anyone. 

 

Secondly, when you hear Green say from the podium night after night that the team played well but just didn't get the bounces how can you conclude anything other than that he's satisfied with the status quo? All his public statements say exactly that.  

Different ways to motivate people.  The old school hard ass always boss/coach is for the dinosaurs.  Doesn't mean Green isn't hard and truthful with his players as well when he needs to be.  

 

Second, and related, what Green says in the media doesn't necessarily reflect what he says to the players in private.  Piling on in the media and creating even more of a $&!#storm doesn't help anybody.  Green has been measured in his remarks for a reason.

Edited February 27, 2021 by SILLY GOOSE

[Nuxfanabroad]

46 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Yep....so we had to come out of the gates in full GO mode and will get to rest a bit as they have to hit that wall.

 

Which is very much a "we'll see what happens" deal.   Weird season/schedule and heading down "the stretch" this year will take on a whole new meaning.  Teams that think it was tough before are going to have a whole new perspective on that.

At least with regards to TDL decisions, this front-heavy sched should be favourable. The more road behind you, easier it is to know what you've got, & where we should turn for the journey ahead.

 

If there was ever a yr to crash out(& pocket a high pick), this one's probably the best. I hope CDC mostly can maintain the long view...

[Smashian Kassian]

Might be a longshot, but I wonder if there would be any interest in Roussel around the league. Maybe even retain a bit, just to clear salary.

[CupIsComing]

54 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I haven't chimed in too much because......well, it's too painful.  

 

I do this for fun and entertainment, not punishment or stress.  It's about keeping that in perspective in a grand scale of it all way.  I'm happy to have hockey back...even if some of it's been a let down.

 

I feel like many are looking for "an" answer when it's much more complex than that.  I feel like an "all of the above" likely covers the gamut and some focus on "one" thing when there's a combination of things not working right now.  And because we don't really know the behind the scenes of it all, it's hard to pinpoint from our vantage point.  We're all experts except...we're really not.

 

Remove X or Y and it may not solve the problem.   We've been handcuffed by Benning, our coaches have failed to be creative or address things as moving targets, the players have slumped and some have mailed in at least partial games, etc.  Plus, our gruelling schedule that some just completely overlook (although, some of it is warranted as these struggles have surfaced prior to this).

 

Things tends to snowball when they're bad...the clutching of the stick is often a result of tension and pressure to perform.   Things start being more forced and the natural flow and tendencies become "overthinking" and putting the team a step behind.

 

There's something bigger than this and it's likely....frustration.  This is how it upsets the balance when it sets in.

 

Have there been glaring issues that have been covered up by goaltending?  Yep.   But all teams will have to be 'saved' by their goaltenders at different periods of time.  It's how this game works.

 

I'm not opposed to getting rid of any of the coaching/management staff.  At all.  Change is often a reset and so I'm open to any of it.  I just don't know that it will have an immediate "add water and stir" result that some expect.  The age of instant gratification.  This is a young team learning how to win and lose.  The losing does something to the confidence and that can have a domino effect.  Especially under a glaring spotlight in this fishbowl market.  Imagine at work if you've been off and people stand over you, screaming for your job.  It's not a great motivator or recipe to succeed

 

Maybe initially canning someone will turn things around....sometimes change infuses a sense of hope and renews energy.  And you can build off that.  But it's not a given.  We always scream for someone's head .... how's that worked for us so far?  It gets tiring over time.  It's always someone's "fault" but maybe it's more of a combined thing and looking for a target in a bullseye way misses the mark.

 

I feel like patience is required in figuring this out - more so than reactionary moves that may or may not solve issues.

 

I've written off this year (even though I still hold hope - homer in me is stubborn) - but I'm ok with that.  "Accept the things I cannot change" is life saving for me at times.

 

Fix it - but take time and don't do knee jerk moves that put us even further in the hole in a long term way.  To appease the screaming masses.  Especially as it relates to the roster because their ideas count in all of this (see:  how they felt about losing pieces like Marky, Tanev, TT and Stecher).  The player's opinions matter (most of all).

 

Not much fun around here lately....a lot of frustration that also upsets this balance.  People have a right to be .... unhappy.  But that's a personal choice we all make and we don't have to take it out on others.  Even if they maintain a positive outlook...it's how some of us choose to do life, that's all.  We're no better or worse for it.  Prodding and poking at people is a vicious circle around here at times.

This is a whole lot of nothing in this post but I don't even care.  This is my team, I support them, the trolls are annoying as hell (which is not to say everyone who's throwing ideas out there is a troll....just those who get enjoyment out of seeing others reactions...especially during difficult times).  We're down right now...don't kick us.  I, for one, kick back and that's not cool either.

This^

Well said Deb.

[PhillipBlunt]

Canucks Season check in

[canuck2288]

1 hour ago, garthsbutcher said:

Seattle can have Green after we don’t protect him in the expansion draft

Seattle never will want anything to do with him 

[canuck2288]

How is finally making a change 4 years and zero success from Green a knee jerk reaction?

 

one covid qualifier and one playoff series win in 4 years. 3 other years out of playoffs. Worse record than Willie, with a much stronger roster. 4 years as coach and a record way under 500

 

3rd worst start to a season

 

lost 13 of last 15 

 

knee jerk reaction?

[-DLC-]

22 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

How is finally making a change 4 years and zero success from Green a knee jerk reaction?

 

one covid qualifier and one playoff series win in 4 years. 3 other years out of playoffs. Worse record than Willie, with a much stronger roster. 4 years as coach and a record way under 500

 

3rd worst start to a season

 

lost 13 of last 15 

 

knee jerk reaction?

1.  What is your idea of "success"?  Cup or bust?

2.  So if the playoff series is a "covid" asterisk deal why isn't this year as well?  Either it matters or it doesn't.

 

Yes...it is knee jerk.  A team that is bringing in young guns yet you want it all and want it now.  DURING COVID where, if you can't count success then that should also apply to failure.   It's a weird year....worst schedule ever "to start a season".  Don't ignore it.

 

Is it THE reason they're struggling?  No.  But it certainly has contributed.  The play lately has been better, even if the results haven't been.  That's what I'm gauging.   As Imac said:  "they're not as bad as their record".  

 

Are you ignoring the parts where I state "I'm not against" changes?   I'm simply suggesting that you may not get the results you want.  It's not as simple as fire someone and all our problems will be solved. 

This team had some recent moving pieces...maybe they need dust settling more than they do further disruption?  There's a lot more to it than "get rid of this guy".  The players will carry some of that as their baggage if it's not what THEY want.   

 

Be careful what you wish for....remember Torts?  I do.  It isn't guaranteed to get better...could get much worse.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, sockeye said:

Good for Coach Q but he has a lot more to work with on that Florida team.

Been *OVER* twenty years since the Panthers have made the post-season two years in a row (something which they're currently well on their way of doing with their current record of tied for 2nd overall in the league standings).  And again, this is only his 2nd season behind the bench.  Granted, it's early but it seems like he's been able to take that team to the next level (regardless of what he might or might not have inherited).  We, on the other hand, seem to be going in circles (I think we're better than our record indicates - at least on paper imho).

Edited February 27, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Bo Dega]

1 hour ago, steviewonder20 said:

Deb, you’ve made some good points. It is complex and the solution is not as easy as fire the coach. We’ve done that lots beginning with Vigneault (who was a coach of the year). In my post yesterday I was optimistic about our top six (when Podz arrives) and our #1 goalie, but our bottom six is full of bad contracts that end in one or two years. That will sort itself out. Our D needs the most work, including being bigger and nastier. OJ and Hughes are the only “foundational” players I see there.

This. Bigger and nastier players...not necessarily nasty but big hardhitting guys who finishes all their hits (like St.

louis did when they won). I think it´s been too much focus on skill and not enough on grit, much like in Buffalo.