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32 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

In my view there will be no window if the path this team is on right now doesn't alter significantly.  I believe many are frustrated because they see no action taken by the those in power to change the path of this franchise.  At the moment they seem to be perfectly ok with accepting mediocrity and/or waiting for the impossible to happen which is for the path to change itself by going to the rink on a daily basis and changing very little. 

The team has to keep toughing it out.  Rebuilds are not easy and players have to be cognizant of this.    Most of the teams that are succeeding right now spent YEARS with their current core players struggling.   How many playoff rounds have the Oilers won with McDavid?   What about the Leafs with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares?   Where was Colorado as a franchise from 2008-2017?   What did Dallas' path look like from 2008 onwards?    

 

Rebuilds take time.    A 2nd round playoff appearance was a good starting point last year but progression isn't always linear.    How did the Canucks do in 2007-2008 by the way?   Didn't they make the 2nd round one year earlier?  What happened from 2008-2013?   

 

Consider what the teams' situation on October 1st 2022:    

 

1) ALL of our bad/transitional contracts will be off the books.   This includes Sutter, Baertschi, Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, Luongo's cap recapture, Spooner, etc. 

2) Miller and Horvat will still be on relatively cap friendly deals.

3) Boeser will still be a cost controlled RFA

4) Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Juolevi, Hoglander, and Podkolzin will be closer to their peaks.

5) IF the Canucks bomb this year and land a lottery pick, our 2021 1st might be a factor in the 2022-2023 season.   

 

The Canucks aren't as far off as people seem to think.    This team is in need of two major things:

 

1) A top pairing 'defensive defenseman' 

2) A good two way third line center that can help Horvat with defensive responsibilities AND utilize his linemates offensively [someone that can 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin (Podkolzin = Pearson replacement.  Cap space permitting, maybe Pearson is re-signed as a 3rd liner).

####-####-Virtanen (A new coach replaces Green [Gallant?], and Virtanen is given a clean slate in a post-covid world where he can resume his normal life and be happy].

Motte-Gaudette-MacEwen (a decent 4th line - I think Gaudette will be a much better fit on the 4th line)

 

Hughes-Larsson (Adam Larsson would be a good fit)

Tryamkin-Schmidt (Tryamkin is the Tanev replacement)

Juolevi-Myers

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17 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

The team has to keep toughing it out.  Rebuilds are not easy and players have to be cognizant of this.    Most of the teams that are succeeding right now spent YEARS with their current core players struggling.   How many playoff rounds have the Oilers won with McDavid?   What about the Leafs with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares?   Where was Colorado as a franchise from 2008-2017?   What did Dallas' path look like from 2008 onwards?    

 

Rebuilds take time.    A 2nd round playoff appearance was a good starting point last year but progression isn't always linear.    How did the Canucks do in 2007-2008 by the way?   Didn't they make the 2nd round one year earlier?  What happened from 2008-2013?   

 

Consider what the teams' situation on October 1st 2022:    

 

1) ALL of our bad/transitional contracts will be off the books.   This includes Sutter, Baertschi, Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, Luongo's cap recapture, Spooner, etc. 

2) Miller and Horvat will still be on relatively cap friendly deals.

3) Boeser will still be a cost controlled RFA

4) Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Juolevi, Hoglander, and Podkolzin will be closer to their peaks.

5) IF the Canucks bomb this year and land a lottery pick, our 2021 1st might be a factor in the 2022-2023 season.   

 

The Canucks aren't as far off as people seem to think.    This team is in need of two major things:

 

1) A top pairing 'defensive defenseman' 

2) A good two way third line center that can help Horvat with defensive responsibilities AND utilize his linemates offensively [someone that can 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin (Podkolzin = Pearson replacement.  Cap space permitting, maybe Pearson is re-signed as a 3rd liner).

####-####-Virtanen (A new coach replaces Green [Gallant?], and Virtanen is given a clean slate in a post-covid world where he can resume his normal life and be happy].

Motte-Gaudette-MacEwen (a decent 4th line - I think Gaudette will be a much better fit on the 4th line)

 

Hughes-Larsson (Adam Larsson would be a good fit)

Tryamkin-Schmidt (Tryamkin is the Tanev replacement)

Juolevi-Myers

Oct. 1st 2022 is all well and good for a date to look forward to but when you look at the entire organization they only have 2 players (Myers and Schmidt) signed for 2023-24 which for all intents and purposes begins in a little over 2 years. That's 48 contracts they need to negotiate. Does Aqua trust Benning with this task or would he prefer to bring in someone this offseason to take this on?

 

By July 1st 2023 the following players will need to be re-signed or have decisions made about whether or not they stay with the organization. And bear in mind that its unknown if the cap will go up by much if at all in the next 2 years.

 

EP

Brock

Bo

Hughes

Miller

Virtanen

Gaudette

Juolevi

Demko

Hoglander

MacEwen

Motte

DiPietro

Sautner

Brisebois

Rafferty

Michaelis

Lind

Jasek

Lockwood

Palmu

Focht

Gadjovich

Rathbone

Woo

Eliot

 

**I posted this on another thread so apologies if you're reading this twice**

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Sometimes to get to the top, it isn't always a straight trajectory upwards - it can be a rollercoaster before we finally 'click' and become a contender. 


Our young and strong core had a great experience last post season, playing meaningful games and winning playoffs series. 


They know that feeling - they want it more than anything, and I'm not concerned they will bounce back.


As for the management of the team, in my opinion why stress about it when it is completely out of our control. 

This could all be a blessing in disguise if we end up drafting a STUD because of our poor season... Could you imagine if we get Luke Hughes? 

 

Go Canucks Go.

 

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1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

Oct. 1st 2022 is all well and good for a date to look forward to but when you look at the entire organization they only have 2 players (Myers and Schmidt) signed for 2023-24 which for all intents and purposes begins in a little over 2 years. That's 48 contracts they need to negotiate. Does Aqua trust Benning with this task or would he prefer to bring in someone this offseason to take this on?

 

By July 1st 2023 the following players will need to be re-signed or have decisions made about whether or not they stay with the organization. And bear in mind that its unknown if the cap will go up by much if at all in the next 2 years.

 

EP

Brock

Bo

Hughes

Miller

Virtanen

Gaudette

Juolevi

Demko

Hoglander

MacEwen

Motte

DiPietro

Sautner

Brisebois

Rafferty

Michaelis

Lind

Jasek

Lockwood

Palmu

Focht

Gadjovich

Rathbone

Woo

Eliot

 

**I posted this on another thread so apologies if you're reading this twice**

Taking this a bit further.

 

Lets say for the sake of argument that the cap stays flat for next season and then goes up by $2m per season for 2 seasons and is at $85.5m for 2023-24 and that neither Schmidt or Myers are traded or selected in the ED.

 

$85.5m

Myers and Schmidt 11.95m (lets call it 12), leaves $73.5m

 

 

Again for the sake of this scenario lets average out the 5 core guys below at $7.5m, a couple might get 8-8.5 a couple might get 6.5-7.

 

EP

Brock

Bo

Hughes

Miller

 

$37.5m, leaves $36m

 

Hoglander, Juolevi and Demko I'll say $7m between the 3.

 

Podkolzin 925k (lets call it 1m)

 

$8m, leaves $28m

 

Brock-EP-Miller

Hoglander-Bo-Podkolzin

xxx-xxx-xxx

xxx-xxx-xxx

 

Hughes-Myers

Schmidt-Juolevi

xxx-xxx

 

Demko

xxx

 

$28m to sign 6-7 bottom 6 forwards, 2-3 bottom pairing dmen and a backup goalie. If Benning (or his replacement) signs a couple of middle to upper tier UFA's ($5-$8m) would leave anywhere from $12-$18m to sign depth players. Will adding a couple of UFA's and a couple of prospects to the current group listed above be enough in 2 years? Depends on the UFA's and how the current players progress the next couple of years I guess.

Edited by GritGrinder
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1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

Oct. 1st 2022 is all well and good for a date to look forward to but when you look at the entire organization they only have 2 players (Myers and Schmidt) signed for 2023-24 which for all intents and purposes begins in a little over 2 years. That's 48 contracts they need to negotiate. Does Aqua trust Benning with this task or would he prefer to bring in someone this offseason to take this on?

 

By July 1st 2023 the following players will need to be re-signed or have decisions made about whether or not they stay with the organization. And bear in mind that its unknown if the cap will go up by much if at all in the next 2 years.

 

EP

Brock

Bo

Hughes

Miller

Virtanen

Gaudette

Juolevi

Demko

Hoglander

MacEwen

Motte

DiPietro

Sautner

Brisebois

Rafferty

Michaelis

Lind

Jasek

Lockwood

Palmu

Focht

Gadjovich

Rathbone

Woo

Eliot

 

**I posted this on another thread so apologies if you're reading this twice**

If the Canucks have a solid 22-23 season, then signing all/most of those core players will not be a problem.    
 

Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, and Horvat.   
 

-1st line C

-1st line sniper

-Elite dman

-Matchups center

-solid goalie

 

That’s your core, and you find ways to build around that regardless of how that manifests. 

 

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47 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

If the Canucks have a solid 22-23 season, then signing all/most of those core players will not be a problem.    
 

Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, and Horvat.   
 

-1st line C

-1st line sniper

-Elite dman

-Matchups center

-solid goalie

 

That’s your core, and you find ways to build around that regardless of how that manifests. 

 

Wasn't really commenting on keeping the core together its more about how the entire organization is at a bit of a crossroads and whether or not Benning is the guy to be in charge going forward.

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14 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

We will have tons of cap space. Elias won’t get more then 6.5 and Quinn shouldn’t get more then 5.  
 

Quinn is just having a terrible season. He’s talented, but I’ll take Sergachev over Quinn right now and he signed for 4.8/year. 

If I were anyone of those players I would bite Benning in the neck and squeese out every dollar I can get.

I would be very surprised if anyone of them takes a team friendly contract when Benning just fecks them afterwards.

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1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

Wasn't really commenting on keeping the core together its more about how the entire organization is at a bit of a crossroads and whether or not Benning is the guy to be in charge going forward.

1) Benning is the guy

2) Organization isn’t at a crossroads at all.  Stay the course.  Trade Edler, Pearson, Sutter, and Benn at the deadline if we are in the same spot as we are now.

 

Don’t listen too much to these idiots on 650 sportsnet or the even bigger idiots on HF Canucks.   Those guys literally can’t see two feet in front of them.   
 

1) Benning and ownership have built this team with the expectation that our real window will start in 22-23 (look at the contracts that will be off the books).

 

2) Organizational progress is usually not a linear process.

 

3) Many of the teams in the NHL that are currently elite, struggled for YEARS on end before finally establishing themselves in that upper echelon.   The media members that are complaining about what they perceive as a lack of progress on the Canucks’ part, simply do not understand what a true rebuild truly entails.    
 

October 2022 and beyond.   Keep your eye on the prize.

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6 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

1) Benning is the guy

2) Organization isn’t at a crossroads at all.  Stay the course.  Trade Edler, Pearson, Sutter, and Benn at the deadline if we are in the same spot as we are now.

 

Don’t listen too much to these idiots on 650 sportsnet or the even bigger idiots on HF Canucks.   Those guys literally can’t see two feet in front of them.   
 

1) Benning and ownership have built this team with the expectation that our real window will start in 22-23 (look at the contracts that will be off the books).

 

2) Organizational progress is usually not a linear process.

 

3) Many of the teams in the NHL that are currently elite, struggled for YEARS on end before finally establishing themselves in that upper echelon.   The media members that are complaining about what they perceive as a lack of progress on the Canucks’ part, simply do not understand what a true rebuild truly entails.    
 

October 2022 and beyond.   Keep your eye on the prize.

26 of the 50 current contracts are RFA's not named Petterson and Hughes that will expire in the next 2+ years. Thats what I mean by an organizational crossroads. I can pretty much guarantee a bunch of those guys will be let go despite being developed for 3-4-5 years by the Canucks. Lots of tough decisions in the next couple of years.

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14 hours ago, linden17 said:

Sorry man, but 2 wins in thirteen games isn’t something that will just pass. This isn’t a growing pain that they’re going through. Something is seriously wrong within this team and it could be anything from the players/coaches and management. A relatively big change is needed. 

your right, but before they start lopping off heads, they have to determine where the problem lies. it is like taking your car to get fixed and the mechanic says it could be this, the problem still exists so he says, well it could be this and on it goes until he has changed everything. i'ld rather the team discover the answers and then act accordingly. if it is the coach , mangement, players, owners or stick boy make the right decisions.

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16 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

We will have tons of cap space. Elias won’t get more then 6.5 and Quinn shouldn’t get more then 5.  
 

Quinn is just having a terrible season. He’s talented, but I’ll take Sergachev over Quinn right now and he signed for 4.8/year. 

out of all the people that you could pick to say they had a terrible season, it had to be Hughes? the sophmore D man thats leading the NHL in points for defenseman? Yeah he might not be having a good defensive game now but who would with Jordie Benn as a partner when he had Tanev last season. Please lay off the smoke because Hughes has made the team more lethal offensively and I rather have Hughes than Sergachev because he is an offensive dynamo that just needs a defensive D man to back him up when he does his thing. Boeser and Hughes have been important for this team this season and without those 2, we would be the worst team in the league 10 games ago.

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5 hours ago, Fanuck said:

In my view there will be no window if the path this team is on right now doesn't alter significantly.  I believe many are frustrated because they see no action taken by the those in power to change the path of this franchise.  At the moment they seem to be perfectly ok with accepting mediocrity and/or waiting for the impossible to happen which is for the path to change itself by going to the rink on a daily basis and changing very little. 

until that bad contracts expire and we get a new GM that can actually identify NHL talents then we will probably not be seeing much improvements. I also don't trust JB when it comes to FA signings. He loves to give huge contracts to players that shouldn't and he will probably spend to the cap once the bad contracts expire for more bad contracts. Myers is one of those contracts that he signed more recently. I really hope we hire Jim Rutherford and get rid of Benning before he screws us up more. 

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4 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

Taking this a bit further.

 

Lets say for the sake of argument that the cap stays flat for next season and then goes up by $2m per season for 2 seasons and is at $85.5m for 2023-24 and that neither Schmidt or Myers are traded or selected in the ED.

 

$85.5m

Myers and Schmidt 11.95m (lets call it 12), leaves $73.5m

 

 

Again for the sake of this scenario lets average out the 5 core guys below at $7.5m, a couple might get 8-8.5 a couple might get 6.5-7.

 

EP

Brock

Bo

Hughes

Miller

 

$37.5m, leaves $36m

 

Hoglander, Juolevi and Demko I'll say $7m between the 3.

 

Podkolzin 925k (lets call it 1m)

 

$8m, leaves $28m

 

Brock-EP-Miller

Hoglander-Bo-Podkolzin

xxx-xxx-xxx

xxx-xxx-xxx

 

Hughes-Myers

Schmidt-Juolevi

xxx-xxx

 

Demko

xxx

 

$28m to sign 6-7 bottom 6 forwards, 2-3 bottom pairing dmen and a backup goalie. If Benning (or his replacement) signs a couple of middle to upper tier UFA's ($5-$8m) would leave anywhere from $12-$18m to sign depth players. Will adding a couple of UFA's and a couple of prospects to the current group listed above be enough in 2 years? Depends on the UFA's and how the current players progress the next couple of years I guess.

The young core of this team is good but I don't like the support players like Myers on this team. If we want a cup, Myers shouldn't be on our top 4 at all. I hope the Canucks expose him to Seattle and get rid of him. Cernak from Tampa Bay could be had if they still have cap problems and I would offer up something good to get it done similar to the Miller trade. They should also sign Tryamkin and Rathbone for the bottom pair for cheap and maybe add a depth D like a Fantenberg. Bottom 6 forwards can be filled mostly internally by signing Tyler motte, Lockwood, Lind and Mckewan. Spend money on a shut down 3rd line center that has some offense and maybe add another Pearson type player. One prospect I would watch for to make our team is Arvid Costmar who played well in WJC this year. I rather the Canucks build the team through their draft picks and only do trades that make sense. Signing free agents are risky most of the time and doesn't work out most of the time. 

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7 hours ago, nux_win said:

If we want to progress, we need to be better THIS YEAR!  We've got enough good players, we just need to get our confidence back somehow.  The margin between winning and losing in the NHL is so tiny that we're really not that far away from winning games even though our record sucks.  We just have to keep up the effort (pardon me, increase the effort) and make little adjustments.  I don't think any major changes are needed, we just need to do better with what we have.  We can't just flush this year and count on next year, we have to start the turnaround RIGHT NOW!  Go Canucks Go!

You are a funny guy buddy. 

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2 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

26 of the 50 current contracts are RFA's not named Petterson and Hughes that will expire in the next 2+ years. Thats what I mean by an organizational crossroads. I can pretty much guarantee a bunch of those guys will be let go despite being developed for 3-4-5 years by the Canucks. Lots of tough decisions in the next couple of years.

Oh ok I see what you mean.  Still - it’s not that big of an issue for me as long as you have a young core of players intact.  Supplementary players come and go all the time.   As long as there’s cap space and a good young nucleus in tact, we should have no problem whatsoever in replacing the departed.

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4 hours ago, smithers joe said:

your right, but before they start lopping off heads, they have to determine where the problem lies. it is like taking your car to get fixed and the mechanic says it could be this, the problem still exists so he says, well it could be this and on it goes until he has changed everything. i'ld rather the team discover the answers and then act accordingly. if it is the coach , mangement, players, owners or stick boy make the right decisions.

careful the Canucks might just spend the next 3 years blaming the stick boy

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2 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Oh ok I see what you mean.  Still - it’s not that big of an issue for me as long as you have a young core of players intact.  Supplementary players come and go all the time.   As long as there’s cap space and a good young nucleus in tact, we should have no problem whatsoever in replacing the departed.

but the problem with a Jim Team is the useless do not depart and that means the useful must

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