[Discussion] Realistic Value of Quinn Hughes

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

These threads are useless.

 

Quinn isn't going anywhere.

Yet you still feel the need to chime in

[Nuxfanabroad]

13 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

These threads are useless.

 

Quinn isn't going anywhere.

I'd counter that boards like these are rendered useless, because so many folks get their noses outa' joint, simply from talking in hypotheticals.

 

So JB's phone rings, & this that or the other is offered..what should we do?

Too many hardcores melt down, just from pondering possibilities. Where's the fun in that?

[zimmy]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I don't think so.  Not many teams win Cups riding on the shoulders of elite offensive dmen.  Pieterangelo, Hedman, Doughty, Pronger.........these are the guys you ride to a Cup......not a Karlsson.

In total agreement with this. He is valuable now, will be valuable in the future and you might win one with him, but if he is your #1 I just don’t see it.

I’d be hesitant to get rid of him but at some point (and maybe we are approaching that moment) this team needs to find it’s real #1, play driving, minute munching, shut down, imposing his will d-man. Only then can you talk about a cup. And only then will Q’s value will be maximized. The way we are set up at present it’s too easy to key in on, physically target and neutralize him.  
 

Now ...... if I think we’ve found lightening in a bottle with JRathbone..... I’m taking calls.

[BarnBurner]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

No way the Islanders would ever do a Barzal for Hughes straight up.

Both of your replies are laughable. Why would you trade a proven, yet, still inexperienced/developing Dman, for a forward who would have lost the Calder trophy to Boeser, if Brock wasn't injured, or for some guy named Byfield who hasn't proven himself at all? Yeah, I get it, he's a 2nd overall, but Gubrandson was a 3rd overall, and so on. Ridiculous. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

Both of your replies are laughable. Why would you trade a proven, yet, still inexperienced/developing Dman, for a forward who would have lost the Calder trophy to Boeser, if Brock wasn't injured, or for some guy named Byfield who hasn't proven himself at all? Yeah, I get it, he's a 2nd overall, but Gubrandson was a 3rd overall, and so on. Ridiculous. 

Hughes hasn't proven anything yet, other than that he can generate offense........but not at a rate that compensates for defensive deficiencies.

 

Again, everything comes with risk, but not many teams win the Cup with players like Hughes as their top damn.  The Cup is the only trophy I'm interested in.

 

Teams that win, win with at least one big, dominant can and a minute munching, heavy impact damn who is the go to gut in every situation.  The Canucks have neither of those, but they might just get the damn in the upcoming draft.  Hughes might get them the second piece

[mll]

4 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I've long considered sending him to NJ. I think that's who'd give us the best return.

 

Imagine if they'd give you Holtz & their 2021 1st? Can't say how much they'd pay? But bet they'd love to market a Hughes combo.

 

I've never really liked smallish, offensive-oriented D. Also with OJ, JR, JW & (hopefully) NT back there, we'd still have lots to be excited about.

Hughes has poor defensive numbers and NJD might be too much into advanced stats - not involving their stats department was part of the reason Shero got fired and they’ve added since.  Hughes has apparently some of the worst defensive advanced stats in the league.

[fanfor42]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

Yet you still feel the need to chime in

Ya of course I do.  Quinn Hughes is a phenomenal young talent and the fact that the point 1 percent of Canuck fans who are on these boards want to run down the chances of him being traded is awful.

 

He will not be traded.  He will be here for many years.  He is a terrific talent and a quality kid who deserves a fan base that is more interested in supporting the team of young guys than making a pretend name for themselves on a chat board.

 

You will now go on to argue this and go ahead.  Knock yourself out, but  our young players deserve a supportive fan base not a bunch of wannabe keyboard heroes.

 

By the way Stawns, you're the guy who argued with everyone who came on that there would be no season this year due to Covid.  You chastised people for being uninformed. You knew.  Everyone else did not.  You said it over and over again. Well partner that was wrong.  And you lost me at that point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BarnBurner]

Just now, stawns said:

Hughes hasn't proven anything yet, other than that he can generate offense........but not at a rate that compensates for defensive deficiencies.

 

Again, everything comes with risk, but not many teams win the Cup with players like Hughes as their top damn.  The Cup is the only trophy I'm interested in.

 

Teams that win, win with at least one big, dominant can and a minute munching, heavy impact damn who is the go to gut in every situation.  The Canucks have neither of those, but they might just get the damn in the upcoming draft.  Hughes might get them the second piece

That's the one thing that any true Canuck fan is interested in. I'm pretty sure all of us who are here on a regular basis would agree to that. I still believe Hughes is a game changer, so what would you trade him for and why? You need guys like him as well.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Ya of course I do.  Quinn Hughes is a phenomenal young talent and the fact that the point 1 percent of Canuck fans who are on these boards want to run down the chances of him being traded is awful.

 

He will not be traded.  He will be here for many years.  He is a terrific talent and a quality kid who deserves a fan base that is more interested in supporting the team of young guys than making a pretend name for themselves on a chat board.

 

You will now go on to argue this and go ahead.  Knock yourself out, but  our young players deserve a supportive fan base not a bunch of wannabe keyboard heroes.

 

By the way Stawns, you're the guy who argued with everyone who came on that there would be no season this year due to Covid.  You chastised people for being uninformed. You knew.  Everyone else did not.  You said it over and over again. Well partner that was wrong.  And you lost me at that point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They should have cancelled the season, I'd have preferred it.  This season is pretty much like an 80's TV show that goes off the rails and they start the next season by writing it off as a dream.  

 

So you'd rather have a small, one dimensional dman in the grind of a playoffs than a big bodied, fast, dominant cman?  I certainly don't think you'd move Hughes unless the deal was for a legit #1, game changing cman who can dominate.  I love Hughes, but if you can get a Byfield for him, you take that deal, imo.  

 

 

 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

That's the one thing that any true Canuck fan is interested in. I'm pretty sure all of us who are here on a regular basis would agree to that. I still believe Hughes is a game changer, so what would you trade him for and why? You need guys like him as well.

Byfield or other young, big dominant cman or a #1-2 OA in a great draft.

 

In no way have I said to dump Hughes, I think he's an elite scorer and I'm happy he's in Van rather than playing against Van.  But, if he's the cost of getting that cman this org has always coveted and never had, then yes, I give it serious consideration and probably would want them to do that deal.

[BarnBurner]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Byfield or other young, big dominant cman or a #1-2 OA in a great draft.

 

In no way have I said to dump Hughes, I think he's an elite scorer and I'm happy he's in Van rather than playing against Van.  But, if he's the cost of getting that cman this org has always coveted and never had, then yes, I give it serious consideration and probably would want them to do that deal.

Fair enough. But Byfield or any other potential 1st or 2nd overall hasn't proven jack. I say hang on to the proven commodity. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Good night.

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, -AJ- said:

It's so hard to place a value on him at this point, but it would be a ton. Of course, as @Teemu Selänne says, if we were to actually trade him, it would have to involve overpayment due to how critical he is to our team.

 

As far as his value, distinct from how much we need him, I'd say two unprotected 1sts, a good rookie/sophomore player (19-22 y/0 middle six/2nd pairing), and 23-28 y/o middle six/2nd pairing defenseman might be about right. Add more to that for us to trade him since we need Hughes so badly.

 

Using the Blackhawks as an example, it might be (straight value, not a realistic actual trade):

 

To Van:

Kubalik (21 years old - borderline 1st line winger)

2021 1st

2022 1st

Murphy (27 years old - 2/3 defenseman)

 

To Chi:

Hughes

 

A more realistic actual trade (from VAN's perspective) might be:

To Van:

Kubalik (21 years old, borderline 1st line winger)

2021 1st

2022 1st

Murphy (27 years old - 2/3 defenseman)

Boqvist (20 years old - 3/4 defenseman)

 

To Chi:

Hughes

Eriksson (no retention)

Roussel (no retention)

 

I don't think Chicago agrees to the 2nd above trade though.

 

Any deal with the Hawks involving Hughes needs Dach coming back in the package or I'd hang up. 

[Angry Goose]

I'm curious what Hughes value would be relative to someone like Eichel.  

[fanfor42]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

They should have cancelled the season, I'd have preferred it.  This season is pretty much like an 80's TV show that goes off the rails and they start the next season by writing it off as a dream.  

 

So you'd rather have a small, one dimensional dman in the grind of a playoffs than a big bodied, fast, dominant cman?  I certainly don't think you'd move Hughes unless the deal was for a legit #1, game changing cman who can dominate.  I love Hughes, but if you can get a Byfield for him, you take that deal, imo.  

 

 

 

As a start why don't you say.  Ya buddy I was wrong about the season being cancelled, instead of ignoring what you did.  Partner you were grandstanding for months.  Telling everyone you knew it would be cancelled.  They didn't know - you did.

 

My point is that undermines the credibility of  discussions with you. It makes you look alike a guy who is on here to hear his own voice. So I'm giving you the chance to say ya I was wrong and let's move on. I will happily move on if you do that.

 

Having said that I would be happy to debate your notion of trading a 2nd year phenom because he has work to do on the defensive side.

 

I personally believe that the most critical thing to the Canucks ever winning a Cup is the ability to build a core that hangs together and feels like they are an unstoppable force. The guys you draft top ten and are quality kids are the cornerstones.  2011 came close.  Let's get it done the next time.

 

Chucking guys because you wanna chase another guy who may or may not develop in a way you perceive is better - that's not my view of how to build a team. You have to consider the impact on the other guys.  You largely have to dance with who brung ya. No?

 

[4petesake]

38 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I'd counter that boards like these are rendered useless, because so many folks get their noses outa' joint, simply from talking in hypotheticals.

 

So JB's phone rings, & this that or the other is offered..what should we do?

Too many hardcores melt down, just from pondering possibilities. Where's the fun in that?

I would assume that someone coming to this thread either wants to take a crack at answering Hippy’s question or wants to see what other people think a QH trade would get you. Not sure what makes some so unhappy with the discussion. These are probably the same people that get ticked every time two teams make a trade wondering why JB did nothing. 

 

I love the guy and have no interest in seeing him traded but if I’m JB and my phone rings with one of these offers I might not take it but I’m not hanging up either. Don’t know what NJ has that we might want but I would be curious what a reverse-Burkie trade could bring us. 

 

 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, fanfor42 said:

As a start why don't you say.  Ya buddy I was wrong about the season being cancelled, instead of ignoring what you did.  Partner you were grandstanding for months.  Telling everyone you knew it would be cancelled.  They didn't know - you did.

 

My point is that undermines the credibility of  discussions with you. It makes you look alike a guy who is on here to hear his own voice. So I'm giving you the chance to say ya I was wrong and let's move on. I will happily move on if you do that.

 

Having said that I would be happy to debate your notion of trading a 2nd year phenom because he has work to do on the defensive side.

 

I personally believe that the most critical thing to the Canucks ever winning a Cup is the ability to build a core that hangs together and feels like they are an unstoppable force. The guys you draft top ten and are quality kids are the cornerstones.  2011 came close.  Let's get it done the next time.

 

Chucking guys because you wanna chase another guy who may or may not develop in a way you perceive is better - that's not my view of how to build a team. You have to consider the impact on the other guys.  You largely have to dance with who brung ya. No?

 

You do understand who it is some of us are saying we'd be ok with a trade for right?  We're not just saying move him for spare parts here.  This team needs a big game changing legit #1 cman more than they need a dman like Hughes

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

I don't think so.  Not many teams win Cups riding on the shoulders of elite offensive dmen.  Pieterangelo, Hedman, Doughty, Pronger.........these are the guys you ride to a Cup......not a Karlsson.

Karlsson played for Ottawa. They wasted his talent. The guys you mentioned were all 2nd overall picks accept Pietrangelo who went 4th, so good luck acquiring those guys unless you are a crappy team. Then you need to spend years surrounding them with talent. 
 

We were lucky to get Hughes at 7. We may never get a top 3 pick ever again. So we have to build around Hughes. If you trade him how do you replace his 80 points?  What you need to do is find a stud defensive Dman who can partner him. That’s what Benning needs to do and it’s his #1 priority right now. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

I would assume that someone coming to this thread either wants to take a crack at answering Hippy’s question or wants to see what other people think a QH trade would get you. Not sure what makes some so unhappy with the discussion. These are probably the same people that get ticked every time two teams make a trade wondering why JB did nothing. 

 

I love the guy and have no interest in seeing him traded but if I’m JB and my phone rings with one of these offers I might not take it but I’m not hanging up either. Don’t know what NJ has that we might want but I would be curious what a reverse-Burkie trade could bring us. 

 

 

Yeah..it's kinda' weird. In general as a hockey fan always used to find it interesting to discuss.."Hey guy#A-1..do you think he's worth this & that?" Then bystanders start hopping up & down. It's like you're amongst some divine religious group, openly pondering a chocolate-orgy during lent!!!

 

It goes farther. Bet you a lot of posters are afraid to post a trade-notion, cos' they're worried the Nucker-fanbase SWAT team will kick their door in...

[fanfor42]

1 minute ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yeah..it's kinda' weird. In general as a hockey fan always used to find it interesting to discuss.."Hey guy#A-1..do you think he's worth this & that?" Then bystanders start hopping up & down. It's like you're amongst some divine religious group, openly pondering a chocolate-orgy during lent!!!

 

It goes farther. Bet you a lot of posters are afraid to post a trade-notion, cos' they're worried the Nucker-fanbase SWAT team will kick their door in...

How silly.

 

My point is that you don't trade a second year phenomenal player because you are chasing something else.  You build your team.  You develop Hughes and see what he can become. I'm glad you are not the GM who loudly declares to young guys we draft in the top ten, come to Vancouver we will trade you early on in your career for players that have been developed by other teams because we don't believe we can develop you. Utter nonsense.

 

The fact that fans for 50 years don't see the value in speculating on trading one of our very top talents less than two years into his career is lost on people who are more interested in the glory of posting than the reality of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, fanfor42 said:

How silly.

 

My point is that you don't trade a second year phenomenal player because you are chasing something else.  You build your team.  You develop Hughes and see what he can become. I'm glad you are not the GM who loudly declares to young guys we draft in the top ten, come to Vancouver we will trade you early on in your career for players that have been developed by other teams because we don't believe we can develop you. Utter nonsense.

 

The fact that fans for 50 years don't see the value in speculating on trading one of our very top talents less than two years into his career is lost on people who are more interested in the glory of posting than the reality of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might be true but check the title of the thread.