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The poultryfication of Jake Virtanen

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Jake “the Duck” Virtanen?  

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51 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Not to step into your mini feud, but I've been torturing myself reading through the last half of this thread and the tit for tat between you and Provost.  A heck of a lot of words of a very simple argument....Is being rated #6 for NA skaters, different than being rated #6 of available talent from the whole planet overall, (including goalies)?   Seems you took a heck of a long time to finally agree to that, kind of.

 

That whole argument is a red herring to what JB did this off season with him. Re-signed to a two year back loaded contract.  Screwing up his ability to even trade him (looks like the Anaheim deal is failing because of that) Seems a little desperate just to fill out his roster after he "ran out of time" with the players he should have been concentrating on. I'd rather have kept Stecher @2.3, who was way more important to our success than Jake, our second best +/-  D on the team last season. No need for Hamonic. Use that money to get a decent third liner FA.

 

The fact is Jake was not taken by any team above us in the draft, and that we have no idea how high Jake would have gone if we'd passed on him.  Are you sure that the Hurricanes, Leafs, and Jets would have picked Virtanen?  A player that The Red Line Report praised for his skating, but also said: 

 

"Prototypical pro power winger with the draft's best combination of size, speed, shot, and raw power. A natural sniper whose shot is an absolute laser beam, and he loves to fire it from any anywhere. An explosive straight ahead skater who just torches defenders and plays with swagger. Absolutely loves the physical side of the game - gives and takes big hits and comes back even harder. Tough as nails and a devastating fighter. Impossible to move him off the puck from the circles in. He doesn't have great vision or hockey sense - if he did, we'd be talking about the clear-cut best player in the draft. Holds onto the puck longer than he should. Great at penetrating the middle in offensive zone, uses size to gain space in the slot and knock players off the puck. A physically imposing open ice hitter – always has opponents looking over their shoulders."

 

Benning overlooked "vision and hockey sense" as being important, and went with the popular local boy who was going to somehow overcome that lack of hockey sense with his grit and speed. Because he "Absolutely loves the physical side of the game" and " Impossible to move him off the puck from the circles in"  :lol:

 

Is it that hard to admit JB made a mistake in 2014?  I can. Just like we don't know how high Jake would have been picked if not for us, Jim didn't know he'd be such a bust either. Fair enough. But he made the pick. He is the one with way more informed advice at his beckon call than we do on a message board. That's one thing that is hilarious on here, giving Jim a bottomless mulligan as if he had just as many resources as any member of CDC. :wacko:

 

The buck stops with him, sorry, that's the responsibility he is paid handsomely for. He was the one that chose not to listen to those who were more skeptical like Craig Button, and instead agreed with Bob McKenzie, who I'm using because he was the highest, @ 8, you could find.  BTW someone who also raved about Cody Hodgson as being maybe the biggest steal in his years draft. 

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This is a logic that doesn't make sense. If we saw ahead of time that they'll pick a player, does that mean he is necessarily "better" than another player? Maybe the player fits a team's need more (i.e Barret Hayton), which was a reach of a pick at the time. However, he's looking to be a good pick after the fact.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/barrett-hayton-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

 

Barrett's pick was rated as high as a 9, but most of the other picks had him later in the first round. If we thought about players like Provost does, he'll just say it's a horrible pick because of what scouts said. Yet he's proven to the Coyotes that he was a good pick in hindsight. Risky picky, but one that paid off.

 

Look at it using the Pettersson pick. I think it's safe to say most people did not know he'll end up being one of the best players in that draft thus far, outshining higher picks like Hischier and Patrick. So we can evaluate a player in hindsight all day long, like Provost has been doing, but he'll never be able to explain what makes a player "better" or worse, other than him not being rated higher or lower by scouts.

 

He's tried so hard to make himself sound right, it really is as painful to read as he says.

 

But I am done with talking to someone who doesn't use his brain for anything else than to rehash what he originally stated, and calling everyone else irrational.

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23 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Done. I'm not going to personally engage with this poster again.

Great...
At least there is some good news for the day, even if the game turns out badly.

 

Edit...

Narrator:  What Provost didn’t know was that promise was going to last just a couple minutes before Dazzle started in on his tirade and insults again.

 

Please stop as has been requested by the mod and you just promised.

Edited by Provost
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4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

This is a logic that doesn't make sense. If we saw ahead of time that they'll pick a player, does that mean he is necessarily "better" than another player? Maybe the player fits a team's need more (i.e Barret Hayton), which was a reach of a pick at the time. However, he's looking to be a good pick after the fact.

 

Look at it using the Pettersson pick. I think it's safe to say most people did not know he'll end up being one of the best players in that draft thus far, outshining higher picks like Hischier and Patrick. So we can evaluate a player in hindsight all day long, like Provost has been doing, but he'll never be able to explain what makes a player "better" or worse, other than him not being rated higher or lower by scouts.

He's tried so hard to make himself sound right, it really is as painful to read as he says.

 

But I am done with talking to someone who doesn't use his brain for anything else than to rehash what he originally stated, and calling everyone else irrational.

 

I just think it boils down to the buck stops with JB.  One can give excuses and other examples of other GMs making mistakes too. But that doesn't negate JB's mistakes.  We have fun(?) debating hockey decisions in here, but JB is the one with all the insight, experience, connections, and power to actually make those decisions.  I'm more sour now mostly because its a accumulation of JB's past.....and ongoing.....mistakes. This re-signing of Jake for two years after a dismal playoff performance, is simply the latest one. And its killing me because I've spent so much time and dedication to this team, and I want to see them win the Cup in my lifetime.

 

Okay Deb, sorry I just had to jump in. 

zipper-mouth-face.png

 

 

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Just now, kilgore said:

 

I just think it boils down to the buck stops with JB.  One can give excuses and other examples of other GMs making mistakes too. But that doesn't negate JB's mistakes.  We have fun(?) debating hockey decisions in here, but JB is the one with all the insight, experience, connections, and power to actually make those decisions.  I'm more sour now mostly because its a accumulation of JB's past.....and ongoing.....mistakes. This re-signing of Jake for two years after a dismal playoff performance, is simply the latest one. And its killing me because I've spent so much time and dedication to this team, and I want to see them win the Cup in my lifetime.

 

Okay Deb, sorry I just had to jump in. 

zipper-mouth-face.png

 

 

Yeah, that's fair. JB has made more than enough mistakes to be judged for that. I think it's an interesting take to say that the mistakes he's made are at least partially attributable to Gillis' mishandling of prospect development. But definitely not an "excuse" for JB.

 

 

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A certain poster is crying that his name was mentioned a couple of times, but I didn't engage with the poster, as promised. If only he could comprehend what he was reading, he'd understand instead of blabbering.


I was merely discussing what had been taking place, in order to talk to kilgore. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited by Dazzle
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Well Lazy Jake had another dismal performance against Winnipeg tonight.   If only he could have one good game so he could look promising to some sucker team willing to take him off our hands.  Surely TG can somehow squeeze one last half-baked performance out that kid???

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On 2/28/2021 at 10:34 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

 

the post you made with the images of Pat Quinn.... thats what this team is missing right now, a team culture like he brought in. I feel like we have most of the player pieces but the team has lost its swagger. 

DIng! Ding! Ding! I believe this Team wants to mold a team structure that was built around the Sedins. No aggressive play, no fighters, no bang and crash. The "gentlemanly" style in which players who play that game are discouraged from playing aggressively or anything other then skill only hockey. Look at our PP for an example. Look familiar?

Who gets sat mostly? Jake, Beags, Mac and Rouss stays in the line up because he toes the coaches line and does not play like that anymore. 

Even Miller played with more aggression in his game and I haven't seen him hit in awhile now, and he looks frustrated about something this year.

I stopped supporting Green and now I am not sure about Benning because someone is building this team under this structure. 

I think Jake has given up and he will not grow as player with this management. 

I believe we also have key pieces to the puzzle too but we are going to end up like Toronto with no clear direction of what kind of team we have but we sure have a few skilled players in the line up. That's a recipe for Cup success for sure. ::D

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4 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

DIng! Ding! Ding! I believe this Team wants to mold a team structure that was built around the Sedins. No aggressive play, no fighters, no bang and crash. The "gentlemanly" style in which players who play that game are discouraged from playing aggressively or anything other then skill only hockey. Look at our PP for an example. Look familiar?

Who gets sat mostly? Jake, Beags, Mac and Rouss stays in the line up because he toes the coaches line and does not play like that anymore. 

Even Miller played with more aggression in his game and I haven't seen him hit in awhile now, and he looks frustrated about something this year.

I stopped supporting Green and now I am not sure about Benning because someone is building this team under this structure. 

I think Jake has given up and he will not grow as player with this management. 

I believe we also have key pieces to the puzzle too but we are going to end up like Toronto with no clear direction of what kind of team we have but we sure have a few skilled players in the line up. That's a recipe for Cup success for sure. ::D

I actually think Jim has done a good job brining in guys who are very competitive and want to win, so I can't fault him on character at all. 

 

I dislike Baumer and Mr. PP Specialist more than Green, he needs better quality help but I think they all sink or swim together. 

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5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I actually think Jim has done a good job brining in guys who are very competitive and want to win, so I can't fault him on character at all. 

 

I dislike Baumer and Mr. PP Specialist more than Green, he needs better quality help but I think they all sink or swim together. 

Miller, Pearson, Motte are great acquisitions.

 

Beagle, Roussel, Sutter are way overpaid even before the ink was dry on their contract.

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1 minute ago, ruilin96 said:

Miller, Pearson, Motte are great acquisitions.

 

Beagle, Roussel, Sutter are way overpaid even before the ink was dry on their contract.

sure, you have to overpay to bring guys like that to a rebuilding team. Thank god too, I couldn't take another year of guys like Skillle. 

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26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I actually think Jim has done a good job brining in guys who are very competitive and want to win, so I can't fault him on character at all. 

 

I dislike Baumer and Mr. PP Specialist more than Green, he needs better quality help but I think they all sink or swim together. 

Actually, thinking on it more JB did try to bring in players such as Ferlund, Toffoli, Myers and Motte is a keeper with a lot of character. Motte should have been inserted in the top 6 though the way he was playing before getting sidelined. 

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1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

Actually, thinking on it more JB did try to bring in players such as Ferlund, Toffoli, Myers and Motte is a keeper with a lot of character. Motte should have been inserted in the top 6 though the way he was playing before getting sidelined. 

exactly, thats why I put this year's disaster on ice on the coaches, we have better players than what we're seeing on the ice. 

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32 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

exactly, thats why I put this year's disaster on ice on the coaches, we have better players than what we're seeing on the ice. 

Yes the players just don't look like they are having fun this year and this is not just about Jake, the last time I seen this kind of effort from the "team" was when Torts was the Coach. ::D

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It doesn't matter in this Covid era.The phony crowd noise inspires no one. The problem is going to be with this team for a long time, unless the owners have had enough. Seattle is going to be in the picture very soon too.

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