[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Winnterpeg Jets | March 1, 2021 | 5 p.m. PT | SNP, TVAS

[BMorrison 7]

8 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

Made no coaching change 

 

Took 2 days off in the midst of a long losing streak 

 

going to get destroyed but i guess at this point it’s looking to be the plan for the rest of the season

 

 

Nobody can save this team.  The GM completely capped us out to the top signing garage players in our bottom 6 to ridiculous contracts.  We aren’t gonna be any better next year either .  

[canuktravella]

23 minutes ago, MNaslund?? said:

Nobody can save this team.  The GM completely capped us out to the top signing garage players in our bottom 6 to ridiculous contracts.  We aren’t gonna be any better next year either .  

 edler sutter benn pearson baertchi spooner and bonus overages come off the books   eriksson can be sent to ahli suspect  he might retire  plus   roussel will be bought  out  one of myers  beagle holtby will be grabbed by seattle. i hope we trade all expiring contracts for draft picks. We can pick up a few cheap waiver wire or ufa players this offseason and resign our main core kids and we gold plus get a decent top 3 pick 

[BMorrison 7]

40 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 edler sutter benn pearson baertchi spooner and bonus overages come off the books   eriksson can be sent to ahli suspect  he might retire  plus   roussel will be bought  out  one of myers  beagle holtby will be grabbed by seattle. i hope we trade all expiring contracts for draft picks. We can pick up a few cheap waiver wire or ufa players this offseason and resign our main core kids and we gold plus get a decent top 3 pick 

I hope you’re right.  If so Benning has a lot of work to do. If he’s still around....(I hope he’s not) lol

[Angry Goose]

39 minutes ago, lmm said:

 

5 shifts here and 3 shifts there is not what I call an opportunity, especially when taken in the context given by DibdaQuib about what kind of player Jake might be. 

 

And if you missed the Bo will be a Selke candidate, you either were not here or were not paying attention. It was posted, but too long ago to be found now.

At the time he was being compared to JToews, Selke/Smythe/Messier(i am puking slightly) winner

Jake dominated junior because of his physical advantages compared to his competition.  Problem with Jake is that alone isnt going to seperate from dedicated professional athletes. 

 

 Second, Jake has had plenty of opportunity to play his game-hes been encouraged in public a number of times to play to his strengths which is to use his skating, size and shot.  No one expects him to make the type of high difficulty plays Miller does for example, so the idea he is being "pressured" to play a style he is uncomfortable with I don't really agree to. 

 

The Bo thing is just you graping at straws.  Hardly a knock against TG. 

 

[vannuck59]

3 hours ago, canuktravella said:

 edler sutter benn pearson baertchi spooner and bonus overages come off the books   eriksson can be sent to ahli suspect  he might retire  plus   roussel will be bought  out  one of myers  beagle holtby will be grabbed by seattle. i hope we trade all expiring contracts for draft picks. We can pick up a few cheap waiver wire or ufa players this offseason and resign our main core kids and we gold plus get a decent top 3 pick 

Eriksson is not giving up 6 million $ would you buying him out is their only option to get rid of him , Roussel the owner will not buy out so your stuck with him. Unless Seattle takes him . Yah Jim has us set up nicely LOL 

[vannuck59]

My thoughts on Travis Green and Jake Virtanen , If you take a wild horse and and whip it into submission thats what you will get a inattentive, submissive horse afraid to do anything and unsure of its place. Green has made Jake into what he is. The team as well as Jake is molded by Green. Fire Green and you have a different Team and a different Jake. If Benning cant see this then he is truly not the man for the job.

[Drakrami]

Wow 24 games in of brutal losses and finally some line changes...!? Or have I not been following the team enough? 

[Rick_theRyper]

I would maybe try Pearson on the third and Hogz back to the second, Jake played alright with Bo but leave Hogz up on Lw

[Drakrami]

3 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Jake dominated junior because of his physical advantages compared to his competition.  Problem with Jake is that alone isnt going to seperate from dedicated professional athletes. 

 

 Second, Jake has had plenty of opportunity to play his game-hes been encouraged in public a number of times to play to his strengths which is to use his skating, size and shot.  No one expects him to make the type of high difficulty plays Miller does for example, so the idea he is being "pressured" to play a style he is uncomfortable with I don't really agree to. 

 

The Bo thing is just you graping at straws.  Hardly a knock against TG. 

 

A point a game in junior is very far off from dominating lol... Not to mention he regressed in his final year. 

[canuck2288]

3 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

My thoughts on Travis Green and Jake Virtanen , If you take a wild horse and and whip it into submission thats what you will get a inattentive, submissive horse afraid to do anything and unsure of its place. Green has made Jake into what he is. The team as well as Jake is molded by Green. Fire Green and you have a different Team and a different Jake. If Benning cant see this then he is truly not the man for the job.

Could not agree more. Green gets mystery credit from so many for a guy that has accomplished nothing 

 

he has ruined Gauds and Jake and frankly soon Miller will want out and more will follow

 

we are not even close with his “systems” and every game includes lapses and defensive tire fires 

 

keep the core intact and let a new coach take charge 

Edited March 1, 2021 by canuck2288

[Convincing John]

4 hours ago, canuktravella said:

 edler sutter benn pearson baertchi spooner and bonus overages come off the books   eriksson can be sent to ahli suspect  he might retire  plus   roussel will be bought  out  one of myers  beagle holtby will be grabbed by seattle. i hope we trade all expiring contracts for draft picks. We can pick up a few cheap waiver wire or ufa players this offseason and resign our main core kids and we gold plus get a decent top 3 pick 

Nothing Jim Benning has done in the past, supports this agenda. The only time Benning moves cap is to receive cap. Everyone is all excited about all the extra cap space coming in the next 2 years but if we look at what he has done with cap in the past, you can bet your life he will use up every penny on day 1 of UFA. 

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

There are always exceptions to most things.  Larry Robinson for example.  I can ignore Stan Smyl's disaster as head coach on the Moose due to inexperience (never had, to my knowledge, a real hockey head coaching job before that).

You bet.  Gretkzy's shot wasn't terrible, wasn't great either - Paul McLean is another very good player who had some decent success as a coach.   But for the most part, the best players haven't come close to equaling their success as a player - Robinson is a guy i'd welcome with open arms, from what i've read he's enjoyed the cup win as much as he did winning with MTL - like Quin a real players coach.    Deb posted an article in another thread when Pat Quin passed away... saying that the fear the players had wasn't from how he acted (for the most part), but because they loved the guy so much they would go through walls for him.   Personally that's the type of coach i'd love to have, not many guys like that at the moment.   Robinson for sure is one, and was also part of St. Louis cup team in an advisory role - top level guy.

 

As far systems go - Trotz currently sets the bar.   Just look at what he managed with NYI, after Tavares just left - reduced their goals against massively - 50% or so...with only a modest reduction in goals for.    Already taken them to the final four where they really had no business either - no partial media experts put Travis Green and Trotz on a mantle for last years playoff results.

 

I don't think TG is a bad coach or a great coach.   He's proven he can squeeze more out of our roster at times - and well as go the other way.    Curiously up until now, the losing streaks we've had under him mostly correspond with key injuries (Edler, Tanev, BB, Markstrom etc)....

 

I also think he's gained some capital from those 17 games - and because our schedule, lack of training camp/practice time etc for sure played a part in our first 12-15 games or so.   The last ten games we haven't been blown out (yet lol), all the games we've had a chance to win, and a lot of them minus empty net goals (which the teams done a good job of avoiding the last ten games or so too)...let's just say IF we had a full 82 game schedule there for sure would be time to dig out and make a push for the playoffs.

 

That said change is also a good thing, and maybe TG has met his expiry date this season.   Don't see much of any point in hiring a new coach before the seasons up unless an excellent candidate becomes available - and I can't see an excellent candidate available (sorry Julien, your a good experience NHL coach - but couldn't do much of anything with MTL so no thanks!). 

 

Odds are stacked against an extension.   But it's not a foregone conclusion either - if he ends up with a .650 or higher record the second half - don't be surprised at all to see him get one - i won't.   

 

Edit:  Personally i think the team needs another high pick this year.   We need another blue chip D in the pipe for when the cores in its prime - and we also need a 3C - with the upside to eventually replace Horvat.   Either would help the cause.   Wingers are easy to acquire - yes we need one more of those too - free agency should solve that. and free agency should also solve one more top four D - eventually. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by IBatch

[Gawdzukes]

8 hours ago, BarnBurner said:

First of all, I always appreciate your input. 

 

However, Green was NOT the toast of the town. Me and my buddies were happy and thankful the Canucks went as far they did, but Travis was never in the conversation. Overall, obviously, they performed well in the playoffs, but was that due to the circumstances and energy of the atmosphere, or because Green waved his magic wand?

 

Secondly, I will say, and have already replied to someone questioning this idea - Green obviously had a respectable career, that I knew - but not anywhere what he thought it would be, considering he was a hot shot scorer in the WHL. 

 

And that is my entire idea behind my original thought... if people put you down enough, you start to believe it. 

 

So my point is, maybe it's still lingering within him. Perhaps in some indirect way, he's still holding onto that feeling and channeling it in a very subtle way, which affects the way that he coaches, especially certain players. 

 

I don't know. Do you?

Have you ever thought that perhaps Green was abducted by Aliens when he was young and was taken to another planet where he was held captive with really weird Green and Blue Sharks. And maybe he was returned to earth years later but had his memory wiped and now every time we where Green and Blue he is so traumatized he can't coach and reverts into a defensive shell because that's the only way he survived Aliens.

 

I don't know. Do you?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You bet.  Gretkzy's shot wasn't terrible, wasn't great either - Paul McLean is another very good player who had some decent success as a coach.   But for the most part, the best players haven't come close to equaling their success as a player - Robinson is a guy i'd welcome with open arms, from what i've read he's enjoyed the cup win as much as he did winning with MTL - like Quin a real players coach.    Deb posted an article in another thread when Pat Quin passed away... saying that the fear the players had wasn't from how he acted (for the most part), but because they loved the guy so much they would go through walls for him.   Personally that's the type of coach i'd love to have, not many guys like that at the moment.   Robinson for sure is one, and was also part of St. Louis cup team in an advisory role - top level guy.

 

As far systems go - Trotz currently sets the bar.   Just look at what he managed with NYI, after Tavares just left - reduced their goals against massively - 50% or so...with only a modest reduction in goals for.    Already taken them to the final four where they really had no business either - no partial media experts put Travis Green and Trotz on a mantle for last years playoff results.

 

I don't think TG is a bad coach or a great coach.   He's proven he can squeeze more out of our roster at times - and well as go the other way.    Curiously up until now, the losing streaks we've had under him mostly correspond with key injuries (Edler, Tanev, BB, Markstrom etc)....

 

I also think he's gained some capital from those 17 games - and because our schedule, lack of training camp/practice time etc for sure played a part in our first 12-15 games or so.   The last ten games we haven't been blown out (yet lol), all the games we've had a chance to win, and a lot of them minus empty net goals (which the teams done a good job of avoiding the last ten games or so too)...let's just say IF we had a full 82 game schedule there for sure would be time to dig out and make a push for the playoffs.

 

That said change is also a good thing, and maybe TG has met his expiry date this season.   Don't see much of any point in hiring a new coach before the seasons up unless an excellent candidate becomes available - and I can't see an excellent candidate available (sorry Julien, your a good experience NHL coach - but couldn't do much of anything with MTL so no thanks!). 

 

Odds are stacked against an extension.   But it's not a foregone conclusion either - if he ends up with a .650 or higher record the second half - don't be surprised at all to see him get one - i won't.   

Yeah I read that the reason why Robinson didn’t continue the head coach job, even though he was successful at it, was that he hated having to come down on players when they needed to be disciplined (as opposed to coaches who seemed to browbeat players ALL the time).  Here’s a video clip of his diplomacy in action...involving a player of the OPPOSITE team during his playing days:

 

Robinson cooled Tiger Williams by saying to him essentially on the ice “listen, I know the refs screwed you on that call but it’s just a game, how about we go fishing afterwards”.  Seriously!  That’s how he was able to de escalate the situation (as Tiger could get very emotional at time lol).

 

Great Hall of Fame player.  Even a better human being.  Nice guys don’t have to finish last.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Odd.]

If there aren't major changes to the team in the off-season, I don't know how much longer I'll be invested in this team. It seems like whatever they do, it's 1 step forward, 2 steps back. The bull$&!# has to end soon. 

[rychicken]

11 hours ago, Canucksince99 said:

 

Wonder how that would screw with a players mind. At the end of the day they’re people too. The same way you guys get pissed off they do too. Imagine playing for your hometown team, having a coach that for some reason treats you like $&!# even when you play good and having fans set up a gofundme to help the team trade you. 

cmon man

[-DLC-]

2 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

My thoughts on Travis Green and Jake Virtanen , If you take a wild horse and and whip it into submission thats what you will get a inattentive, submissive horse afraid to do anything and unsure of its place. Green has made Jake into what he is. The team as well as Jake is molded by Green. Fire Green and you have a different Team and a different Jake. If Benning cant see this then he is truly not the man for the job.

Jake's young, likely a bit immature and enjoying life.  But, at some point, a career like this comes with sacrifices and it may be more that he just is trying to do both?  On ice, he seems unsure but that's where a guy with size and speed like he has can prove his coach wrong.  The same guy who isn't afraid to live life to the fullest and show up carrying the weight of that doesn't show signs of being scared of backlash.  It isn't consistent.

 

I like Jake and hope he pans out but I don't buy into "he's been beat up and broken down" stuff.  Nope.  I just feel like his hockey IQ isn't a natural and, with hard work, he could show his full potential.  Just may be that he's actually the reverse of what you're saying and too comfortable here.  Whatever the case, I'm in his corner.

[IBatch]

58 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah I read that the reason why Robinson didn’t continue the head coach job, even though he was successful at it, was that he hated having to come down on players when they needed to be disciplined (as opposed to coaches who seemed to browbeat players ALL the time).  Here’s a video clip of his diplomacy in action...involving a player of the OPPOSITE team during his playing days:

 

Robinson cooled Tiger Williams by saying to him essentially on the ice “listen, I know the refs screwed you on that call but it’s just a game, how about we go fishing afterwards”.  Seriously!  That’s how he was able to de escalate the situation (as Tiger could get very emotional at time lol).

 

Great Hall of Fame player.  Even a better human being.  Nice guys don’t have to finish last.

 

 

 

 

Robinson was an incredible player - his highlights stand up today,  one of the best defenseman ever to lace them up and only a few guys i'd pick ahead of him in a fantasy what if scenario.   The ultimate played coach - and a true leader in the locker room during his playing days.     What he had to do when he joined the team was absolutely daunting.   The Habs has struggled with the PHI flue for a couple of years - quite a few of their guys had been beaten badly in fights.   What did he do?  He methodically went through their entire lineup starting with Shultz and worked his way down.   Beat him badly and ended up becoming one of the NHLs most feared and respected fighters as a result.    And the PHI flu left the locker room....without him no dynasty period.   There were other very good teams around back then including PHI  - who the league hated at the time and couldn't wait to get a different team back on top.   Potvin was completely turning the NYI around, Boston was still a dominant force even the NYR had some omphf to them.   

 

That's leadership at the highest level.  Curiously Messier (who the league will never stop idolizing) did the same thing years later when the still great Habs drew EDM in the playoffs early in their development and Robinson started running their stars....threatened to two hand Robinson and knock his teeth out with his stick.   Both those things are considered key moments in both dynasties arrivals.   Robinson vs Potvin... hard to pick ... two of the best leaders that ever laced them up.  BTW id pick both ahead of Lidstrom, who's stock has gone way beyond reality both during his playing days (couldn't win a Norris until the old crop of guys were almost done, competing against just Gonchar, Rafaski for a decade good grief - a little Al Mac, as little Pronger and a little Niedermayer, who couldn't  beat the Leetches, Coffey's, Chelios in the 90's lol).....Robinson is a top five D all-time IMO, and for sure is a boon to any team he decides to bless his wisdom and experiences on - most recently St. Louis.  I'd welcome him with open arms in any role, including TG job in an instant.

 

Edit: As per the video.  Slow hockey right?  Wrong.   Just as fast as we see today.   Did you notice everyone finishing their checks?  I did.  Now they'd be called "hits"... NHL hockey has lost some of its soul. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by IBatch

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, BarnBurner said:

First of all, I always appreciate your input. 

 

However, Green was NOT the toast of the town. Me and my buddies were happy and thankful the Canucks went as far they did, but Travis was never in the conversation. Overall, obviously, they performed well in the playoffs, but was that due to the circumstances and energy of the atmosphere, or because Green waved his magic wand?

 

Secondly, I will say, and have already replied to someone questioning this idea - Green obviously had a respectable career, that I knew - but not anywhere what he thought it would be, considering he was a hot shot scorer in the WHL. 

 

And that is my entire idea behind my original thought... if people put you down enough, you start to believe it. 

 

So my point is, maybe it's still lingering within him. Perhaps in some indirect way, he's still holding onto that feeling and channeling it in a very subtle way, which affects the way that he coaches, especially certain players. 

 

I don't know. Do you?

I see your thinking and you could be right. Green had a couple of decent ppg years. Eventually he had to alter his game to stay in the NHL. Does that make him bitter or does it embrace the idea that a player has to have that awareness and flexibility? As you said we don’t know. 
 

Years ago we had my son’s Bantam team in Van for Provincials. Two of the coaches went to a lounge while I babysat? They end up meeting Rick Lee who was the Canuck coach at the time. They have a couple of drinks. Lee says bring the boys to the practice next day. Lee was a first class act and willing to talk coaching. Why am I telling this story? Not sure. Lee had a good NHL career but frustrated by the Laffer futility. His coaching time was almost up with Van. Lots of reason to blow my coaches off but he didn’t. 
 

Green played hockey in Trail before the WHL and had world champion SmokeEaters as coaches. Those guys were famous team players. I never heard stories of Green being a prima dona. I don’t know Travis on a personal basis but my family knows his family in Castlegar. Solid, down to earth, nice people. 

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Jake's young, likely a bit immature and enjoying life.  But, at some point, a career like this comes with sacrifices and it may be more that he just is trying to do both?  On ice, he seems unsure but that's where a guy with size and speed like he has can prove his coach wrong.  The same guy who isn't afraid to live life to the fullest and show up carrying the weight of that doesn't show signs of being scared of backlash.  It isn't consistent.

 

I like Jake and hope he pans out but I don't buy into "he's been beat up and broken down" stuff.  Nope.  I just feel like his hockey IQ isn't a natural and, with hard work, he could show his full potential.  Just may be that he's actually the reverse of what you're saying and too comfortable here.  Whatever the case, I'm in his corner.

If Jake worked really hard. And made mistakes I could deal with that. Sadly there's lots of times he just doesn't seem to know what he's doing out there. (Something that seems to have creeped into the entire team.) If he worked like Hoagy I doubt anyone would complain. He just doesn't have that drive. Heck right now if I was the coach.

Jake go to the net and park there. You are going to take some abuse. But you are going to get better chances in front of the net. And most likely get some garbage goals.