[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Winnterpeg Jets | March 1, 2021 | 5 p.m. PT | SNP, TVAS

[rychicken]

3+ hours after the end of the game and we are only on page 81 of a combined GDT/PGT.....

[Chicken.]

2 minutes ago, rychicken said:

3+ hours after the end of the game and we are only on page 81 of a combined GDT/PGT.....

Winning is boring ?  

 

Gotta recharge for tomorrow hopefully the Jets are even more tired

[Barefoot]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Are we still crying over those players?

 

Not signing Markstrom to that deal was the right move, I like Marky but I wouldn't give him 6x6 at almost age 31. He's 31 now. Not with a younger goaltender like Demko in the wings, who's showing this season that he's capable of being a difference maker for this team. 

 

Stecher walking wasn't a huge deal imo. He played with a lot of heart, was a fan fave, loved being here, played his guts out. But he struggled more come playoff time, Juolevi is an upgrade with likely both a higher ceiling and floor. 

 

Tanev played an entire season for the first time in his career last season, which was an anomaly. I wouldn't have given him that deal either, it's only a matter of time before he's hurt in Calgary. Appreciated him while he was here, we were better with him in the lineup than out of it, but I wouldn't give him 4x4.5m at almost age 31 when history tells you he'll be hurt for large portions of that tenure. 

 

Leivo was a depth piece who's not making much of an impact on a mediocre Flames club, nothing to see here. 

 

Toffoli's someone I'd like to have retained, but his loss is overblown. He was brought in when Boeser went down to help us make a playoff run, and while he was effective during the regular season it wasn't long before he went down himself. We beat Minnesota and St. Louis without him. That run was well worth the cost. When we brought him in it'd been forecasted that the cap would rise, if it had risen as anticipated we'd likely have retained him. 

 

Schmidt for a third was a good deal. Holtby on a two year deal as a safety valve for Demko wasn't a bad signing. Hamonic is an absolute win. 

 

Beagle's contract is fine for what he brings, and it's almost over. Roussel was an effective player during his first season here and came as advertised, he admittedly hasn't been the same since coming back from injury but that's hockey. Sutter's probably overpaid by maybe 1-1.5m, but he's an effective player for us and we should consider retaining him on a shorter, cheaper deal. 

 

Context matters, these guys were signed to insulate our young core as we were trying to emerge from the depth crater left by Gillis@co. 

Well said - context does matter and your analysis is right on each of those points. 

Also - the only reason Toffoli is killing it so well this year is because he's, ironically, feasted on the Canucks in those first 10-15 games when their team defence was atrocious - those were free goals from endless broken plays.  He'll settle down and normalize.  He's not Mike Bossy.

Also, Stecher unfortunately wasn't a good fit going forward with small Hughes, and Rathbone in their plans too, too many small.

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by BarefootBob

[-Vintage Canuck-]

5 minutes ago, rychicken said:

3+ hours after the end of the game and we are only on page 81 of a combined GDT/PGT.....

Yeah, the PGT was really quiet today.

[KelownaCanucksFan]

7 minutes ago, rychicken said:

3+ hours after the end of the game and we are only on page 81 of a combined GDT/PGT.....

We’re all in shock after what we just witnessed, the last month has been tough on all of us. 

[xereau]

3 minutes ago, KelownaCanucksFan said:

We’re all in shock after what we just witnessed, the last month has been tough on all of us. 

For whatever reason the Canucks have the Jets' number.

 

I'm not taking anything for granted with this squad.

 

It was a really good team effort though.

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Are we still crying over those players?

 

Not signing Markstrom to that deal was the right move, I like Marky but I wouldn't give him 6x6 at almost age 31. He's 31 now. Not with a younger goaltender like Demko in the wings, who's showing this season that he's capable of being a difference maker for this team. 

 

Stecher walking wasn't a huge deal imo. He played with a lot of heart, was a fan fave, loved being here, played his guts out. But he struggled more come playoff time, Juolevi is an upgrade with likely both a higher ceiling and floor. 

 

Tanev played an entire season for the first time in his career last season, which was an anomaly. I wouldn't have given him that deal either, it's only a matter of time before he's hurt in Calgary. Appreciated him while he was here, we were better with him in the lineup than out of it, but I wouldn't give him 4x4.5m at almost age 31 when history tells you he'll be hurt for large portions of that tenure. 

 

Leivo was a depth piece who's not making much of an impact on a mediocre Flames club, nothing to see here. 

 

Toffoli's someone I'd like to have retained, but his loss is overblown. He was brought in when Boeser went down to help us make a playoff run, and while he was effective during the regular season it wasn't long before he went down himself. We beat Minnesota and St. Louis without him. That run was well worth the cost. When we brought him in it'd been forecasted that the cap would rise, if it had risen as anticipated we'd likely have retained him. 

 

Schmidt for a third was a good deal. Holtby on a two year deal as a safety valve for Demko wasn't a bad signing. Hamonic is an absolute win. 

 

Beagle's contract is fine for what he brings, and it's almost over. Roussel was an effective player during his first season here and came as advertised, he admittedly hasn't been the same since coming back from injury but that's hockey. Sutter's probably overpaid by maybe 1-1.5m, but he's an effective player for us and we should consider retaining him on a shorter, cheaper deal. 

 

Context matters, these guys were signed to insulate our young core as we were trying to emerge from the depth crater left by Gillis@co. 

Ditto; I still hope JB gets to win with his core cause despite this years struggle (perhaps mostly) due to his past mistake(s) the team is still trending in the right direction.  Only with hindsight, can most of those moves be criticize but with context the reasoning behind those same moves made sense at the time - just too much term.  As for the TT trade, it was also hindsight that made the trade unnecessary but due to the circumstances (at the time), the high cost paid made sense cause Aquaman & JB wanted to be in the playoffs at all cost: Aquaman for the revenue and JB to give the core a playoff experience for there development.  Although, watching the team advance and take Vegas to game 7 almost made the high acquisition cost worth it - still really disappointed losing Madden but I understand; moving on.

 

If this year is a wash, I hope the staff would play more of the rookies and let most/all of the FA's walk at the end of the year or offer some of them one year take it or leave it deals.  Time to give there minutes to the prospects and replenish the prospect cupboard; JB will have alot of important decision(s) in this comming offsessobln (hopefully, he wont be so generous with the terms).

Edited March 2, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Mrwipeout]

Well its monday and some of us worked nightshift so....no chance to see a game where they play solid for once. Demko had some nice saves i noticed, i hope he can maintain this level or we will be on another loosing streak soon again. Round 2 tomorrow....lets hope Jets didnt save fuel and got tired....

[Law of Goalies]

3 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah time to give the prospects a legit chance and replenish the prospect cupboard. Also, as the vets move out, the team identity and culture will change as well to reflect the new core (when Edler goes, Bo will be the last hold over from the Sedins Era).

Umm, Jake played with them too

[ShawnAntoski]

1 minute ago, Law of Goalies said:

Umm, Jake played with them too

Yeah, I was made aware of this already - thanks and will edit my post...

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

I like Marky but I wouldn't give him 6x6 at almost age 31. He's 31 now.  

 

Stecher walking wasn't a huge deal imo. Juolevi is an upgrade with likely both a higher ceiling and floor. 

 

Tanev I wouldn't give him 4x4.5m at almost age 31 

 

Leivo was a depth piece who's not making much of an impact

 

Toffoli We beat Minnesota and St. Louis without him. forecasted that the cap would rise, if it had risen as anticipated we'd likely have retained him. 

 

Schmidt for a third was a good deal. Holtby on a two year deal as a safety valve for Demko wasn't a bad signing. Hamonic is an absolute win. 

 

Beagle's

Roussel

Sutter's  we should consider retaining him on a shorter, cheaper deal. 

 

You make alot of great points.

 

No doubt losing Markstrom is a massive step backward in goal, but it's short term pain for long term gain. JB would've gotten killed for that contract, and for good reason. Plus Demko looks good.

 

Likewise with Tanev. I'd have done a 2 year deal, maybe 3, but 4 is simply too long. Having him & Schmidt would've been great, but again - short term pain for long term gain.

 

While Juolevi is the guy coming into the lineup, it's actually Fantenberg's spot he's replacing, not Stecher. That spot - alongside Edler or 3rd pair - is being filled by Schmidt/Myers. Loved Stech's compete but I have no problems with that. 

 

Leivo is actually a guy we should've kept IMO. Hasn't been great in Calgary, but he was a good fit here. Not the end of the world though. 

 

Toffoli is the toughest one. He's a victim of circumstance & prior cap mis-management. 

 

Hamonic & Holtby are decent replacements. In hindsight maybe they should've went cheaper on a backup goalie, let Jake walk, and re-signed Toff. But it would've been a hard risk to take not having a capable starter/1B.

 

We've been down the Beagle/Sutter road before, Gaudette having a poor year (and Sutter having a good year) is justifying the redundancy of having both.

 

Roussel is pretty disappointing. Great 1st year, but just not able to regain form. Maybe next year we can retain 50% & deal him to a contender. Hopefully. 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

You seem to argue with me for sake of arguing. If I say the sky is blue you will probably chime in to say it is not. You really think if we had cap space we would give up all those players? especially Toffoli who we gave up a 2nd round draft pick and Madden for. Please dont tell me or give me reasons to suggest it was a good idea to give up Toffoli and Tanev. Heck Benning would have signed Marky too if we had lots of cap room. This is the same guy who gave Roussel and Beagle 3 million and Myers 6 million. Take off the rose colored glasses and look around other forums and see what people think of our off season instead of praising Benning at every turn.

Arguing for the sake of arguing? Absolutely not. But yeah, if you're going to bring up players we let go I'm going to respond with context regarding said players. Wanna talk bad cap management? Signing Markstrom to his current deal would have been just that, and while there are those who'd certainly disagree I figure Tanev would have been bad cap management as well. You've gone on and on about Edler this evening, and how we should walk away from older vets. Why bother signing players like Marky and Tanev if they're just going to age, gradually decline, and become more older vets? 

 

The price paid for Toffoli contributed to winning almost three playoff rounds, that's a price most Canucks fans would happily pay again. We hadn't gotten that far since our cup run. Whining over a second round pick and a skilled but undersized prospect who's unlikely to make an impact at the NHL level is silly. 

 

Don't give you takes that vary from your own? If you present opinions here you're going to get responses, If you want an echo chamber you're in the wrong forum. 

 

Roussel was value when he was signed, go back and look at the numbers he put up in Dallas and then the numbers he put up in his first season here. He's not that player now, but he was when we signed him. 3m as a ufa wasn't bad. Myers is maybe 1m overpaid, but I think he's fair value for a top 4 right handed D. RD will always be coveted around the league. 

 

Rose covered glasses? Just because I don't jump at every opportunity to bash Benning doesn't mean I'm incapable of recognizing mistakes that he's made. I haven't praised him at all, I've given you reasoning regarding each signing and each player we let walk, that isn't praise. You don't have to agree with any of it, but that's also part of the nature of engaging on forums. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

It would be a shame to lose Tryamkins rights without even giving it another shot.

 

Even if he's only a bottom pair guy for the first while, it's worth it w/ his size & skating ability.

The worst that can happen is he doesn't work out, but if he never gets a shot it'll always remain a "what if". Kind of like how we used to pine for Koltsov. 

1 hour ago, CptCanuck16 said:

I'd like to see him get his hundredth goal. He's been at 99 forever. Lol

Yeah, he's been due for a while hasn't he? 

1 hour ago, canuktravella said:

 im not worried blut tryamkin he wil come in and play hard and clear the crease and be like dana murzyn or willie mitchell was for us. we havent had a guy like that on our d corp since   maybe bieska but hes wasnt as big as thoughs to 

Yeah, he's not a player I expect a ton of offense out of but he can certainly do the things you've mentioned. But that being said, he skates well and has good puck skills, maybe he'll surprise? 

49 minutes ago, BarefootBob said:

Well said - context does matter and your analysis is right on each of those points. 

Also - the only reason Toffoli is killing it so well this year is because he's, ironically, feasted on the Canucks in those first 10-15 games when their team defence was atrocious - those were free goals from endless broken plays.  He'll settle down and normalize.  He's not Mike Bossy.

Also, Stecher unfortunately wasn't a good fit going forward with small Hughes, and Rathbone in their plans too, too many small.

 

Tofu's numbers are def inflated by the games against us. The reality is that hockey fans being hockey fans, there was always going to be a portion of the Canucks fanbase wringing their hands if Tofu went on to have success elsewhere. It was just made worse by the fact that he played well against us of all teams. He admittedly hasn't done a ton offensively during games that haven't been against us. 

 

I would have liked to have retained him, but it just didn't work out that way. 

 

Agreed on Stecher, I really liked him. Heart of a lion, always gave his all. But yeah, this team can only carry so many smaller D. 

40 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Ditto; I still hope JB gets to win with his core cause despite this years struggle (perhaps mostly) due to his past mistake(s) the team is still trending in the right direction.  Only with hindsight, can most of those moves be criticize but with context the reasoning behind those same moves made sense at the time - just too much term.  As for the TT trade, it was also hindsight that made the trade unnecessary but due to the circumstances (at the time), the high cost paid made sense cause Aquaman & JB wanted to be in the playoffs at all cost: Aquaman for the revenue and JB to give the core a playoff experience for there development.  Although, watching the team advance and take Vegas to game 7 almost made the high acquisition cost worth it - still really disappointed losing Madden but I understand; moving on.

 

If this year is a wash, I hope the staff would play more of the rookies and let most/all of the FA's walk at the end of the year or offer some of them one year take it or leave it deals.  Time to give there minutes to the prospects and replenish the prospect cupboard; JB will have alot of important decision(s) in this comming offsessobln (hopefully, he wont be so generous with the terms).

It's easy to criticize contracts in hindsight, that's the beauty and curse of hindsight. If we could we'd go back and never sign Loui, but nobody in the hockey world saw him falling off as hard as he had. He had a history of being very productive in Dallas, and performed at a slightly lesser rate in Boston but still produced. People pointed at his international play with the twins, figured he'd be a great fit. Obviously it hasn't worked out that way, but to point back at his contract as if it was a no brainer not to sign him at the time is silly. 

 

I was more miffed by the second round pick tbh, I don't think Madden will amount to much of anything. But yeah, that's a price I'd happily pay again. 

 

I'm not sure what to expect tbh. Pearson's made it known he'd like to stay, but I could see him shipped out if there's a good offer. Maybe Benn too, or even Sutter. Though I'm honestly okay with the idea of extending Sutter at a lesser rate on a short term deal, he's a solid 3 who'd likely have better numbers if our bottom six could contribute more offensively. Gaudette and Jake taking such big steps back really hurt us when it comes to depth scoring, losing Motte to injury didn't help either given the start he had. I think you've gotta look at Sutter in that context. 

16 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

You make alot of great points.

 

No doubt losing Markstrom is a massive step backward in goal, but it's short term pain for long term gain. JB would've gotten killed for that contract, and for good reason. Plus Demko looks good.

 

Likewise with Tanev. I'd have done a 2 year deal, maybe 3, but 4 is simply too long. Having him & Schmidt would've been great, but again - short term pain for long term gain.

 

While Juolevi is the guy coming into the lineup, it's actually Fantenberg's spot he's replacing, not Stecher. That spot - alongside Edler or 3rd pair - is being filled by Schmidt/Myers. Loved Stech's compete but I have no problems with that. 

 

Leivo is actually a guy we should've kept IMO. Hasn't been great in Calgary, but he was a good fit here. Not the end of the world though. 

 

Toffoli is the toughest one. He's a victim of circumstance & prior cap mis-management. 

 

Hamonic & Holtby are decent replacements. In hindsight maybe they should've went cheaper on a backup goalie, let Jake walk, and re-signed Toff. But it would've been a hard risk to take not having a capable starter/1B.

 

We've been down the Beagle/Sutter road before, Gaudette having a poor year (and Sutter having a good year) is justifying the redundancy of having both.

 

Roussel is pretty disappointing. Great 1st year, but just not able to regain form. Maybe next year we can retain 50% & deal him to a contender. Hopefully. 

 

Marky to Demko is a step back, certainly, though Demko's further along at his age than Marky was. People forget how we were able to sneak Marky down to Utica and basically help him rebuild his game, he didn't come to Vancouver as the goaltender we let walk. Would we be in a playoff race with Marky in net? Probably not if he had to face the same defensive breakdowns Holtby and Demko suffered behind earlier in the season. 

 

If the deal for Tanev was shorter I'd have happily welcomed it, but four was too much. Too much commitment to a guy who's been historically unable to stay healthy. 

 

And fair, I forgot about Fanta tbh. Shame, I was hoping he'd find NHL work as he was a good depth piece. His playoff performance impressed me. 

 

I was hoping we'd retain Leivo tbh, but he was a depth piece. A depth piece that worked here, but a depth piece nonetheless. I don't see him as much of a loss. 

 

Agreed on Tofu. It's important to view contracts through the context in which they were signed, but that doesn't change the fact that having too much bloat in our bottom six got in the way of retaining Toffoli. I mean, all it'd take is not having one Loui Eriksson, but nobody predicted he'd fall off as hard as he did. Re-upping Jake hasn't looked great either, I thought he might take a step back but I didn't think it'd be quite this big. Same goes for Gaudette, though I think he'll be able to work through it. Getting a couple points against the Jets might help. 

 

I was really hoping we'd sign Holtby and was happy when we did, I think he's been pretty solid for the most part. It's just.. earlier on in the season our defense was in shambles. I mean, that happened against Edmonton too. We need better coaching and systems, our players are better than they showed early on. I view Holtby's contract as being paid for the luxury of having him as an expansion available goaltender, I thought going out and grabbing a guy who's won just about everything a goaltender can win at the NHL level would be good for Demko. And odds are, behind the scenes, it has been. Hamonic was a steal, I really hope he plays well during the rest of the season and justifies us trying to retain him. 

 

Sutter's doing well, Beagle's doing what you'd expect Beagle to be doing. Gaud taking a step back hurts, but I'm not sure he's got a future here as a center. Maybe he's better off sticking to wing? 

 

Rouss is disappointing, no doubt. He was full value during his first season, carried right over with his Dallas level production and play. Hasn't been the same since coming back from that knee injury, but that's a tough injury for any player to come back from. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. He could probably be moved at 50%, the expectations go down with the price. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, rychicken said:

3+ hours after the end of the game and we are only on page 81 of a combined GDT/PGT.....

WE WANT THE CUP

 

WE WANT THE CUP

 

WE WANT THE CUP

 

[Bell]

My 70 year old dad said tonight EP40 is the best player this franchise has ever had.  He eats chit thru a straw now and likes bubbles but he might have a point.

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, Bell said:

My 70 year old dad said tonight EP40 is the best player this franchise has ever had.  He eats chit thru a straw now and likes bubbles but he might have a point.

I luv your dad !!! 

 

He reminds me of mine, also 70, loves chit and bubbles.

 

WE WON !!!

Edited March 2, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[FaninMex]

I just finished the game and see only 82 pages. The usual trolls must have nothing to say. I should go back and check.

[Bell]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I luv your dad !!! 

 

He reminds me of mine, also 70, loves chit and bubbles.

When EP picks up the puck he literally tears up.

[Dats hockey]

Good thing all these game are worth 4 points. Queue up the next 30 for a winning streak.

[Rush17]

1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Yeah, the PGT was really quiet today.

To be honest. I only watched the first period. I couldn't suffer another comeback defeat.

 

Might watch more next game. Will see.