Calgary/Vancouver Evaluation - updated 3/29/21 - CAL TIED WITH VAN

[Dazzle]

 Update: 3/29/21 - So Calgary has essentially squandered whatever games in hand they had. Montreal has six games in hand, which is ridiculous.

Safe to say Tanev/Markstrom wasn't that big of a loss short term, even though Tanev/Markstrom aren't the reasons for CAL's collapse. Just comes to show you that you can't buy your way out of a decline.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:52 PM, NickTheGreek said:

Of course he has

 

Benning needs to be canned ASAP. What an absolutely terrible GM

 

Decent scout sure, but GM? He's a hack

 

On 1/22/2021 at 1:19 AM, iinatcc said:

that's around 10% of the season already. I think it's a pretty good sample set of what the team is for better (Calgary) or worse (Vancouver)

This is just a sample of the opinions that don't look very smart after about a month.

Notice where Montreal and Calgary stand - marginally above us, despite our 'major' setback this offseason. Long term, letting Tanev/Markstrom go was the right decision. Whoever the next GM is, they need to get rid of the current coaching staff and let the contracts expire so the team can start relatively fresh.
 

Unlike Montreal and Calgary,  we don't have their long-term contracts. So much for them being "cup contenders".

 

Benning's made plenty of mistakes, such as keeping on WD and TG (and staff). This roster's a lot better than what these coaches are getting out of.

Stale systems, mind-numbing roster decisions, and no adaptation.

Once we get a set of proven NHL coaches, I'm sure this team will do a lot better next year.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Dazzle

[Shirotashi]

20 less goals against say hi.

[Dazzle]

3 minutes ago, Shirotashi said:

20 less goals against say hi.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Despite this, they're only 2 points ahead, with 3 games in hand. What a massive improvement there Shiro. They're doing just as bad as we are!

 

Look at our offence - it's comparable to the Jets. Our team defence and/or coaching is the issue.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Dazzle

[Coconuts]

Calgary will go as far as Markstrom can take them over the duration of his contract, but despite their top players being in their prime they look like a team in no man's land. I'm glad we didn't hand out those contracts to Marky and Tanev, despite appreciating their play as Canucks. 

 

I do believe this roster has more to give, but the current coaching staff won't get it out of them. Here's hoping we enter next season with new coaching staff. 

1 minute ago, Shirotashi said:

20 less goals against say hi.

And yet Calgary's scored even less than Ottawa. Our defense was in shambles to begin the season, despite looking solid on paper. Some of it's on the players, but some of it's also on the coaching staff.

[Shirotashi]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Despite this, they're only 2 points ahead, with 3 games in hand. What a massive improvement there Shiro. They're doing just as bad as we are!

3 games in hand say hi.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Shirotashi said:

3 games in hand say hi.

Big whopping deal. Very insignificant.

[-AJ-]

I'm definitely not on the fire Benning train or even the fire Green train, but to claim we're close to Calgary and Montreal (especially Montreal) is ridiculous. We have played three more games than the Flames and five more than the Canadiens. Given the relatively low number of games, that makes a huge difference.

 

For context:

 

If Montreal lost the next seven games straight and we won our next two games, they would still be above us and with an equal number of games.

Before:

Canucks 9-15-2: 20 points - 26 games

Canadiens: 10-6-5: 25 points - 21 games

 

After:

Canucks (2 game win streak): 11-15-2: 24 points - 28 games

Canadiens (7 game losing streak): 10-13-5: 25 points - 28 games

 

Calgary is a bit closer, but we can play the same game. If the Flames were to go on a 3-game losing streak from today on out and we were to win our next game, we would just be tied. Games played matters and those who ignore it are viewing our team as far better than it is.

[Dazzle]

6 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'm definitely not on the fire Benning train or even the fire Green train, but to claim we're close to Calgary and Montreal (especially Montreal) is ridiculous. We have played three more games than the Flames and five more than the Canadiens. Given the relatively low number of games, that makes a huge difference.

 

For context:

 

If Montreal lost the next seven games straight and we won our next two games, they would still be above us and with an equal number of games.

Before:

Canucks 9-15-2: 20 points - 26 games

Canadiens: 10-6-5: 25 points - 21 games

 

After:

Canucks (2 game win streak): 11-15-2: 24 points - 28 games

Canadiens (7 game losing streak): 10-13-5: 25 points - 28 games

 

Calgary is a bit closer, but we can play the same game. If the Flames were to go on a 3-game losing streak from today on out and we were to win our next game, we would just be tied. Games played matters and those who ignore it are viewing our team as far better than it is.

3 games won, at most, gives you 6 points. Hardly enough anyone to say Calgary had a 'massive' improved, let alone say they are cup contenders. This is my point of the post.

 

To be clear, all three teams are trending downward. Montreal just fired all their staff - and Calgary, well, they have Tanev and Markstrom for the next little bit. If things are to play out normally, minus these big losing streaks, I don't think any of these teams are playoff bound.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Dazzle
Grammar

[-AJ-]

Just now, Dazzle said:

3 games won, at most, gives you 6 points. Hardly enough to really consider this to be a 'massive' improvement, let alone cup contender status. This is my point of the post.

Based on how the season has gone so far, I would agree that the Flames have not "massively improved". Frankly, they've been much worse this year than last year. The Canadiens do seem notably improved this year, though I wouldn't say that's a Benning thing. The Toffoli lamenting is far overplayed by many, I think.

[AV.]

What are we supposed to learn from this?  Better yet, why does any of this matter?

 

We've played the most games and are only marginally better than one of the worst teams (Ottawa) in the NHL of the last 3 years.  The season isn't suddenly better or not as bad because of Geoff Ward being a nothing coach and not winning games with Calgary.

 

The season is done.  It's been done since game 7 of the season.  If Jim and John have any iota of competence, they'll start moving out UFAs after this weekend.  Even then, I don't trust them to get adequate returns.

[Ghostsof1915]

Frankly I expected the team to take a step back. But I didn't think it would be this discombobulated. 

I don't see any way Green and the assistants get renewed. Ian Clark stays and maybe Chris Higgins. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's tweeks at the front office. Weisbrod I can't see staying. 

I would also say all the professional scouts for the exception of Lindgren get turfed. 

 

Amateur scouting seems to be fine. It's the UFA's that seem to be a problem.

 

If the team struggles out of the gate, next season (1/4 mark) then I can see a GM change.

Benning's used about 8 of his nine lives. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Ghostsof1915

[fanfor42]

Who has the brighter future ?  Vancouver has a great young core, several pieces coming, several more in the minors, a likely top ten pick coming and big money freeing up.

 

I like this team's chances in the next couple years versus stale franchises like Calgary or whacky Mtl.

 

Having said that I think Green loses his job this off season and I think that is the right decision.

 

I am also looking forward to returning to the traditional division and conference formats.  We will have 3 cali teams plus calgary in our division which gives us a real good chance at playoffs next year and for a few to come.

Edited March 4, 2021 by fanfor42

[AV.]

Just now, fanfor42 said:

Who has the brighter future ?  Vancouver has a great young core, several pieces coming, several more in the minors, a likely top ten pick coming and big money freeing up.

 

I like this team's chances in the next couple years versus stale franchises like Calgary or whacky Mtl.

Perhaps for Calgary but I would't turn my nose up at some of the young pieces Montreal has.

[ABNuck]

20% of the top scorers in the NHL so far this year play for the Canucks

tied 8th - Boeser

tied 15th - Hughes

tied 21st - Pettersson / Miller

 

Winnipeg has another 20% (4 players)...no other team has more than 2...most have none.

 

We certainly can score...we can't seem to defend.

[Dazzle]

29 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

What are we supposed to learn from this?  Better yet, why does any of this matter?

 

We've played the most games and are only marginally better than one of the worst teams (Ottawa) in the NHL of the last 3 years.  The season isn't suddenly better or not as bad because of Geoff Ward being a nothing coach and not winning games with Calgary.

 

The season is done.  It's been done since game 7 of the season.  If Jim and John have any iota of competence, they'll start moving out UFAs after this weekend.  Even then, I don't trust them to get adequate returns.

Ah Alain Vigneault. This is significant...

By the words "not directly", you're acknowledging that you thought Calgary was a cup contender. LOL. Not surprised that you're doubling down like a certain other poster does, starts with a P ends with a Vost - and Kanucks25.

 

Just admit it - a whole bunch of ppl like yourself were wrong about Calgary.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 AM, Alain Vigneault said:

Well, not directly.  He has, however, turned his own franchise into a mediocre team bunch of sucks.

 

Quite a superpower if you ask me.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Dazzle

[canuktravella]

 flames are almost as bad as us but they have 10.5 mill cap locked up with tanev for 3.5 yrs and  marky 5.5 yrs  ouch  thats bad 

[Dazzle]

Just now, canuktravella said:

 flames are almost as bad as us but they have 10.5 mill cap locked up with tanev for 3.5 yrs and  marky 5.5 yrs  ouch  thats bad 

This is exactly it, and people have been talking about Sutter and Roussell being signed for too long - yet they were under 30 when signed.

 

The amount of hypocrisy in the fanbase is amusing. Bashing a GM for not committing long term money, but bashing the same GM for long term contracts that anchor a roster.

[Dazzle]

17 minutes ago, ABNuck said:

20% of the top scorers in the NHL so far this year play for the Canucks

tied 8th - Boeser

tied 15th - Hughes

tied 21st - Pettersson / Miller

 

Winnipeg has another 20% (4 players)...no other team has more than 2...most have none.

 

We certainly can score...we can't seem to defend.

This is an issue with the coaching, which includes Baumer.

 

Willie Desjardins' coaching career

 

VAN total		246	109	110	27	245		2	4	.333

 

Travis Green

 

Total		233	102	103	28			10	7	.588	1 playoff appearance

 

Pretty mediocre record for TG, Almost identical, minus the much higher win percentage, yet having a much better roster than what WD ever had for the most part.

No more rookie coaches please!

 

IMO, I think Benning kept these rookie coaches as a kind of scapegoat for himself. It's still his fault though for keeping them as long as he did.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Dazzle

[AV.]

13 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Ah Alain Vigneault. This is significant...

By the words "not directly", you're acknowledging that you thought Calgary was a cup contender. LOL. Not surprised that you're doubling down like a certain other poster does, starts with a P ends with a Vost - and Kanucks25.

 

Just admit it - a whole bunch of ppl like yourself were wrong about Calgary.

 

Why did you quote something I said from 2 months ago?  It's even more weird because it's clearly out of context because I was talking about Benning, not Treliving...lol

 

Also, what exactly are people supposed to be wrong about?  Nobody (at least not me) was saying Calgary was going to be a superpower in this division but rather a playoff team.  With 3 games and 2 games in hand on the teams below them, they could still yet make the playoffs.

[AV.]

Benning bros have well and truly lost it.  Lmao.

 

This thread is pure comedy.