What is your assessment of our coaches ?

[Toyotasfan]

I think I can guess how this goes .

[4petesake]

16 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

I think I can guess how this goes .

Assuming you have candidates in mind, Baumgartner and Brown (in that order) go now. If the team shows signs of improvement you can decide on Green in the off-season. Little or no improvement and Green has to go. Improve a lot and you can offer Green 2 years.if you make no improvement and no changes before the end of the year and Benning tries to re-sign Green then he’s got to go too.

[linden17]

If we do make a coaching change in the off season we better damn not go the rookie route again. I want someone who’s a name. Someone with history .Someone with a history of winning

[buddhahoodlum]

34 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

Assuming you have candidates in mind, Baumgartner and Brown (in that order) go now. If the team shows signs of improvement you can decide on Green in the off-season. Little or no improvement and Green has to go. Improve a lot and you can offer Green 2 years.if you make no improvement and no changes before the end of the year and Benning tries to re-sign Green then he’s got to go too.

I was going to say pretty much this. 100%. 

[Zhukini]

Keep the coach get rid of the one higher up

[Dumb Nuck]

Quadruple F-

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, 4petesake said:

Assuming you have candidates in mind, Baumgartner and Brown (in that order) go now.

Even if you don't have candidates in mind.  Going without a coach does less damage than our 2 braindead assistants are doing right now.  Baumgartner is unfit to coach a beer league team.

[4petesake]

21 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Even if you don't have candidates in mind.  Going without a coach does less damage than our 2 braindead assistants are doing right now.  Baumgartner is unfit to coach a beer league team.

Good point.

[RU SERIOUS]

Where's the option to get rid of JB and the option to have AQUA-LINI forced to sell the team to owners that actually want to win and wont stick their noses in things all the time.   (Just ask Trevor about that)

[DownUndaCanuck]

Ok so in all honesty, we really have to look at how they've each done and what they're all responsible, because it hasn't been all bad:

 

1) Travis Green - as our head coach it's his job to get the boys fired up, ready to play and it's mainly his tactics and systems that governs what we do. Last season it was brilliant, we had the right balance of offence, risk taking and defence. For some reason this year it's been off - we've looked far too aggressive, pinching too much and leaking too many odd-man rushes that we didn't last season. Even last year we were bad defensively but Marky made Green look good as most good goaltenders do but Green doesn't have that luxury now so he's being exposed.

 

More than just that, it's his job to decide on lines, minutes and get the young kids playing well. For me, he gives the kids too much of a free reign and a long leash - he's admitted he just lets Hughes and Pettersson free-wheel and play how they like offensively. I think he needs to reel them in a bit, get them playing solid defence first rather than just all offence because we see it in Hughes and his sloppy defensive play this year that's gotten away from him. Last year he was more in check, playing a better all-around game whereas this year he's just forgotten about his defensive responsibilities.

 

On the whole, all we see isn't Green's fault but a lot of it is. He's stubborn like most coaches, has barely changed the lineup all season despite us being terrible and hasn't changed the system but is just trying to force the players to accept it. When we executed the system well last season we were unstoppable, could beat any team in the league. When we've executed it this season we sometimes get away with a tight game but it's nowhere near close, and we haven't executed well all season long.

 

For me, there are better coaches out there right now, especially Gallant, who could take this team to the next level. We've suffered with AHL coaches for years after AV, it's time to get back into the NHL-calibre coach fold.

 

2) Baumgartner - he's the defensive coach of course and has turned this what-should-be top-10 NHL defence into an absolute mess. When you look at the players, they're all having individual success and are top defenders close to or in their prime. Edler is still a stable 20 minute defenceman and (just watch) if he gets traded, he slots into any Cup-contending team's top-4 (if not top-2 for some teams), and is one of the best PKers in the league. Myers is in his prime right now, having a stand-out year, scoring at a 40 point pace and playing well physically, defensively and on the PK. Another 20-22 minute defenceman and top-4 guy on any NHL team. Schmidt has regressed, but I find it hard to believe that it's his fault. Yes, he's moved into a new system quickly with no real training camp, but this is a guy regarded as a top-2 defenceman on 2 very deep teams (Washington and Vegas) playing on their top pairings, and he could score and defend. He just hasn't fitted in well so far but is still a top-4 guy on any NHL team. Then you've got Hamonic who is playing incredibly (for his price tag), around 18-20 minutes a night and IMO a top-4 guy on just about any NHL team. Benn and Juolevi are playing exceptionally well too, 3rd pairing defencemen on any team. Our PK is thriving, has been top-10 most of the season, and yes our goalies haven't been great, but that's more of a reflection of the quality of chances we've haemorrhaged rather than their actual performance (only a few bad goals by Holtby really). Hughes has been bad defensively but then look at his offensive numbers...

 

On the whole, Baumer has found a way to take 6-7 great defencemen and turn them into slop, one of the worst group defensive units in the game. That is remarkable. They're lost out there and it's not just the defencemen, its their communication with the forwards and 5-man unit defending. Whether that's Baumgartner's job or someone else's, the team defence is atrocious. It's not a personnel problem on the ice, it's our system off the ice and I think this is partly Green's fault too. For me, Baumgartner has to go - another inexperienced coach just put into a role and he's getting feasted on by the best forwards in the league on a nightly basis with no answer. It's not a learning experience anymore, we're just getting bullied by McDavid and Matthews.

 

To his credit, something Baumer has done well is the PK because that's often been top-10 in the league. The structure has been great but I think the PK is more a credit to the players, we've got some of the best forward PKers in the league and then look at the veteran defencemen on the ice, the goalies haven't had to do much. This is what makes our 5-on-5 defence so puzzling but it's clearly more of a whole-unit issue, because the players themselves excel on the PK defensively. Often we're getting victimized on the rush which doesn't happen much on the PK and Green and Baumer need to sort that out, but IMO a lot of it comes from our over-zealous offensive pinching and aggression that leads to dreadful odd-man rushes the other way that we don't have the capacity to defend.

 

3) Newell Brown - Obviously he's an "assistant" but his main job is the PP. We were at the top of the league last season in the PP and that was before Toffoli even arrived so it's not all his departure that's lead to this big drop. Yes, Miller hasn't been good but all the other players are very similar and now even Petey is a point per game in his last 20. We're 20th in the league (I believe even worse on net PP%) despite minimal personnel change/quality which tells you it's a structure problem. If anything, Hughes and Boeser are better offensively and we're still dreadful, and worst of all look at all those SHG against. Brown has had his time with this group, it's time to see what someone else can do with the quality we have because I'm sure this is a top-10 if not top-5 PP in the NHL.

 

4) Seward and King - don't know much about what these assistants do but it's clearly to help Green out and they're not doing a very good job. To their credit, we've been stronger in the last few weeks so maybe that's a reflection of their analytics improving or our players playing their system better, but I think they come and go with Green and Baumer.

 

5) Higgins - his main job is skills and has probably taken over faceoffs and other little bits and pieces, which to be fair our players on an individual basis excel at. No need to remove Higgins, this team is somehow still top in faceoffs in the league and individually, the players make good passes/shots/fights along the boards, it's more as a group that they struggle.

 

6) Ian Clark - one of the best goalie coaches in the world, he isn't going anywhere and should be getting paid big bucks because without him the likes of Luongo, Markstrom and now Demko would be all rubbish. He's taken them all to another level.

 

TL;DR - Green, Baumer and his assistants can all go, keep Higgins and Clark around.

 

Sadly I don't think JB is going to do any of that.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

[JustABandwagoner]

3 hours ago, linden17 said:

If we do make a coaching change in the off season we better damn not go the rookie route again. I want someone who’s a name. Someone with history .Someone with a history of winning

I had a dream where we hired 

 

GM: LUUUUUUU

Head Coach: AV

Assistant Coach: Burrows + Malhotra 

President of Media Operations: Kevin Bieksa 

[smithers joe]

my only pet peeve is the players inability to pass and receive a pass, efficiently and safely. is that the players fault or the coaches fault. like when they brought manny in to work on face offs, i'ld like to see paul reinhart hired to teach these guys how to be more in control of the puck.

anyone that saw reinhart play, will know what i mean. paul was a magician with the puck. if this is the coaches fault, than get new ones. if it is the players inability, than move them. i hate watching the give aways, game after game. who's to blame? i don't know. i'ld like to know what reinhart thinks about that?

Edited March 6, 2021 by smithers joe

[erkayloomeh]

I believe head coach should be responsible for his assistants. 

Fire the head coach and leave it up to the new one who his assistants should be. 

I dont think management should be firing assistants.  

So, fire Travis 

[Cromeslab]

Do we really need this thread,it gets brought up ad nauseam every GDT 

[JM_]

Could be worse, should be better. 

 

I voted "see where the season goes' because I don't know what the alternative is available to us. All I know right now is Babcock, Gallant and Julien are out there... I'd really like to see an assessment of Gallant and why he'd be a good fit, not thrilled about the other two. 

 

[CanucksJay]

The main issue with the Canucks is

1)forwards break out too early in our zone leaving d-men handcuffed and turning pucks over

2) d-men pinching with no Forwards backing up. It happens mostly to Schmidt and Hughes (our top 2 offense minded forwards) 

 

The players have stated time and time again that they play their best when they play as a 5 man unit which means they know what they are supposed to do.

 

Problem is, when they are not doing that and leading to turnovers and goals against, where is the accountability? 

[combover]

Think it time to clean house.

Fire management then coaching. The last day of the season Jim and his staff should be fired. 

start fresh.
 

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

The main issue with the Canucks is

1)forwards break out too early in our zone leaving d-men handcuffed and turning pucks over

2) d-men pinching with no Forwards backing up. It happens mostly to Schmidt and Hughes (our top 2 offense minded forwards) 

 

The players have stated time and time again that they play their best when they play as a 5 man unit which means they know what they are supposed to do.

 

Problem is, when they are not doing that and leading to turnovers and goals against, where is the accountability? 

sometimes our F's are just getting beat. On the TO goal last game Michaelis actually got back in time but couldn't stop the goal. 

[-DLC-]

This past year has been such an anomaly that it's hard to gauge much of anything.   I know...people will go back 7 years but this is a moving target we're dealing with.

 

I'd say that, as with any sort of "coaching", it gets stale and comfortable over time.   That's when it may get taken for granted and tuned out.  Even with life coaching/therapists - it's good to move on and progress at some point.  The point is to be able to absorb what they're teaching you then apply it.  If it's not happening...why?

 

Fresh ideas brought to table when it's not working aren't a bad plan.  But you don't always abandon a program in the midst of chaos...you see if you can work through it.  That's the goal...to be able to.

 

Let's face it...the glimpses we've had recently haven't been consistent enough to say "it's working".  We have moments and that's not enough to get it done.  But it's trending toward a better overall performance so more patience may be required in what's been a less than ideal situation.

 

I see us moving in the right direction lately and perhaps the abrupt changes in the roster did "upset" the balance somewhat setting out.  Couple that with a hit the gate running deal without time to work in new members and figure out holes left by others isn't the best time TO assess things.  So maybe working through that is part of it?

 

I feel that we could use some fresh perspectives in relation to the power play (for sure) and some defensive "coaching".  We have systems in  place but what about getting players to use them effectively?

 

I am not opposed to any changes at this point but I just feel that some people think you fire someone/everyone and instantly things change.  That it's more lashing out and venting than anything.  Add water and stir.   It's become the new catch phrase:   "FIRE [insert name here]" and becomes less believable over time as a result (for me anyhow).  The constant barrage of it.

Especially in considering that this team has had some resent disruptions and is showing signs of adjusting, I'm not sure that right here and now is the best time.  Let the dust settle, get through this damn covid crap and then start determining things.   But again, if they pull the plug on any of them I wouldn't be too upset as I've learned to embrace change as opening new doors.  Not just shutting doors.

 

I honestly think it's more about what the players feel/want than what the screaming masses do.  That's who I want weighing in most of all because we have no idea of how receptive they are to coaching staff and if any personality clashes (or ego) are getting in the way of that.

 

We only see the on ice result but have no way of knowing what's factoring in there.  Fatigue, tuning out, not "getting" the instruction as it's laid out poorly, repetitive ideas that lack adaption or creativity, personality clashes, etc.  I (used to) take in every open practice that was made available to the public because, often, it shows a lot.  We haven't had the luxury of that lately to see how players/coaches are interacting.  I'm not sure any of us really is in a position to assess "coaches"...we can only evaluate what we're seeing as a unit on ice.  Players were thrust into a crazy schedule with no practice time or room to get familiar with new members and adjust to absences (like Tanev).

 

I have no answers but do know that sometimes time is what is needed.  Time to adapt to bubbles and gruelling schedules and absences and new faces on the bench.  And yes, even the "old faces" behind it....maybe it's time?  I just have no idea because I'm fearful of getting worse, not better.

 

Another tldr deb/acle but it's how I roll.  "Noise".  Fire my coach.