We are actually far better than we think....

[Chickenspear]

2 minutes ago, xereau said:

I like the idea of incentive based contracts, up to a salary cap.

It keeps both players and management honest.

Could also allow 1 compliance buyout/year on contracts of 4+ years, after 50% completed as well

[Tom Sestito]

1 hour ago, Primal Optimist said:

off the top of my head, i think we have 17m coming off the books this summer IF we buyout Eriksson. I know it more than 11m but can't recall the math i did 3 weeks ago. haha. 

Our cap situation is relatively similar to last season's. Assuming Eriksson in the minors, Ferland LTIR, and Luongo $3MM penalty remains, they'll have like $29ishMM to fill out 11 spots.

 

Promote Woo, Rathbone, Podkolzin. Sign five players to $1M deals to replace Edler, Benn, Pearson, Sutter, Hamonic -> they'd have roughly $21.5MM to sign Hughes, Demko, EP. They can basically only afford to sign one of those guys long term with the cap they have. The two others will be bridge deals. Or, they bridge all three and then they can afford an elite third line center or top four defenseman - both huge needs. But, it's basically going to be the same thing of last season where we shuffle $&!# and redistribute and hope players internally improve and that players don't get worse.

 

The biggest pressing need is for the team to figure out how to dump Holtby, Roussel, and Eriksson. Those are the biggest non-contributors affecting the cap next season.

 

 

[Guest]

Our worst contracts are coming of the books this year and next.  
 

I like a lot of the moves that Benning has made but I wouldn’t say that he’s gone the cheap route in terms of player acquisition. They were necessary acquisitions in order to create a good learning environment for our youngsters. They also look worst now that they’re on the back end of their deals.  
 

I’d love to get one more Benning draft before we change course but not sure if that will happen. 

[Junkyard Dog]

3 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I wonder how good Petey would be as a winger.  It's a simpler position to play but more physical.  I guess there's only one way to find out.

 

I think that those 3 down the middle would be very strong but it's only going to work if the wingers are better.  I mean, on a good team, Pearson is probably on the 3rd line.  So what about the depth coming up?  does Jake stick in the top 6 long term?  Podkolzin may be top 6.  They're grooming Lind as a centre (presumably 3C).  Gadjovich is 3rd line too.  Maybe you're right, Miller on the 3rd line is a luxury they don't have the depth for

Yeah but Miller might not be nearly as good with lesser wingers. You want to get the most out of him and the top line you keep them together.  
 

We have the wingers in the system but we are a few years away till they’re good enough and we have the depth to runs 3 Cs like this. 

[xereau]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Hoglander Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Virtanen

Roussel Miller Gaudette

Hawryluk Beagle Sutter

Our hurt guys are about to come back.

 

Petey Miller Boeser

Hogz Horvat Virt

Motte Sutter Gaudette

Rous Beagle MacEwen

 

I like the idea of Miller permanently at center on that top line.

Horvat and Virt look to shoot, and Hoglander has incredible vision.

After this season, a UFA 2 way younger center with higher offensive upside than Sutter would be golden.

Motte and Sutter balances out Gaud's tendency to get caught, and both wingers are known to pot quick goals.

If we can somehow upgrade Sutter with a younger faster 2 way playmaker, that 3rd line becomes a nightmare to contain.

 

3/4 lines that can score is what carried this team in their best years a decade ago.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by xereau

[Convincing John]

This is literally the opposite of a moneyball team. We have an unbelievable amount of self inflicted dead cap space. Remember when everyone was pumped about the Sedins and Miller, etc coming off the books? What did we do with that space? Filled it with more garbage. Jim needs to put the pen away on UFA day. If that day alone was erased from his portfolio he would be the undisputed greatest GM the franchise has ever seen. It has impeded us from taking advantage of other cap strapped teams with great assets. Kinda like how we got Miller and Schmidt. 

[kloubek]

3 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If Demko isn’t standing on his head the last few weeks we are waaaay out of it. 
 

When you rely on your goalies as much as we do you’re not gonna set yourself up for long-term success. 
 

Gotta be better in front of them. Same problem last year. 

This. 

 

Imo, the players on this team are really quite a decent group. At least on paper. Yet, for some reason we continue to cough up giveaways and play a poor defensive game. I don't really know why this is, but until we figure out why that's happening and fix it, we will continue to struggle as a team regardless of whether prospects like Podz develop nicely.

Edited March 10, 2021 by kloubek

[Toyotasfan]

I wonder what Motte’s timeline is ? He’s the best player on the bottom 6.

[iceman64]

18 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

Im not riding so high after this win that im delusional. Has anyone stopped to consider the amount of Cap 

we have NOT on the ice vs. what is on the ice for the last two teams we have played? When you consider

that EP40 was not present (I know his cap hit is small but his salary potential is HUGE), you have to think 

about how well this team has been crafted. 

 

Im going to use Miller and Hawryluk as examples. Miller is getting hot again and stands to be in our top 5 

forwards in terms of production AGAIN. Without too much to go on in terms of scouting from a laymans 

perspective the management teams picks him up and now look at him not to mention his off ice value.

Then you look at Hawryluk and anyone with an eye for hockey can see he is going to be ANOTHER 

player like Miller, another workhorse, dog after a bone type with HUGE character imo. I always

notice when he is on the ice. 

 

All im saying is that when you consider the contracts, the injuries, Covid19 we have a pretty fycking amazing

management team. IF we somehow make the playoffs jayzus do they derserve ALOT of credit. 

If only we can go on a streak. Honestly reminds me of the Oakland A's in Moneyball.

 

No far better than some think, that's hardly everyone, and certainly not me, I believe we're closer than people think but still in reality it will take 2 seasons to be the team we all want it to be, and the media, in Vancouver is clueless but will jump on the bandwagon as soon as we start moving forward until we're finally set, it's laughable how many listen to them but it comes out of a mindset that refuses to understand anything past negativity clickbait.. 

 I had to laugh after reading Woodley's article on DiPietro saying he's not getting enough games being on the taxi squad and it ruining him... some 3rd stringer should be signed and take his place and send him back to Utica.. do people even think before they write this crap?  forget he's getting a ton of time with Ian and getting the best coaching money can buy, who he can get a lot of insight and honing the finer points and then put it all into practice but if it wasn't for covid he would be #1 in Utica but if Holtby or Demko get injured, how will some no name 3rd stringer help us exactly? and it's not a long season as usual either but there is no way MD is being ruined, what a moron... 

 This sounds so familiar, he might as well write for the province or the sun, he would not look out of place..  smh

[Shirotashi]

48 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

I wonder what Motte’s timeline is ? He’s the best player on the bottom 6.

I actually forgot about Motte wow....

[Ghostsof1915]

9 hours ago, xereau said:

Next CBA, needs a CYA clause (as in, if you suck, GTFO!).

 

The NFL has it, and no one goes crying the blues.

 

Perform, or get out. Anchor contracts are bad for the entire sport.

NHLPA will never give up guaranteed contracts. That's a hill they will probably die on, and fight tooth and nail for for 1-2 years. 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

I wonder what Motte’s timeline is ? He’s the best player on the bottom 6.

To be honest I'm more worried about Petey's timeline.

[canuktravella]

9 hours ago, Primal Optimist said:

off the top of my head, i think we have 17m coming off the books this summer IF we buyout Eriksson. I know it more than 11m but can't recall the math i did 3 weeks ago. haha. 

 your incorrect bout numbers coming off 

its edler 6 pearson 3.75 sutter 4.25 baertchi 3.66 benn 2    spooner 1.0 bonus overages 1.7  900k juolevi 900k hughes 900k petey 1.0 demko 26mill freed up   not incudling  who ever seattle takes  soo 900k-6mill depending on player  so we have potential 27-32 mill opening up before any other trades are made 

 

 obviously need to resign gaudette petey huges and demko   numbers depend on how many yrs    should be money left over to sign podkolzin tryamkin and edler on a cheap deal as well

[canuktravella]

6 hours ago, kloubek said:

This. 

 

Imo, the players on this team are really quite a decent group. At least on paper. Yet, for some reason we continue to cough up giveaways and play a poor defensive game. I don't really know why this is, but until we figure out why that's happening and fix it, we will continue to struggle as a team regardless of whether prospects like Podz develop nicely.

 assistant coaches need to go as does green

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

Our cap situation is relatively similar to last season's. Assuming Eriksson in the minors, Ferland LTIR, and Luongo $3MM penalty remains, they'll have like $29ishMM to fill out 11 spots.

 

Promote Woo, Rathbone, Podkolzin. Sign five players to $1M deals to replace Edler, Benn, Pearson, Sutter, Hamonic -> they'd have roughly $21.5MM to sign Hughes, Demko, EP. They can basically only afford to sign one of those guys long term with the cap they have. The two others will be bridge deals. Or, they bridge all three and then they can afford an elite third line center or top four defenseman - both huge needs. But, it's basically going to be the same thing of last season where we shuffle $&!# and redistribute and hope players internally improve and that players don't get worse.

 

The biggest pressing need is for the team to figure out how to dump Holtby, Roussel, and Eriksson. Those are the biggest non-contributors affecting the cap next season.

 

 

Well said.   Hard to know what happens in the ED, as long as they don't take Myers we should come out ok, but it's going to free up some cap space no matter what (which hopefully aligns with a rookie coming in) and clear some cap. It won't be Holtby ... it's possible it's AR depending on what deal JB would make to get them to take him.   But for sure it's clearing up 2.5-6 million (it could be JV exposed - in which case Seattle for sure might bite)...

 

I agree that not a lot will happen in the off season other then re-signing players, thankfully JB didn't do anything stupid last off season and tie his hands with this season in mind.    Imagine if he did sell assets to free up cap just to keep mostly the same team?  We'd be in a worse pickle this off-season and have lost roster players this year (Pearson, JV or Sutter is my guess) plus one of Hoglander, Podz or a first and a second rounder and a B level guy....

 

JB seems to improve a little each year.   We were lucky to get Schmidt for a third.   And that Holtby choose us - although for sure he's no Ryan Miller is he....needs to steal a couple games to redeem himself and wouldn't bet against that.   

 

Team needed another option in case Demko didn't work out - was for sure the best one available overall - a good fit for our team so wouldn't count him out yet. Way too early for that.  

 

Bottom line is we do have the cap space to lock in EP and QHs long term at indentical deals if we want too - the numbers been thrown around on the CDC are often not accurate.   7.5 x 8 is right on the fair mark for both guys.  14-16 is what i keep bringing up.   Both guys have potential - the team only needs to pay for some of that potential - AHO and Barzal > then EP .... as far as actual on ice production during their ELCs...QHs is a little tougher....personally feel he's the guy we should bridge of the two.   A deal like BB makes sense with a modest bump to get to flat cap - or 6 x 3.    

 

If not 7.5 x 8 and do them as a pair.   No freaking way they've earned more then 8.  JB has been fair on all the deals for his RFAs to date.   Folks loved the Bear deal at the time ... Horvats considered fair and BB less then most anticipated. 

Look at BB now - earning his next deal that's for sure .... so hope if either EP or QHs falter that people have more patience with them and don't make 1000 trade proposals for them...one poster in particular was tough on BB saying JV was better - and a bunch of other nonsense - eat some crow lol...

 

Anyways - one on a long term deal and the other on a bridge also provides more options in the future.   If they both are on  bridges - wow is JB or whomever going to be busy when BB, Horvat and Miller are up - for a 2-3 year period anyways ... i'm ok with any scenario as long as the cap hit makes sense and isn't player friendly.   JB might have a rep for overpaying some vets (as do most GMs, that's the cost of doing that when your in a rebuild - pay a premium on a premium under normal non-covid circumstances and even then for some - Guddy at 4.5 or Myers at 6 hmmmm), but he's certainly doesn't with his RFAs...that's Dubas and Dubas only outside of Keller in ARI. 

[canuckfromlangley]

If we were still in the pacific division this year we would probably be in 2nd or 3rd in the division and nobody would be complaining.

[IBatch]

Also want to say this.   The RFA contracts that are bridged - can back-fire big-time if a player bets on himself and then goes out and has a career year (which for sure can happen at that age), case in point Subban.   He played MTL like a fiddle .... and got a gigantic brinks truck showing up as a result.   If they did a 5.5 x 8 which for sure at the time looked fair,  MTL maybe could have gone places with that at the time.   Price was in another stratosphere which is something else MTL should have clued into .... 

 

And when the majority of a core is on their second contracts - that's when your window is best.   CHI could have continued their dominance if Toews and Kane didn't suck the cap life out of that team, same with Seabrook and Crawford even.    That's what every good team is up against.   Only St. Louis has won a cup, maybe CAR too, without a group of superstar(s) - stars on their rosters since the cap came in.   Gives teams like our hope for sure.   Our window technically opens next season.   That's QHs and EPs first second contract season.   And will keep open as long as JB can keep adding rookies as support and transitional players.   And will be its widest when the core is 3-7 years older then it is now.    Stamkos couldn't do it with the core ahead of him that was still carrying the mail....and the team ended up so good they basically did it without him.   Hedman to a certain degree as well.   Point and Kucherov coming in later did this for them.   And of course their tax break helped them load right up - same as Vegas, same as Dallas.   

 

Our team has all the ingredients to become something special - that much is for sure.   I'm glad we won't be too top heavy, because it's the Sutters and Beagles and Ferlands that help push you over the top, and we for sure can afford that until EP and QHs and BB get their legacy deals.  

[IBatch]

As for the OP.   There isn't many rosters that have Horvat or even Miller and younger that is rather have.   Maybe CAR.   And even then i'd really need to think about it.

 

Media types have been speaking JBs praises for three years now - when i say that i'm talking about Eastern media because that's where i live now and don't pay much attention to anything else.   Since BB rookie year .... that's awhile ago now isn't it?   Beating St. Louis and then talking a contender to 7 games?  You can bet Vegas got their mojo sucked out of them drawing us...they were the better team but lost to Dallas  ... have to wonder how they'd have done if they didn't draw us...and how they'd have managed TB too.  

 

Point is - yes - we are a good team right now.   Even without all the guys that left. That says a lot right there.   In an 82 game schedule i have no doubt we'd make the playoffs.    Bet if you add the extra games next year we'd be a playoff team even though we dug a hole the first 18 games or so.   Next year - i'd be shocked if we miss.   LA, ANA and SJ aren't what they used to be at all.   ARI... too bad we can't beat up on them next year.    The future is bright.   Very very bright.   The 2020's have a great chance of becoming the best decade the teams ever had as far as playoff series won.