The I have Mixed Feelings about Jim Benning Chaosthread 3000

[kanucks25]

14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

How it is BS when it has been over 3 years now?

3 years ago is a long time? Bad decisions from 3 years ago can cripple a franchise for years after that.

 

14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

How it is BS when it has been over 3 years now? NewbieCanuckFan even mentioned Montreal and how they've gone through more than 1 coach firing with Bergevin. You claim there's no evidence, but how long it's been since WD was fired along with teams like Bergevin bucking the trend is evidence still.

So? You can easily make a case for Bergevin being fired years ago. Why some GMs get the opportunity to stay longer than others and make more key decisions despite not having much more success? Not sure, I'm not one of the owners, but X team having a bad GM doesn't make it okay for us to.

 

This is akin to the ridiculous "at least we're not Buffalo or Arizona" argument people like to throw out around here.

 

STANDARDS, PEOPLE. HAVE THEM. WE DESERVE THEM. WE ARE GOOD FANS.

 

14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

If these were problems that were ongoing

Bad coaching has been a constant under Benning from day 1 to day, well, today.

 

14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

There are a lot of wannabe experts out there on this forum. People who think they know better than Benning.

Stop it with this lol. There are bad coaches/GMs/ETC all over the place in every sport that do terrible jobs and you know it.

Edited March 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[The Lock]

16 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

3 years ago is a long time? Bad decisions from 3 years ago can cripple a franchise for years after that.

 

So? You can easily make a case for Bergevin being fired years ago. Why some GMs get the opportunity to stay longer than others and make more key decisions despite not having much more success? Not sure, I'm not one of the owners, but X team having a bad GM doesn't make it okay for us to.

 

This is akin to the ridiculous "at least we're not Buffalo or Arizona" argument people like to throw out around here.

 

STANDARDS, PEOPLE. HAVE THEM. WE DESERVE THEM. WE ARE GOOD FANS.

 

Bad coaching has been a constant under Benning from day 1 to day, well, today.

 

Stop it with this lol. There are bad coaches/GMs/ETC all over the place in every sport that do terrible jobs and you know it.

Okay? What bad decisions from 3 years ago are we talking about then? Beagle and Roussel? Let's give you that. Let's then also say Eriksson from 6 years ago. So then is 6 years not a lot time ago either? What's a long time ago in your mind? I'm curious and I hope it's not just some made up number in order to create a narrative. Give me actual reasons as to why you're picking that number please.

 

Guess what? Bergevin didn't get fired. Sure, you could make the case for him back then, but does that also mean we can make the case then for Benning being around in 5 years? If you want to go down this path, I can easily flip this to talk then about Benning staying around much much longer.  This is what I mean by silly arguments. If you think what I'm saying is silly here, that's exactly my point since you are coming up with similar here. lol

 

And then there's this "STANDARDS" sentence. Like those standards are going to matter on a team owned by someone else. I'd say that owner's standards come first whether any of us want to admit that or not. But go ahead, hold your toy sword up in the air pretending you're Braveheart. lol

 

Okay? What's good coaching. Give me examples on who you want instead. I want to know. If you don't provide this, I'm going to assume you only think coaching's bad and never good because that's kind of how you're coming across at the moment. What do you want for coaching?

 

Again, okay? How does this translate to our team? Sure, mistakes have been made, but we're not in some dire situation yet. It's been a crappy year but we have a good core moving forward still. I guess I just don't panic as easily as you? lol

 

Anyway, mud-slinging and forum warrioring aside, we both know we disagree with each other on a lot of this and I don't think either of us are convincing the other, but I genuinely do want to know what you actually feel a good GM and a good coach would do better. Too often people look at the negative and never consider what they want actually done beyond the firings.

Edited March 16, 2021 by The Lock

[apollo]

14 hours ago, Josepho said:

Nobody is comparing Benning's contracts, pro scouting and asset management to "Xbox", it's being compared to basically every other GM in the league. This is extremely important in making this team emerge into a contender -- this is what separates teams like the 2010 Blackhawks from teams like the Panthers over the last decade.

Yes his doubters think this is X-Box game... they think they can turn down the difficulty and just win 10 cups in a row. No GM is perfect... look around the league. Good for you for being able to point out some of his mistakes. I can play that game too but it's silly. Watch Canucks games on the away broadcast... every away commentator praises us... everyone is drooling over all our talent ... but you out here talking about CHIRAQ?!

 

So tough to draft franchise player when you get 1st overall in lotto? Also Toews was 2nd or 3rd overall wasn't he?

 

Jim has excelled at the most important part of the game - finding franchise players... our future has simply never looked this bright and no GM has had a better record of acquiring franchise assets than Jim.... His drafting is simply a landslide #1 in the league since Brocky year... there's no GM that snagged that many franchise assets with so few picks!

 

Jim took over with very few picks and older vets that he couldn't get much for... few picks for him as the previous regime left us decimated (no hate towards my boy MG - he had to do what he had to do to make us the first team in salary cap era to win back to back President trophies)

 

Jim has snagged diamonds with brutal pick positions but he clearly doesn't care.

 

Jim beninning wants you to drop him 3 spots in the draft. He doesn't care... he'll still win the draft.

 

FTR Hughes was robbed of the Calrder. I don't even care though, we're claiming victory of that draft! Long live the great Jim Benning <3  To the moon!

 

 

 

[Josepho]

6 minutes ago, apollo said:

Yes his doubters think this is X-Box game... they think they can turn down the difficulty and just win 10 cups in a row. No GM is perfect... look around the league. Good for you for being able to point out some of his mistakes. I can play that game too but it's silly. Watch Canucks games on the away broadcast... every away commentator praises us... everyone is drooling over all our talent ... but you out here talking about CHIRAQ?!

 

So tough to draft franchise player when you get 1st overall in lotto? Also Toews was 2nd or 3rd overall wasn't he?

 

Jim has excelled at the most important part of the game - finding franchise players... our future has simply never looked this bright and no GM has had a better record of acquiring franchise assets than Jim.... His drafting is simply a landslide #1 in the league since Brocky year... there's no GM that snagged that many franchise assets with so few picks!

 

Jim took over with very few picks and older vets that he couldn't get much for... few picks for him as the previous regime left us decimated (no hate towards my boy MG - he had to do what he had to do to make us the first team in salary cap era to win back to back President trophies)

 

Jim has snagged diamonds with brutal pick positions but he clearly doesn't care.

 

Jim beninning wants you to drop him 3 spots in the draft. He doesn't care... he'll still win the draft.

 

FTR Hughes was robbed of the Calrder. I don't even care though, we're claiming victory of that draft! Long live the great Jim Benning <3  To the moon!

 

 

 

Okay, cool. Assuming that he is the one behind all of our draft picks (and not the scouting staff), great that he can draft good players. Finding franchise players with high picks might be the most important, but it's much harder to actually build a proper supporting cast around the salary cap.

 

No GM is "perfect" sure, but please find me one other GM who has spent 30mil similarly to how Benning has on Eriksson/Baertschi/Myers/Beagle/Roussel/Holtby/Sutter -- this is extremely abnormal and you will not find any actual good organizations doing this. San Jose and MAYBE the Islanders are the only teams that have managed their cap worse than us, and the latter is at least contending for a cup right now.

 

Why does it matter if he can't properly support the talent? I'm not comparing out drafting with Chicago's or Florida's, I'm comparing the ability to support the talent with shrewd, cheap acquisitions, which is what you need to win a cup. Look at how quickly the Panthers turned around as soon as they got rid of Tallon and replaced him with what'll likely be a GMOTY candidate in Zito -- if we can get a new GM similar to Zito this offseason, we'll actually start winning games and stop talking about "potential".

[xereau]

39 minutes ago, Josepho said:

Okay, cool. Assuming that he is the one behind all of our draft picks (and not the scouting staff), great that he can draft good players. Finding franchise players with high picks might be the most important, but it's much harder to actually build a proper supporting cast around the salary cap.

 

No GM is "perfect" sure, but please find me one other GM who has spent 30mil similarly to how Benning has on Eriksson/Baertschi/Myers/Beagle/Roussel/Holtby/Sutter -- this is extremely abnormal and you will not find any actual good organizations doing this. San Jose and MAYBE the Islanders are the only teams that have managed their cap worse than us, and the latter is at least contending for a cup right now.

 

Why does it matter if he can't properly support the talent? I'm not comparing out drafting with Chicago's or Florida's, I'm comparing the ability to support the talent with shrewd, cheap acquisitions, which is what you need to win a cup. Look at how quickly the Panthers turned around as soon as they got rid of Tallon and replaced him with what'll likely be a GMOTY candidate in Zito -- if we can get a new GM similar to Zito this offseason, we'll actually start winning games and stop talking about "potential".

Jeff Skinner and Kyle Okposo say hi.

[Josepho]

2 minutes ago, xereau said:

Jeff Skinner and Kyle Okposo say hi.

Yes, Buffalo too.

 

But we should be looking at the actual top teams in the league when we're doing this -- that's where the Canucks are trying to get to. Being "better than Buffalo" doesn't lead to anything.

[DSVII]

I don't think Buffalo is a comparable we want to reference for either side of this debate, they are currently in a category of their own.

 

 

[Me_]

6 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

3 years ago is a long time? Bad decisions from 3 years ago can cripple a franchise for years after that.

 

So? You can easily make a case for Bergevin being fired years ago. Why some GMs get the opportunity to stay longer than others and make more key decisions despite not having much more success? Not sure, I'm not one of the owners, but X team having a bad GM doesn't make it okay for us to.

 

This is akin to the ridiculous "at least we're not Buffalo or Arizona" argument people like to throw out around here.

 

STANDARDS, PEOPLE. HAVE THEM. WE DESERVE THEM. WE ARE GOOD FANS.

 

Bad coaching has been a constant under Benning from day 1 to day, well, today.

 

Stop it with this lol. There are bad coaches/GMs/ETC all over the place in every sport that do terrible jobs and you know it.

“Good fans” lol!

Have you read the posts on these boards on game off-days?

 

It’s absolutely atrocious how “fans” treat this team. 
 

I’m surprised they haven’t move the team somewhere else yet.

[Angry Goose]

I have faith in Benning.  Not worried at all about UFAs or contracts.  We've seen in the last couple of off seasons he's not looking at all to add big longterm veteran contracts (other than Meyers and Schmidt, but given the defense it was necessary).

 

The major work comes in tweaking the teams depth and bottom 6.  Also has to make decisions on Gaudette/Virtanen.  

[kanucks25]

56 minutes ago, Me_ said:

“Good fans” lol!

Have you read the posts on these boards on game off-days?

 

It’s absolutely atrocious how “fans” treat this team. 
 

I’m surprised they haven’t move the team somewhere else yet.

Yeah, they're going to move a team that's near the top every year in attendance, revenue, engagement and ratings.

 

I hear Arizona is looking for a 2nd NHL team.

 

Seriously, get a grip lol.

[Me_]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Yeah, they're going to move a team that's near the top every year in attendance, revenue, engagement and ratings.

 

I hear Arizona is looking for a 2nd NHL team.

 

Seriously, get a grip lol.

What do you care?

 

Your standards are 0 to negative 57. 
 

Not one leg to stand on.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Me_

[kanucks25]

17 minutes ago, Me_ said:

What do you care?

 

Your standards are 0 to negative 57. 
 

Not one leg to stand on.

 

What does this even mean lol

[Josepho]

Fans are critical of this team because they desperately want to success, and think the current situation isn't poised for success.

 

You can disagree with their evaluations of the franchise, but anyone who is spending their time arguing with other people on a message board clearly cares about the long term well-being of this team.

[Me_]

24 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

What does this even mean lol

O I don’t think the Canucks will ever win a Cup with its depressive fan base and its critically pretentious media style.
 

But that’s just my opinion.

 

Hope it’s clearer now.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Me_

[AV.]

Lol, the Benning guys are in chaos mode too I guess.  You can vividly imagine the tears streaming down their faces as they type trying to deflect the criticism.

 

"wah wah wah Jim is trying his hardest, wah wah wah you're not an expert, wah wah wah if Jim goes, we should relocate the team"

 

Just makes me laugh lololol.

[kanucks25]

8 minutes ago, Me_ said:

O I don’t think the Canucks will ever win a Cup with its depressive fan base and its critically pretentious media style.

This is not anywhere near the same as "I don't like X, Y, Z decisions by this GM because of A, B, C reasons and feel a different GM might be able to do a better job."

 

How are you supposed to have a discussion when people just spew this nonsensical, hyperbolic, strawman garbage?

 

I got one guy here like last week telling me, in the name of defending Benning's decision to let him walk, that Tanev was the worst D-man we've ever had and the main reason we've had so many losing seasons during his time here.

 

Another one, to undersell the accomplishments of Gillis compared to Benning, said the 2011 team was purely a product of goaltending... a team that was 1st overall in goal scoring and PP and had two forwards that won major awards (Hart & Selke).

 

Sometimes it's hard to believe that most people here are adults (allegedly, I guess).

[Primal Optimist]

As a raw fan of the Vancouver Canucks, without even looking at the standings, just the lineup: 

 

I like about 19-20 of the guys in the main roster, scratches, IR and the taxi squad currently, and I like another 11 or so in the minors/unsigned prospects and reserve list guys.

 

Since JB's been the man in the planning seat since May 23rd 2014, and since I like around 30 or 31 of the guys he has on the Canucks Depth Chart at this moment in time, I am prone to saying I like Jim Benning.

 

There are many arguments to be made for why I am wrong though. 

 

In a nutshell: I want to wait for a few things to occur before deciding to replace the GM;

~LU's cap recapture to expire (3.035m this and next season)

~LU's cap to expire. Not that Lu, this Lu. The 6 million dollar fan. (as in he generates a lot of air off his whiffs) which I suspect will occurr this offseason via BUYOUT. 

~Spooner's buyout expiring at the end of this season

~Baertschi's 2.3m expiring off the cap at the end of this season

~Pods to arrive in April or this summer, whichever happens. He is in the 2nd round of the KHL's Gagarin Cup who knows when they lose a series, or if they go all the way, but valuable experience for the young phenom. 

~Covid restrictions on the clubs revenue generation to ease and lift and for home games to be fan filled games again. 

~the Covid-Cap crunch to fade away and have some continuity in the million or so increases every year that the league and us fans were used to since the lockout.

 

SO, I guess I am in the camp of 'don't fire him until either his contract expires naturally or the summer of 2022, whichever comes first. I just don't think he is the issue and his big regret (not a mistake as NO ONE knew EK was gonna throw his offense in the midden heap when he signed here.) will be done and gone soon enough. If things get supremely better by the end of next season, IMO< all our belly aching will have been for nothing. hehe. Not planning the parade route, but IMO our 'window' opens slightly next year and continues to open to a really big bay door to drive the floats out of for said parade in the years that follow next season. 

 

[rychicken]

Is there a thread "I have mixed feelings about all the mixed feelings threads"?

[Sativika]

It's a given to be critical of GM's in the NHL or any professional team sport for that matter. But especially GM's of Canadian based NHL teams. We're a passionate bunch north of the border aren't we.  For instance, MG put together a great team and put in place a culture of a great hockey destination for players to be a part of. Life was good. But drafting under MG was dismal. Though Bo's an exception. My only criticism of JB are questionable trades and free agent signings. I understand the reasoning behind them at the time, but most didn't pan out and are affecting us to this day.

[apollo]

2 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Lol, the Benning guys are in chaos mode too I guess.  You can vividly imagine the tears streaming down their faces as they type trying to deflect the criticism.

 

"wah wah wah Jim is trying his hardest, wah wah wah you're not an expert, wah wah wah if Jim goes, we should relocate the team"

 

Just makes me laugh lololol.

Hey Coach! 

 

Nothing against u but only guys calling the whaaambulance are his doubters. 

 

Seems like they call the whaaambulance non stop. 

 

No body cares that we have some bad contracts that come off the books in 2 months or 15 months... Who cares... How short sighted are people? 

 

He's given us countless franchise players and they all in their 20s... How about we enjoy the 10+ years we're going to have 5 freakin phenoms for? 

 

Instead of calling the whaaambulance over Beagle getting paid 500k more than he should? Unless your aquaman daughter who had her buggatti downgraded to a lambo, all I see is buncha glass half empty guys calling the whaaambulance. 

 

 

Or saying silly things like eeehrrrmaaageuurrddd markstrom 6x6 shoulda signed him! Demko can't even get 100% save percentage every night... 

 

Just watch away broadcasts. They do nothing but praise our team and youngsters and Jim... Only trolls are Canucks fans that have clinical depression over the injustice us diehards have had to go thru. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by apollo