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13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

How do you know ownership wasn't involved?

 

And even if he wasn't directly involved, he was through Linden. The plan was passed down from ownership to Linden to Benning, perhaps it wasn't direct but it's essentially the same thing.

You keep saying it doesnt matter who made the mandate ?, or even care to know what transpired in 2014, yet blindly place all the blame on Benning.

Hiring Benning was Lindens call, and his alone. Ownership gave the keys to Linden to do as he saw fit. (in 2014).

 

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19 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

Agreed, that by 2015, they needed, a rebuild, but they did not

Eriksson, Gudbranson etc, were 'win now' moves.

They stopped signing high profile UFA's in 2016.(until they made a playoff push in 2019).

Yes, in retrospect it was a mistake to sign those 2 players.  I suspect that they thought Eriksson could improve the slumping twins #s and Guddy would support the incoming young players.  Neither happened, so it was a big loss considering Loui's long term.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

You keep saying it doesnt matter who made the mandate ?, or even care to know what transpired in 2014, yet blindly place all the blame on Benning.

Hiring Benning was Lindens call, and his alone. Ownership gave the keys to Linden to do as he saw fit. (in 2014).

 

I don't claim to know the inner workings of the management/ownership team.

 

Jim Benning has been the general manager of the Vancouver Canucks for almost 8 years now. He deserves a large portion of the blame for the mistakes made during his tenure, it doesn't matter to me if it's 50% or 47% or 87% or whatever you feel like it is based on whatever you believe.

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3 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

image.png.18cd6165675917585ae566c7d63981a8.png

 

Logic downvoted into oblivion.

 

Used to get the same thing here 2-3 years ago.

 

People are starting to come to their senses a bit though.

 

bUT whO cOuLD hAvE knOwn!!! hInDsiGhT!!!

 

I remember clearly posting on here that his contract will handicap us when our rebuild is ready for takeoff and I got absolutely roasted. I also remember being roasted for saying the Ferland contract was a mistake as well. This is the time we should have the cap space. To fill the holes in the core. We filled the holes in the core before we had a core and now we are sitting here in limbo until all this garbage is cleared. 
 

the funny thing is. I’m not even excited for these contracts to expire. Because I know that Jim hates cap space. I know that he is going to fill those duds with more duds. For this reason I want him gone. Thanks for the core Jim but you’ve proven time and time again that you can’t handle the next phase. He is the framer, he is really good at framing a house but has no idea how to finish the rest. 

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5 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

image.png.18cd6165675917585ae566c7d63981a8.png

 

Logic downvoted into oblivion.

 

Used to get the same thing here 2-3 years ago.

 

People are starting to come to their senses a bit though.

 

bUT whO cOuLD hAvE knOwn!!! hInDsiGhT!!!

Except the tone of voice in that reddit post alone deserves that downvoting. You don't just call other fans "casual and low information" without showing an arrogance that no one wants to see. Doesn't matter what logic you provide if you're going to treat others like crap. It just would have so happened that at the time there would have been more neutral fans and more fans for Benning since he was pretty new in Vancouver, so of course showing negative and condescending posts will get you downvoted since you're accusing the majority of having low information. lol

 

It's not even hard to express an opinion without attacking others and I bet if that person actually did that, it probably wouldn't have been downvoted. All the person literally needed to say was it will be an albatross of a contract. Is that hard to do without that first sentence of their's?

 

And, for the record, I was fine with the money at the time as we had that to spend and it looked like we were going to have that the next 3 or 4 years anyway. I did question the length however.

Edited by The Lock
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25 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Except the tone of voice in that reddit post alone deserves that downvoting. You don't just call other fans "casual and low information" without showing an arrogance that no one wants to see. Doesn't matter what logic you provide if you're going to treat others like crap. It just would have so happened that at the time there would have been more neutral fans and more fans for Benning since he was pretty new in Vancouver, so of course showing negative and condescending posts will get you downvoted since you're accusing the majority of having low information. lol

 

It's not even hard to express an opinion without attacking others and I bet if that person actually did that, it probably wouldn't have been downvoted. All the person literally needed to say was it will be an albatross of a contract. Is that hard to do without that first sentence of their's?

 

And, for the record, I was fine with the money at the time as we had that to spend and it looked like we were going to have that the next 3 or 4 years anyway. I did question the length however.

First of all, you are correct that it is a condescending tone that was unnecessary and said tone contributed to the downvotes.

 

But thinking that being nicer would get him upvotes? Not a chance. I frequented Canucks reddit a lot at that time (wasn't active here then) and I know first-hand that any anti-management post was not met kindly. Here's another, with a more neutral tone:

 

image.png.b56d2b5e47c218e827ac391f6b149858.png

 

-1 overall including the upvote I gave it at the time. Take a look at that thread and the posts at the top are the ones calling it a good or great move.

 

--

 

And for what it's worth, back then (well, I guess even still), posts like those were met with rebuttals that probably are best described as "low information"... takes like "cap space doesn't matter during a rebuild" and "a 2nd or 3rd round pick isn't going to kill us".

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14 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

First of all, you are correct that it is a condescending tone that was unnecessary.

 

But thinking that being nicer would get him upvotes? Not a chance. I frequented Canucks reddit a lot at that time (wasn't active here then) and I know first-hand that any anti-management post was not met kindly. Here's another, with a more neutral tone:

 

image.png.b56d2b5e47c218e827ac391f6b149858.png

 

-1 overall including the upvote I gave it at the time. Take a look at that thread and the posts at the top are the ones calling it a good or great move.

 

--

 

And for what it's worth, back then (well, I guess even still), posts like those were met with rebuttals that probably are best described as "low information"... takes like "cap space doesn't matter during a rebuild" and "a 2nd or 3rd round pick isn't going to kill us".

This isn't about getting upvotes. It's about getting less negative votes in this case. Your second reddit post you just provided proves this (which I would have likely agreed with given we weren't supposed to be a rebuilding team according to management). Just the 1 negative vote as you mentioned aside from your upvote.

 

And there will always be people who will be homers. It's common with every team. There will also always be people who will hate everything. lol It's why I'm mostly just looking at both sides at this point as I think both sides have valid (and invalid) points. If we end up with another GM, I'm going to likely be on the fence from the start and see where that GM takes us.

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5 minutes ago, The Lock said:

This isn't about getting upvotes. It's about getting less negative votes in this case. Your second reddit post you just provided proves this (which I would have likely agreed with given we weren't supposed to be a rebuilding team according to management). Just the 1 negative vote as you mentioned aside from your upvote.

 

And there will always be people who will be homers. It's common with every team. There will also always be people who will hate everything. lol It's why I'm mostly just looking at both sides at this point as I think both sides have valid (and invalid) points. If we end up with another GM, I'm going to likely be on the fence from the start and see where that GM takes us.

Here is the thing. You can look on CDC and find a ratio of 20:1 disrespectful comments to anti:pro Benning posts. This is even supported by the moderators. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen guys get absolutely torn to shreds by multiple people for questioning anything Benning does. The rules are blatantly lifted by the moderators to allow the Benning bros to flex their muscles and bully a poster into self destructing defence. I don’t want to show any specific examples but there are a handful of posters on here that would have been banned many years ago if their opinion was different. Then you have other legendary posters who did nothing but exchange blows to defend their opinion get banned for life. 
 

I actually enjoy talking to people I disagree with just as much as the people I agree with. I just wish both sides would actually listen. Then you wouldn’t need a condescending tone to get your point across and we could all hold hands and love each other. 

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1 minute ago, Convincing John said:

Here is the thing. You can look on CDC and find a ratio of 20:1 disrespectful comments to anti:pro Benning posts. This is even supported by the moderators. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen guys get absolutely torn to shreds by multiple people for questioning anything Benning does. The rules are blatantly lifted by the moderators to allow the Benning bros to flex their muscles and bully a poster into self destructing defence. I don’t want to show any specific examples but there are a handful of posters on here that would have been banned many years ago if their opinion was different. Then you have other legendary posters who did nothing but exchange blows to defend their opinion get banned for life. 
 

I actually enjoy talking to people I disagree with just as much as the people I agree with. I just wish both sides would actually listen. Then you wouldn’t need a condescending tone to get your point across and we could all hold hands and love each other. 

I do wish more people would look at a debate as a journey, a path to enhancing knowledge if you will, rather than the whole "I'm right you're wrong" stuff we so often see. Unfortunately, it often takes 2 to tango to have those debates, or at least a dedication by one person to move that conversation that direction. I like to think I'm learning how to do that but it's an "art" almost at the same time.

 

I think the biggest contributing factor is fear. People fear being wrong. Anger is a form of fear, so anyone who is throwing the swings are effectively fearful that their opinion has a chance of being wrong. Yet, is it really a bad thing to be questioned? If you're point is valid, then it's easy to prove. If not, then perhaps it needs looking into. Also, what's wrong with being wrong anyway? ;)

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14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I do wish more people would look at a debate as a journey, a path to enhancing knowledge if you will, rather than the whole "I'm right you're wrong" stuff we so often see. Unfortunately, it often takes 2 to tango to have those debates, or at least a dedication by one person to move that conversation that direction. I like to think I'm learning how to do that but it's an "art" almost at the same time.

 

I think the biggest contributing factor is fear. People fear being wrong. Anger is a form of fear, so anyone who is throwing the swings are effectively fearful that their opinion has a chance of being wrong. Yet, is it really a bad thing to be questioned? If you're point is valid, then it's easy to prove. If not, then perhaps it needs looking into. Also, what's wrong with being wrong anyway? ;)

I’m also not questioning the mods either. It’s everything leading up. It’s just that when 5 people gang up on 1. The lone wolf tends to defend themselves more aggressively. They end up throwing a nuke. It should ever get to that point. We are talking about hockey here. Who cares if you’re wrong. We all want the same thing and people have different ways to express that. 
 

I’ll have to say though, it’s actually gotten better here lately, even Reddit is more neutral. HF boards and Twitter are eternally miserable. Neutrality is what we all want. 

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Just now, Convincing John said:

I’m also not questioning the mods either. It’s everything leading up. It’s just that when 5 people gang up on 1. The lone wolf tends to defend themselves more aggressively. They end up throwing a nuke. It should ever get to that point. We are talking about hockey here. Who cares if you’re wrong. We all want the same thing and people have different ways to express that. 
 

I’ll have to say though, it’s actually gotten better here lately, even Reddit is more neutral. HF boards and Twitter are eternally miserable. Neutrality is what we all want. 

I think it's good that the mods let debate happen. I can certainly understand frustration from having an unpopular opinion and where harsh language can come from that at point. I've even come under fire in the past so I know what it's like. For example, I had a criticism about the Myers contract length and, even though I said I also understood why it was done, I still took a bunch of flak for that. lol

 

And I agree on the HF boards being miserable. (I don't really read twitter) I stopped reading there years ago. If someone has a criticism that's a logical argumen then I'm all ears, but a lot of it was just straight up hating everything. lol

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2 hours ago, The Lock said:

I do wish more people would look at a debate as a journey, a path to enhancing knowledge if you will, rather than the whole "I'm right you're wrong" stuff we so often see. Unfortunately, it often takes 2 to tango to have those debates, or at least a dedication by one person to move that conversation that direction. I like to think I'm learning how to do that but it's an "art" almost at the same time.

 

I think the biggest contributing factor is fear. People fear being wrong. Anger is a form of fear, so anyone who is throwing the swings are effectively fearful that their opinion has a chance of being wrong. Yet, is it really a bad thing to be questioned? If you're point is valid, then it's easy to prove. If not, then perhaps it needs looking into. Also, what's wrong with being wrong anyway? ;)

I aim to have the same approach as you.

 

It gets tough though when your viewpoints are being labeled as ignoring context, laughable, out of touch with reality, delusional, 'sky is falling', arguments you write down are intentionally ignored if you misspell a name etc...I do believe there is a segment here that is just interested in drowning out the other side regardless of debate. Debate gets self-destructive, as pointed out, and generally not a good time for either party. I'm making it a point to stop myself before it comes to accusations on people's character. 

 

I know there is a sane middleground between HF boards and the Homers hehe, I try and see what that is. There are times when you do get nice gems from the other side of the debate that make you appreciate some facts you haven't looked at before and reflect on how you evaluate things.

 

I think at the end of the day, we have to remember however differently we approach it, we still want what's best for the team and we wanna see Bo lift a cup. Save the vitriol for the Bruins and Rioters. 

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5 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I don't claim to know the inner workings of the management/ownership team.

 

Jim Benning has been the general manager of the Vancouver Canucks for almost 8 years now. He deserves a large portion of the blame for the mistakes made during his tenure, it doesn't matter to me if it's 50% or 47% or 87% or whatever you feel like it is based on whatever you believe.

JB is the prime definition of the Peter Principle imo. I can admit he's not as bad as I think he is, he's an average/ below avg GM that's been given the rope of a Yzerman/Sakic (and that's because of Ownership) Ironically (considering the slagging on Gillis), I feel like he's gotten a lot of leeway and praise for inheriting a Bruins core that was put together by Jeff Gorton and O'Connell (Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Rask, Kessel, Lucic).

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I'll throw this question here instead of starting brand-new thread:

 

what did we gain by not re-signing one of Markstrom, Toffoli or Tanev?........ or I guess I could have asked the opposite way: what did that imperil? would it have become thorny to sign EP/QH to the long-term deals they merit? I know the NHL has a hard or near-hard salary cap.

 

I think Toffoli was the obvious one of the 3 to re-sign if we were going to keep one of them...... Markstrom would have been an incredible no-brainer without Demko

 

thanks in advance :)

 

 

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On 3/15/2021 at 1:36 PM, RU SERIOUS said:

Yep.   JB has done a pretty good job drafting on the whole, less so with his signings, which for the most part have leaned towards being too long and for too much for average to below average players (Mainly our bottom 6 Fwd's and couple of Dmen).  After last season where he let Marky, Tanev and others walk (Tofolli excepted)  I suspect he's now realized that panic signing older/marginal/injury-prone players is not in the best interest of the team and is a recipe for mediocre results.

 

Hopefully this month he trades our Old timers with expiring contracts before seasons end so he gets something/anything for them or otherwise DOES NOT RESIGN THEM next year.  This team needs to speed up and get some grit soon so we can compete in 2-3 years when our stars hit prime and signing Senior citizens like Sutter, Edler and Co to long term overpriced contracts will kill that possibility.   I'd rather sacrifice 1-2 years of purge to actually see us be contenders.    Otherwise if JB and Aqua-Lini want to ice a marginal team then they can go ahead and keep signing Loui Eriksson, Roussel, Sutter and Beagle type deals (to name a few) to their hearts content - but don't count on the fans to get excited enough to spend $500 for a night out with the family at the game! 

Agree completely! Would love to see the bottom six retooled-largely dumped for picks. Our prospect pool (aside from Podz) needs some help as well. Our top six and Demko are pretty good. Bottom six and another D stud (R side) are what we lack.

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On 3/24/2021 at 3:04 PM, Convincing John said:

 

I remember clearly posting on here that his contract will handicap us when our rebuild is ready for takeoff and I got absolutely roasted. I also remember being roasted for saying the Ferland contract was a mistake as well. This is the time we should have the cap space. To fill the holes in the core. We filled the holes in the core before we had a core and now we are sitting here in limbo until all this garbage is cleared. 
 

the funny thing is. I’m not even excited for these contracts to expire. Because I know that Jim hates cap space. I know that he is going to fill those duds with more duds. For this reason I want him gone. Thanks for the core Jim but you’ve proven time and time again that you can’t handle the next phase. He is the framer, he is really good at framing a house but has no idea how to finish the rest. 

well said. Its sad that " fans" continue to call us ' REAL FANS" not real fans because we complain about idiots ruining our team and being paid millions of dollars to do it. Jim Benning SUCKS. HE IS A TERRIBLE GM AND HAS BEEN SINCE DAY ONE. The only thing he has done is draft well. IS that even HIM ?? JB has had nearly a DECADE to build this team and he continues to do the same stupid thing over and over which is OVER pay free agents who are AGING OUT OF THE NHL and are not worth the money they get in anyway. I am very sick of the canucks being a retirement team. FAs come here to cash in and retire.. what a joke this teams owners and management are.

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2 hours ago, TheNewGM said:

well said. Its sad that " fans" continue to call us ' REAL FANS" not real fans because we complain about idiots ruining our team and being paid millions of dollars to do it. Jim Benning SUCKS. HE IS A TERRIBLE GM AND HAS BEEN SINCE DAY ONE. The only thing he has done is draft well. IS that even HIM ?? JB has had nearly a DECADE to build this team and he continues to do the same stupid thing over and over which is OVER pay free agents who are AGING OUT OF THE NHL and are not worth the money they get in anyway. I am very sick of the canucks being a retirement team. FAs come here to cash in and retire.. what a joke this teams owners and management are.

Now I know why you are not our GM. You can’t even smell what JB is cooking. 

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How many absolute trash seasons is this guy gonna be allowed?  How many more high picks and non playoff seasons before we're officially the Oilers of seasons past?  Benning has been terrible since his very first move of signing Vrbata & Miller instead of selling assets to rebuild.  Imagine the team this would be if Benning and our scouts had a bunch of extra draft picks for a few years.  Instead we get a bottom feeder with no cap space.  

 

Been listening to Canucks radio and podcasts a lot and there were more callers excited about the Kraken than our upcoming season.  

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If you are a season ticket holder or bought packages, cancel or refund those right now if possible and tweet the refund or cancellation receipt to Aqua so he knows that we as a fan base are fed up with JB and his meddling. 

 

The only language Aqua knows is the bottom line. Make him lose so much money that he will either change his antics or forced to sell the team.

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