2021 UFA's signings (Discussion)

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Was apparently not an option this past-off season.  Buying out a player creates cap space - ie more room to spend money but also costs ownership more.  Here it’s a 500K buyout cap hit but at a cost to ownership of 3.8M over 2 years.  It creates an additional 3.8M to spend.  So it’s not really saving money as that 3.8M in additional cap space will likely be used up. 

 

It is highly dependent on what options you have to fill the void left by the player that is bought out. Are those options better for the team? And is the total cost lower? 

 

For example, if you buy out Eriksson, you will still have to pay him $1m signing bonus in 2021, plus $1m salary in 2021 and $1m salary in 2022. The total cost is $3m of real cash. This compares to $4m ($1m signing bonus + $3m salary in 2021) real cash, if you don't buy him out. So the net saving of the buy out is $1m of real cash. Theoretically, you need to fill the void created by buying out Eriksson in 2021 (some may argue he won't be on the team anyway). If you can replace him with a player earning $1m in 2021, then the real cash cost is the same whether you buy out Eriksson or not. 

 

Since the true cost is the same whether you buy him out or not, then consider the additional benefits to a buy out:

1. Significant reduction in cap hit in 2021 ($2m cap hit saving), albeit with a $1m cap hit in 2022 (but this is at a time when we have much more space available)

2. Opening up the spot to a younger hungry player on that $1m contract (e.g. Jasek, Lind, Gadjovich)

 

I think this is a no brainer to buy out Eriksson.

 

What about Holtby and Roussel?

 

A Holtby buy out will save $1.9m in real cash. I agree with @Elias Pettersson that we could get a backup for less real cash than $1.9m. Someone like UFA Drieger could be had for less than $1.5m x 2 years (buy time for MDP to develop into a NHL backup). Cap saving is $3.8m in 2021 and but an additional cap hit of $1.9m in 2022.

 

A Roussel buy out will save $633k in real cash. This is not enough to pay for a replacement player, but if there is a younger hungrier player pushing Rous out of his spot then a $367k top up to pay for a $1m player may be worth it. The cap saving is $1.3m in 2021 and an additional cap hit of $0.63 in 2022. This buy out is marginal.

 

I think the above shows that buying out Eriksson + Holtby would be beneficial to the team and ownership.

Total cap savings of $5.8m in 2021, when cap space is very tight.

Extra cap hit of $2.9m in 2022, when we have a decent amount of cap space available.

Overall less real cash paid.

Edited March 16, 2021 by BigTramFan

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

I have the same buyout numbers.  Buying Holtby out is a 500K cap hit and costs 2x 1.9M.  It creates an additional 3.8M in cap space.  Aren’t you using up that cap space created?  Using up that space costs additional money to ownership.

 

Ownership saves 900K only if the remaining 2.8M in cap space after adding the 1M backup remain unused otherwise it’s an additional spending.

 

Well okay then that makes sense, so now we will just have to make sure that Loui pulls his groin and goes on LTIR next season.  Hopefully his contract is insured...  

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

It is highly dependent on what options you have to fill the void left by the player that is bought out. Are those options better for the team? And is the total cost lower? 

 

For example, if you buy out Eriksson, you will still have to pay him $1m signing bonus in 2021, plus $1m salary in 2021 and $1m salary in 2022. The total cost is $3m of real cash. This compares to $4m ($1m signing bonus + $3m salary in 2021) real cash, if you don't buy him out. So the net saving of the buy out is $1m of real cash. Theoretically, you need to fill the void created by buying out Eriksson in 2021 (some may argue he won't be on the team anyway). If you can replace him with a player earning $1m in 2021, then the real cash cost is the same whether you buy out Eriksson or not. 

 

Since the true cost is the same whether you buy him out or not, then consider the additional benefits to a buy out:

1. Significant reduction in cap hit in 2021 ($2m cap hit saving), albeit with a $1m cap hit in 2022 (but this is at a time when we have much more space available)

2. Opening up the spot to a younger hungry player on that $1m contract (e.g. Jasek, Lind, Gadjovich)

 

I think this is a no brainer to buy out Eriksson.

 

What about Holtby and Roussel?

 

A Holtby buy out will save $1.9m in real cash. I agree with @Elias Pettersson that we could get a backup for less real cash than $1.9m. Someone like UFA Drieger could be had for less than $1.5m x 2 years (buy time for MDP to develop into a NHL backup). Cap saving is $3.8m in 2021 and but an additional cap hit of $1.9m in 2022.

 

A Roussel buy out will save $633k in real cash. This is not enough to pay for a replacement player, but if there is a younger hungrier player pushing Rous out of his spot then a $367k top up to pay for a $1m player may be worth it. The cap saving is $1.3m in 2021 and an additional cap hit of $0.63 in 2022. This buy out is marginal.

 

I think the above shows that buying out Eriksson + Holtby would be beneficial to the team and ownership.

Total cap savings of $5.8m in 2021, when cap space is very tight.

Extra cap hit of $2.9m in 2022, when we have a decent amount of cap space available.

Overall less real cash paid.

Good points all around.  The other thing to consider is that if we keep these anchor contracts on the books, Eriksson and Holtby specifically, what is that going to do to the fanbase, are they going to show up to the rink if we suck again next year?  This year was an easy decision to just stay put and not eat any bad contracts as there is no revenue from fans anyways.  Next year is a different story.  Also, what about the playoffs?  Isn't there a financial benefit for Aquilini to allow Benning to make the team better so we can reach the playoffs and then Aquilini can recoup his money from the buyouts and maybe make a few extra million while retaining the fanbase?

 

At the end of the day the owner can look at the numbers and just stay put, knowing his costs are controlled, or he can take a risk to try and make the team better so we can make the playoffs and improve as an organization.  Not buying out contracts just for the sake of saving some cash may not be in Aquilini's best interests long term.  I think Aquilini is a fan as well, he was a season ticket holder since he was a teenager, his family lived only a few blocks from the Pacific Coliseum in East Vancouver where all the other Italians lived.  He bought this team to obviously make money as a real estate developer, but he also bought it because he really does want to win a Stanley Cup.

[Junkyard Dog]

It all depends how much cap we have left over and/or can get rid of. 
 

IMO we could use the following. 

 

3rd C

Top 6 RW

Top 4 RD

 

We have a plethora of wingers that can play in the bottom 6 next year(Virtanen/Gaud/Pod/Hawryluk/Mac/Lind?/Lockwood?/Gadjovich?). We need a good 3rd C to play with these young wingers. Ideally we need a 50+ point winger with Bo and a D partner for Hughes(Maybe Hamonic?)

[MattJVD]

On 3/16/2021 at 5:15 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

It all depends how much cap we have left over and/or can get rid of. 
 

IMO we could use the following. 

 

3rd C

Top 6 RW

Top 4 RD

 

We have a plethora of wingers that can play in the bottom 6 next year(Virtanen/Gaud/Pod/Hawryluk/Mac/Lind?/Lockwood?/Gadjovich?). We need a good 3rd C to play with these young wingers. Ideally we need a 50+ point winger with Bo and a D partner for Hughes(Maybe Hamonic?)

I've got my eye on Wennberg or Huala for that 3C spot, what do you think of them?

[Junkyard Dog]

5 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

I've got my eye on Wennberg or Huala for that 3C spot, what do you think of them?

If they are willing to come cheap sure but after Petey/Hughes we probably won't have much cap. We still need to decide on Hamonic/Edler too.

 

IMO we should probably move Miller down to 3rd C with Hoglander on his line. We are going to have a lot of young wingers coming up needing someone solid to play with.

[MattJVD]

On 5/7/2021 at 7:31 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

If they are willing to come cheap sure but after Petey/Hughes we probably won't have much cap. We still need to decide on Hamonic/Edler too.

 

IMO we should probably move Miller down to 3rd C with Hoglander on his line. We are going to have a lot of young wingers coming up needing someone solid to play with.

Yeah, hard to tell what they'd go for. Wennberg is currently getting 2.25 (plus 900k that CBJ is paying him from the buyout). He's having a pretty good year, but my guess is he'll sign around 2.5 - 3. I'd like to keep Hamonic and I think he'll be inexpensive.

Emotionally, I'd love to keep Edler. I just really like the guy. But I don't know if he's actually a good fit going forward.

 

Having Miller as 3C (and power play 1) would be a luxury, but I think it might weaken our top 6 too much.

 

Edit: of course I say this, and then Wennberg goes and scores a hat-trick and sets a new career high in goals. Probably out of our price range now lol

Edited May 9, 2021 by MattJVD

[IBatch]

On 3/16/2021 at 12:31 AM, janisahockeynut said:

I think people are mis-understanding me a little

I am not advocating whole sale signings................

and as most say, we have Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Gaudette, Tryamkin,

and assorted other Canuck UFA's that Benning wants to sign

We are all in agreement of that...............

Further more, I am in agreement of promotion form within.....

aka, Possibly Podkolzin, Lind, Jasek, Rathbone and DiPietro

However, we are loosing Pearson, Sutter, Edler, Benn and Hamonic to UFA free agency

My point is, we should be moving these guys, with a plan of replacing them

either through promotion from with in, or by Cheap UFA signings, as as I pointed out

this is the year to do it, because there will be lots coming off of 1 year deals

So, I suggest, Benning looks at these guys, and focus's on 1 or 2

I want to point out that despite Benning's declaration, I would like to point out that no team

becomes a contender and champion without players that have been brought in

These next few years will be unlike any other years before, as players are signing cheap deals

So veterans that are under contract, but will not be around for the years we are contenders

should be considered expendable as well..............this includes the above UFA;s 

Pearson, Sutter, Edler, Benn and Hamonic

But should also at the very least include Myers and Schmidt, with even Miller being considered

IF the right deal comes around (I doubt Miller, but it does underline my point)

This all has been underlined by Benning, who has stated we are several years away from competing

Again I am not saying blow it up, I am not saying move all vets

But I am saying Benning should not leave any stoned unturned............

What I am tasking all you with, is to consider the options.......consider the return, and consider the up grades

That is all.............

 

 

 

JB will for sure be signing some free agents to fill some holes.   Maybe even this off season.   Savard and Hamilton if either makes it that far, both are worth clearing cap space for.    Hamonic might be back too.   If the right guy is available ...   And the following year for sure we will be adding a top four D.    And probably a winger or C. 

[Junkyard Dog]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:39 AM, MattJVD said:

Yeah, hard to tell what they'd go for. Wennberg is currently getting 2.25 (plus 900k that CBJ is paying him from the buyout). He's having a pretty good year, but my guess is he'll sign around 2.5 - 3. I'd like to keep Hamonic and I think he'll be inexpensive.

Emotionally, I'd love to keep Edler. I just really like the guy. But I don't know if he's actually a good fit going forward.

 

Having Miller as 3C (and power play 1) would be a luxury, but I think it might weaken our top 6 too much.

 

Edit: of course I say this, and then Wennberg goes and scores a hat-trick and sets a new career high in goals. Probably out of our price range now lol

I am focused on development next year hence why I like Miller 3rd C(and #1PP).
 

My lines would be 

 

Pod-Petey-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Lind

Gadjo-Miller-Hoglander. 
 

Horvat’s line matches up with top competition which would be good experience for Lind. Lind can take faceoffs on 2nd unit PP.

 

Miller gets Hoglander and someone who can finish around the net and crest some space in Gadjo. They’ll face lesser competition 5v5 and Hoglander/Miller have already proven capable to score which are good line mates for Gadjo to start. 
 

Petey/Boeser have proven capable of scoring just together before. They also wouldn’t be relied on as much 5v5 with having a 3rd line that can score. They’re only without Miller 5v5 as PP1 stays the same. Pod’s the type of guy you are gonna want stars playing with. Potentially could be a Landeskog to our Mackinnon/Rantanen(Petey/Boeser). Petey also needs to play C. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am focused on development next year hence why I like Miller 3rd C(and #1PP).
 

My lines would be 

 

Pod-Petey-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Lind

Gadjo-Miller-Hoglander. 
 

Horvat’s line matches up with top competition which would be good experience for Lind. Lind can take faceoffs on 2nd unit PP.

 

Miller gets Hoglander and someone who can finish around the net and crest some space in Gadjo. They’ll face lesser competition 5v5 and Hoglander/Miller have already proven capable to score which are good line mates for Gadjo to start. 
 

Petey/Boeser have proven capable of scoring just together before. They also wouldn’t be relied on as much 5v5 with having a 3rd line that can score. They’re only without Miller 5v5 as PP1 stays the same. Pod’s the type of guy you are gonna want stars playing with. Potentially could be a Landeskog to our Mackinnon/Rantanen(Petey/Boeser). Petey also needs to play C. 

I'm also hoping Podz comes in and makes an impact, and that the team can graduate to use Miller to create three scoring lines.    Curiously Hogs plays LW...and Podz R...Do think that gives the teams options to load up two lines or start pursuing a 3 line attack.   

 

Two things is like to try:

 

EP-Miller- Podz 

 

I think if EP is moved off the C spot, that he's got the potential to explode like Chicago did with Patrick Kane, or become a Panarin type player, that is a very solid defensive and producing winger.  Worth a shot anyways.   

 

Or a combination like you've suggested but with guys mostly playing their natural spots.

 

Hogs EP BB

Pearson Horvat Podz

Motte/ ?? Miller Lind 

 

I'm also hoping that Podz becomes our Rantanen.   Had a growth spurt after we drafted him and is now 6'4 210...same size as Linden and Rantanen...that's a big forward and he plays like Motte, full attack puck hound, excellent passer and also has a great shot   ... 

 

THN thinks 4 of our top 5 prospects will play in the NHL next season  ... Lind isn't one of them (6), if this is true JB comments about no longer needed free agents because guys that take longer to develop will finally be here...we are in for a great future starting next season in our own division.   Team needs another game breaker, Podz appears to be one.     That's a lot of young talent ... actually matched up well with OTT.   Hogs is top four in EV scoring for rookies and plays less minutes then the guys above him (and little to no quality PP time).    Out scoring most of his draft class as well.   

 

Seems ordinary now for Vancouver to add a blue chip or two each season...exactly what we need. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by IBatch

[MattJVD]

I probably wouldn't put Podkolzin (and definitely would not put Lind) in the top 6 to start. If they earn it throughout the year, great. 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Motte-Wennberg/Haula/Danault-Podkolzin

Highmore-Beagle-Lind

 

(Maybe even Cizikas as a more budget option at 3C?)

 

It would be great to have one of the rookies steal a top 6 spot and demote Pearson, but I'm not counting on it out of camp.

Edited May 12, 2021 by MattJVD

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, MattJVD said:

I probably wouldn't put Podkolzin (and definitely would not put Lind) in the top 6 to start. If they earn it throughout the year, great. 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Motte-Wennberg/Haula/Danault/-Podkolzin

Highmore-Beagle-Lind

 

(Maybe even Cizikas as a more budget options at 3C?)

 

It would be great to have one of the rookies steal a top 6 spot and demote Pearson, but I'm not counting on it out of camp.

Yes they have to earn it.  Just like Hogs did right off the hop this season with little practice.   Hogs is a LW playing his off side ... Podz a much higher touted prospect.   Given Hogs 5 x 5 scoring per sixty isn't much different then our best guys ... move him up or move Pearson down .. you should be counting on it ... Podz at 10-12 is much higher then a lot of others guys that have come into the league the last couple of years and made a statement.  Seasoned.   Buried.   His size and possession, elite passing and shot won't take long to break into our top six.  JV is gone.   BB won't get moved.  Hogs will move up a line or replace Pearson almost guaranteed. 

[R3aL]

If we have to deploy Miller as a C next season maybe we could sign Coleman for a reasonable deal For Petey, and one of savard or hamonic for Hughes.

 

 

 

[KKnight]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:45 PM, mll said:

Benning on free agency last August.  If he plans for the team to be competitive in 2 years would expect prospects to get the opportunity.

 

I still think there are some players to keep tabs on. Hyman being one, Bozak for a year being another, defensive depth. A lot depends on who gets selected by Seattle too. Might need a goalie, Raanta could be an option. But, big named free agents is what we should stay away from.

[KKnight]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:32 AM, MattJVD said:

I probably wouldn't put Podkolzin (and definitely would not put Lind) in the top 6 to start. If they earn it throughout the year, great. 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Motte-Wennberg/Haula/Danault-Podkolzin

Highmore-Beagle-Lind

 

(Maybe even Cizikas as a more budget option at 3C?)

 

It would be great to have one of the rookies steal a top 6 spot and demote Pearson, but I'm not counting on it out of camp.

That lineup could go either way. It looks on paper like we wouldn't have enough scoring, but a lot would depend on internal growth. 

[D-Money]

On 3/15/2021 at 1:35 PM, janisahockeynut said:

I am of the opinion, that this years 2021 UFA's will still be signing Covid contracts

I somewhat disagree. For 3 reasons:

 

1) Teams have had over a year to adjust to the flat cap. Last year it was a surprise no one was prepared for.

 

2) Teams need to convince fans to come back and part with their money for tickets next year. A high-profile free agent signing builds interest and sells tickets.
 

3) There are 23 more jobs available next season. Every team (except Vegas) is going to lose someone on the expansion draft, in many cases freeing up money along with them. Many teams will be looking to fill holes, there will be lots of competition.

 

Because of this, I suspect this year’s free agency period to more resemble previous years than the one-off of last year.

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I somewhat disagree. For 3 reasons:

 

1) Teams have had over a year to adjust to the flat cap. Last year it was a surprise no one was prepared for.

 

2) Teams need to convince fans to come back and part with their money for tickets next year. A high-profile free agent signing builds interest and sells tickets.
 

3) There are 23 more jobs available next season. Every team (except Vegas) is going to lose someone on the expansion draft, in many cases freeing up money along with them. Many teams will be looking to fill holes, there will be lots of competition.

 

Because of this, I suspect this year’s free agency period to more resemble previous years than the one-off of last year.

Here is the thing

 

There will be players coming into the league (ELC), who will be pushing guys out, and because of the flat cap, teams will have to do this, because in some cases (like the Canucks) teams will have stars that will need huge jumps........aka 1M to 6 M (That is a big jump X2), so there will not be as much easy money available.

 

I am not saying that players like Hamilton will not get his 8 Million, but the lesser's will be taking less (IMO of course)

[DownUndaCanuck]

I don't see JB making any signings but we clearly have a massive hole at the center spot with Beagle out. Michaelis and Graovac have been brutal for us, they're really just AHLers, and they've been feasted on defensively by other teams so far in their limited ice time.

 

There are lots of decent bottom-6 centers out there who we could desperately use to fill some roster holes. Even if Beagle does come back next season, we're 1 center injury away from disaster and there was a time this season where we had 3 out. Yes, Miller can slot in and play center, but we really struggled with 2-3 AHL centers.

 

I think JB has to make a decision on players like Beagle (just because of his injury, not his play), Roussel (try and move him) and Virtanen (see what comes from a trial). We've got lots of great young players in the fold coming up who can take Roussel and Virtanen's spots, and even Edler for that matter, but not really anyone to replace Sutter and Beagle just yet. The Vesey and Boyd experiment certainly wasn't a great one.

[eeeeergh]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:32 AM, MattJVD said:

I probably wouldn't put Podkolzin (and definitely would not put Lind) in the top 6 to start. If they earn it throughout the year, great. 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Motte-Wennberg/Haula/Danault-Podkolzin

Highmore-Beagle-Lind

 

(Maybe even Cizikas as a more budget option at 3C?)

 

It would be great to have one of the rookies steal a top 6 spot and demote Pearson, but I'm not counting on it out of camp.

The more I think about it, the more I feel Sutter is our best bet at 3C if we can re-sign him to a cheap deal. Hes a faceoff beast, actually put up pretty decent numbers (pace for 15-18 goals if he played 82 games), and could likely be convinced to come in at a very team friendly deal. At 1.5m/year he would be a no-brainer. Get an upgrade on the wing - someone who can score, so Motte can play on the 4th line. Lind can be the 13th man and slot in for injuries. If Sutter gets injured, Miller can drop down to play C, and with Podkolzin and another skilled winger, Vancouver's now got 3 scoring lines. If Sutter goes on LTIR and we're competitive that year, we can make a splash and trade for a replacement 3C.
 

Ideas for that winger.. I think we try to pick up someone from a cap stretched team like Tampa. Maybe Killorn? 

Miller-EP-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander
Killorn-Sutter-Podkolzin
Motte-Beagle-Highmore

All this is predicated on JB actually moving enough money out (Virt, Louie buyouts, Holtby expansion draft). If he isn't, I'd prioritize shoring up our D corps with a proper shutdown defenseman. I think Edler is retiring, so something like this:

Savard-Hughes
Hamonic-Rathbone
Myers-Schmidt
Juolevi
Chatfield

[R3aL]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:18 PM, eeeeergh said:

The more I think about it, the more I feel Sutter is our best bet at 3C if we can re-sign him to a cheap deal. Hes a faceoff beast, actually put up pretty decent numbers (pace for 15-18 goals if he played 82 games), and could likely be convinced to come in at a very team friendly deal. At 1.5m/year he would be a no-brainer. Get an upgrade on the wing - someone who can score, so Motte can play on the 4th line. Lind can be the 13th man and slot in for injuries. If Sutter gets injured, Miller can drop down to play C, and with Podkolzin and another skilled winger, Vancouver's now got 3 scoring lines. If Sutter goes on LTIR and we're competitive that year, we can make a splash and trade for a replacement 3C.
 

Ideas for that winger.. I think we try to pick up someone from a cap stretched team like Tampa. Maybe Killorn? 

Miller-EP-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander
Killorn-Sutter-Podkolzin
Motte-Beagle-Highmore

All this is predicated on JB actually moving enough money out (Virt, Louie buyouts, Holtby expansion draft). If he isn't, I'd prioritize shoring up our D corps with a proper shutdown defenseman. I think Edler is retiring, so something like this:

Savard-Hughes
Hamonic-Rathbone
Myers-Schmidt
Juolevi
Chatfield

I have similar ideas.

 

btw Your d pairs are all backward.

 

heres some ideas don’t know if it works with cap tho:

 

sign:

 

- Hamonic or Savard whichever we can get in salary that works.

- blake Coleman 

- 1 year cheap deal for edler to help for both rathbone and juolevi to transition 

 

trade for Sam reinhart our 9th overall plus some salary maybe roussel 

 

virtanen / ferland salary gone

eriksson retires or bought out 

holtby claimed 

 

Coleman-Reinhart-Pettersson

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin

Highmore-Beagle-Motte

MacEwan/Lind

 

Hughes-Hamonic/Savard
Elder/Juolevi-Schmidt

Edler/Rathbone-Myers

Edler

 

demko

ufa

pp1

 

horvat-Miller-petey-Boeser

hughes

 

pp2

 

Coleman-reinhart-Hoglander

rathbone-Schmidt