Ian Clark chances of contract renewal

[Gurn]

2 hours ago, Josepho said:

Brackett left because he didn't want Benning to meddle with who he picked

I never, ever saw Brackett quoted on that.

[Gurn]

On 3/24/2021 at 11:33 AM, kilgore said:

Sure, Clark can go anywhere he wants.  And none of us can see into his mind

True

Next sentences

On 3/24/2021 at 11:33 AM, kilgore said:

But why start over on another team, to learn and work with their systems, if you are happy with your salary, and working conditions and challenges where you are?  Why would he move, just for moving sake?  

Tries to see into Clarke's mind.      

[Josepho]

11 minutes ago, gurn said:

I never, ever saw Brackett quoted on that.

He obviously wouldn't explicitly talk $&!# about his former organization, but sources were indicating there was tension between him and Benning.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/patrick-johnston-are-the-canucks-judd-brackett-headed-in-different-directions -- This source implies Brackett was the main guy pushing for Pettersson and that there were heated debates about it, implying Benning wanted Glass.

 

https://theathletic.com/2333370/2021/01/20/canucks-hoglander-draft-scout-pettersson/ -- this source shows that Benning essentially meddled and picked Hoglander, mainly posting this to prove that this isn't just me pushing an "anti-Jim" agenda.

 

I don't know if Benning running the scouting department will be better or worse for the team, but this is pretty obviously not a case where Brackett just wanted to move on or whatever. If Jim is still here for our next draft, it should be very telling.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Josepho

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, Josepho said:

He obviously wouldn't explicitly talk $&!# about his former organization, but sources were indicating there was tension between him and Benning.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/patrick-johnston-are-the-canucks-judd-brackett-headed-in-different-directions -- This source implies Brackett was the main guy pushing for Pettersson and that there were heated debates about it, implying Benning wanted Glass.

 

https://theathletic.com/2333370/2021/01/20/canucks-hoglander-draft-scout-pettersson/ -- this argument shows that Benning essentially meddled and picked Hoglander, mainly posting this to prove that this isn't just me pushing an "anti-Jim" agenda.

 

I don't know if Benning running the scouting department will be better or worse for the team, but this is pretty obviously not a case where Brackett just wanted to move on or whatever. If Jim is still here for our next draft, it should be very telling.

Nothing but spec. good thing to build a case on,   not.

your spec or some "reporters" spec.

 

no quotes, just stuff people throw onto the wall.

 

[Josepho]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Nothing but spec. good thing to build a case on,   not.

your spec or some "reporters" spec.

 

no quotes, just stuff people throw onto the wall.

 

That's speculation, but the "he just wanted to move on" narrative isn't?

 

Someone like Johnston isn't going to completely make $&!# up, especially since lawsuits can arise from that sort of thing.

 

If you don't believe that, maybe you can believe this: https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1266475493915754501/

Edited March 26, 2021 by Josepho

[Josepho]

delete

Edited March 26, 2021 by Josepho

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, Josepho said:

Someone like Johnston isn't going to completely make $&!# u

An article where Patrick "hears things" and "starts to wonder" lol

 

 

[Josepho]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

An article where Patrick "hears things" and "starts to wonder" lol

 

 

he hears things and starts to wonder things that are later mentioned by judd himself: https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1266475493915754501/

 

maybe these reporters actually know what they're talking about and aren't pulling ideas out of their ass.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Josepho

[aGENT]

52 minutes ago, Josepho said:

That's speculation, but the "he just wanted to move on" narrative isn't?

 

Someone like Johnston isn't going to completely make $&!# up, especially since lawsuits can arise from that sort of thing.

 

If you don't believe that, maybe you can believe this: https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1266475493915754501/

We have a GM with a scouting background who is heavily involved in the team's scouting department. And as far as I can tell, based on our 25 and under group, it's a good thing he's heavily involved. He's also the guy that identified Judd and gave him the tools to go from a middling depth scout with little in the way of home runs, to a head scout of one of the league's better prospect pools.

 

It's it really that surprising that Judd would look for a role on a team with a less scouting-involved GM, that had less oversight, to stretch his wings and advance his career? Maybe even as a stepping stone to becoming an AGM?

 

This stuff happens ALL THE TIME. Guys get better opportunities on different teams across the league. There's no reason to turn this in to some melodramatic cloak and dagger nonsense. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by aGENT

[Josepho]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

We have a GM with a scouting background who is heavily involved in the team's scouting department. And as far as I can tell, based on our 25 and under group, it's a good thing he's heavily involved. He's also the guy that identified Judd and gave him the tools to go from a middling depth scout with little in the way of home runs, to a head scout of one of the league's better prospect pools.

 

It's it really that surprising that Judd would look for a role on a team with a less scouting-involved GM, that had less oversight, to stretch his wings and advance his career? Maybe even as a stepping stone to becoming an AGM?

 

This stuff happens ALL THE TIME. Guys get better opportunities on different teams across the league. There's no reason to turn this in to some melodramatic cloak and dagger nonsense. 

My entire point is that Brackett wasn't just leaving for a change of scenery or whatever, there was a specific reason relating to our front office.

 

I stated already that Brackett leaving may or may not matter. If our drafting becomes worse after he leaves, would you not agree that Benning should've backed off and let Judd do his thing? I will gladly admit that I was wrong if our drafting is good after Judd leaves.

 

Maybe if Benning spent less time amateur scouting and more time pro scouting, he'd actually do a better job at building a supporting cast for our core.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Josepho

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Josepho said:

I stated already that Brackett leaving may or may not matter. If our drafting becomes worse after he leaves, would you not agree that Benning should've backed off and let Judd do his thing?

Our post-Judd draft last year already received solid reviews, particularly considering we didn't pick until the third.

 

I'm not particularly concerned personally. Bening is the guy that identified Judd and helped give him the tools to become the scout he has become.

 

You have to also remember it takes two to tango. Judd had to want to stay here too. Under a GM with a scouting background who was/is always going to be heavily involved in the draft. I'd wager Judd left more than we're didn't want him back. Benning likely had a lot less say in that situation than the people 'blaming' him for it think he did.

 

1 minute ago, Josepho said:

Maybe if Benning spent less time amateur scouting and more time pro scouting, he'd actually do a better job at building a supporting cast for our core.

Overblown IMO. We're a rebuilding team and Benning has been adding support pieces as we go and some of them have been drafted and are still developing. It's a process. That's what those next two years are for that Benning mentioned... continue too develop/grow our YOUNG core and drafted support players, weed out the ill fitting pieces (Virtanen IMHO) and trade/sign for guys to supplement them.

 

I'm perfectly fine with his 'pro scouting' adding the likes of Myers, Motte, Miller, Schmidt, Hamonic, Holtby, Beagle etc. Shame about Ferland's concussion issues, he would have been the EXACT player this team needs if healthy. Heck, even the Vesey and Boyd adds are decent moves to see if they can be depth puzzle pieces moving forward in this little audition they're getting with injuries.

[JM_]

5 hours ago, Josepho said:

Brackett left because he didn't want Benning to meddle with who he picked.

do you seriously expect a GM to hand over all control of picks to his head scout? no competent GM would do that. Its not Judds team for gods sake 

 

 

5 hours ago, Josepho said:

If our drafting turns to $&!# after Judd leaves, will people maybe admit that Benning isn't some super scout, and that the Hughes/Pettersson picks shouldn't give Benning infinite job security?

I think there are people on here who would want that. 

[alt kilgore]

"Why would he move, just for moving sake?"

 

3 hours ago, gurn said:

Tries to see into Clarke's mind.      

 

Exactly...tries.  You do know the difference between simply asking why, and trying to understand why a person would think to do something just for the sake of doing it, is different than actually magically claiming to see into someones mind right?

 

So if "trying" to see, is the same thing, then for you, in your own Clark mind reading session, its just as plausible that Clark may be refusing a Canuck offer, in order to pull up roots once again, for the heck of it, to see some other scenery other than BC. And forego finishing the job of coaching a rising young star to the next level on a team on the cusp of greatness for something new, no matter what the offer.  Fair enough.  Just don't rag on others for doing the same thing. 

 

And just so you know going forward....  "speculating" is a big part of a hockey message board.  And its laughable that someone who provides no sources or quotes themselves from industry insiders/reporters, poo poos others who do provide those kind of sources to back up their own speculation.  I could be wrong. I always will say that. None of us CAN read Bennings mind, unfortunately. We can only speculate based on his past decision making abilities.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by kilgore

[Josepho]

43 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

do you seriously expect a GM to hand over all control of picks to his head scout? no competent GM would do that. Its not Judds team for gods sake 

 

 

I think there are people on here who would want that. 

 

 

He mostly is deferring to others in this video, so yeah. I don't see an issue with it. As a GM, there's nothing wrong with deferring to competent people.

[Petey40]

6 hours ago, Josepho said:

Brackett left because he didn't want Benning to meddle with who he picked.

 

If our drafting turns to $&!# after Judd leaves, will people maybe admit that Benning isn't some super scout, and that the Hughes/Pettersson picks shouldn't give Benning infinite job security?

Source?

[Gurn]

Some people- "Brackett left because J.B. changed things on him.

 

Me "But Brackett was ok with J.B. changing things when he promoted Jud"

[Petey40]

3 hours ago, Josepho said:

He obviously wouldn't explicitly talk $&!# about his former organization, but sources were indicating there was tension between him and Benning.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/patrick-johnston-are-the-canucks-judd-brackett-headed-in-different-directions -- This source implies Brackett was the main guy pushing for Pettersson and that there were heated debates about it, implying Benning wanted Glass.

 

https://theathletic.com/2333370/2021/01/20/canucks-hoglander-draft-scout-pettersson/ -- this source shows that Benning essentially meddled and picked Hoglander, mainly posting this to prove that this isn't just me pushing an "anti-Jim" agenda.

 

I don't know if Benning running the scouting department will be better or worse for the team, but this is pretty obviously not a case where Brackett just wanted to move on or whatever. If Jim is still here for our next draft, it should be very telling.

Oh no.. Benning chose Hoglander?? That’s devastating  maybe Benning chose Hoglander cause he was right lol 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Josepho said:

 

 

He mostly is deferring to others in this video, so yeah. I don't see an issue with it. As a GM, there's nothing wrong with deferring to competent people.

you say deferring, but Jims the guy making the final call.