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[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Winnipeg Jets | March 24, 2021 | 7:30 p.m. PT | SNP

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2 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

Myers was out there again longer than he should (especially with the second period long change). He thought he could stay out longer, and got caught. The way I see this, it is his fault, he could have got off the ice earlier. This isn't the first, second or third time that happened either. It seems to be a regular stat on TV. Myers shift is at... how many seconds?

Myers was standing still and off in the corner. It is up to Hamonic to make the smart play and not handcuff his teammate. Hamonic clearly wasn't paying attention to the game if it didn't realize how long Myers had been out there. It's called reading the play and understanding the situation your teammate is in. 

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2 minutes ago, Cromeslab said:

I think JB has a good roster givin what he’s had to work with.We need to shift focus on drafting D

He has drafted them Green refuses to play Juolevi. Hopefully Rathbone and Tryamkin get a crack next year. 

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14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Good GM's are also able to draft a good core.  That's what Benning has done.  Drafting a good core is much harder than signing and trading for bottom 6 players and 3rd pairing defencemen.  Benning has taken this ship close to the dock.  He should be allowed to drive it in and park it.

Yes, no doubt he has built a good core but he isn't the right captain to dock it. His failure on UFA signings and most trades is what is holding this team back and his glaring weakness. I have no issue if he's moved into a scouting directors role but someone else needs to be brought in to make the necessary trades/ signings / contract extensions to take us to the next level. That goes for Green and his coaching staff as well.

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Just now, Outsiders said:

He has drafted them Green refuses to play Juolevi. Hopefully Rathbone and Tryamkin get a crack next year. 

I know right I want o see Ollie play again this year,why not?

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40 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Ideally we should have started the rebuild 7 years ago not 3 or 4 but there were circumstances and we took a different route. I don’t blame Benning for that. We don’t have much for awards but the franchise has pride and Sedins were part of that. I was excited for this year too and thought we had more to show then we’ve shown (I’m still gonna Homer to the end) but as soon as people realize how close we are to getting to that next level the better. 
 

It funny cause the playoffs last year got a lot of people excited my self included but for some it wouldn’t have mattered if they didn’t do what they did last year. We are still having the same discussion. This year doesn’t take away that step our young core took last year, we just have to take another one even if circumstances made us a take a half a step back. 
 

I remember someone made a thread last off-season about this very thing. I agreed but my hopefulness got the better of me that we would be even better then last year 

You're right, this season won't undo the experience of playing a variation of playoff hockey.  That's true.  But at the the same time, that's just it.  We can ask ourselves did this season have to go the way it has and we can honestly answer: no, it didn't. 

 

Under more organized, perhaps competent management, this team, with players like Pettersson and Hughes on ELCs, Horvat, Miller, and Boeser all signed at very affordable deals, could have positioned themselves to have improved the team so much and build off what they accomplished in the bubble.  If they hadn't botched the 2018 and 2019 FA periods - the time where the Sedins were off the books, they would have had tons of cap-space that would have gave them the luxury to consider targeting/going after a top defenceman like Pietrangelo to add to their core, instead of having to luck out with Schmidt and waiting to sign a finished Hamonic a day before the season started.  They could have comfortably considered re-signing Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli instead of having to consider different combinations to fit their cap situation and end up losing them all, while scrambling to find adequate replacements.  A lot of people like to cite hindsight or "the market" with those off-seasons but the truth is, it's not either of those.  Many people could have predicted that going the route of term and money on a bottom six player, let alone multiple of them, does not end well.  Heck, even before all that money came off the books, we went money and term on a legitimate top 6 player in Eriksson and that didn't even start well.  We could have learned from our mistakes there but we didn't.  The other point in this is that if the market is developing to the point where these bottom six guys are "worth" 3M+ annually, it doesn't take a genius to say "Hmm, maybe we should consider some cheaper alternatives while we are building our team".

 

At the end of the day, what's done is done.  We can't change the fact that we wasted a year of ELCs due to some poor planning, decision-making, and execution, but what we can do is acknowledge this fact and ask ourselves if we deserve better from management.  If we do that, I think the answer is clear that yes, we do and we aren't unreasonable to want a change.

Edited by Alain Vigneault
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2 minutes ago, Cromeslab said:

Is Ollie injured cuz I fail to understand why he can’t slot in

Think they are “hiding” him from Seattle 

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35 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

I appreciate the effort to provide a lengthy post here and I think your plea comes from an honest place.  With that said, we have to look at some things.

 

1.  Benning has been on the job for nearly 7 years.  Suits and ties in the NHL don't usually get that long, and they certainly don't get there without some sort of visible, tangible success.  In 7 years, what are Benning's accomplishments?  2 playoff appearances (one of which a "play-in") and...some picks in the top 10?  Is that worthy enough for you to warrant a tenure that long?

 

2.  You ask for more time but does he deserve it?  Sure, he drafted this core but how has he supported them to date?  Well, just this past off-season, he let a proven starting goalie walk in favour for an unproven starting goalie, he let a pair of reliable defencemen walk without getting enough adequate replacements, and after trading a high draft pick and B+ level prospect for a young, top 6 winger (a guy who fit the age group of the core) at the TD, he was forced to let that winger walk because of prior commitments made to players in the bottom of the lineup - the place where good teams don't typically commit their money.  Does this guy seem like he knows what he's doing?  Does he seem like he'll be responsible going forward?  You might look at J.T. Miller and say he made a great move there (he did) but that's only because the team didn't end up surrendering the potential lottery pick.  Ask yourself, if a team had missed the playoffs 5 out 6 seasons, would it have been responsible to move a 1st for 50 pt winger?  It worked out the best way it could have here but there was massive potential for it to have backfired.

 

The patience has run thin for Benning and rightfully so, he hasn't done much beyond the bare minimum (drafting in the top 10) for the team.

Marc Bergevin has been the GM of the Montreal Canadiens for 9 years.  During that time he has missed the playoffs 4 times and lost in the first round 3 times.  So his playoff record isn't that much better than Benning's, although he had two good runs in those 9 years.  His drafting has been mediocre at best.  He drafted Kotkaniemi at 3 and Benning took Hughes at 7.  The only real stud player he's ever drafted is Sergachev and he ended up trading him for a guy who is a one dimensional player.  Meanwhile Sergachev looks like a Norris trophy candidate right now.  He's also made some really dumb trades but has been better lately.  He's had a good run and to this day Montreal is still an average team.  Not much better than when he took over and not much in the way of stud core players coming in the pipeline.  In 9 years he's drafted 68 players, he really liked to collect those draft picks which is a good thing.  However, out of 68 players drafted only 8 have played over 100 games, and he's traded 4 of them.  That doesn't sound like a very successful GM to me, yet he still has his job to this day.  He's also on his 3rd coach and he's still around.  

 

That's just one example, but it does show that some owners have more patience than others.  Benning has made some mistakes in surrounding his core players.  That is undeniable even to the most loyal fan.  But at the end of the day we have one of the better group of young core players in the entire NHL, with more on the way.  I'm not saying Benning should have a lifetime contract just because of his drafting, but at the very least he should be allowed to ride out the rest of his contract and to see if he can make up for past mistakes and get a better surrounding cast for his core drafted players. 

 

I'd like to see Benning have another offseason and see what this team can do next year with a new coach.  A 3rd coach should be his last.  If it goes well then we are in good shape.  If it doesn't then we are looking at a new GM and probably a new rebuild for another 5-7 years.  

Edited by Elias Pettersson
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2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Think they are “hiding” him from Seattle 

I guess eh,outa sight,outa mind

Edited by Cromeslab
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18 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Oh wait, it's harder to draft the right players with some top 10 picks than signing and trading for bottom 6 players and 3 rd pairing D-Men. No. No. Fully disagree with this one.

Handing generous contracts with way too much term to the likes of Beagle and Roussel was poor negotiation from Jim and or his team.

Boeser, Demko and Hoglander aren't top 10 picks.  Nice try though...

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8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Marc Bergevin has been the GM of the Montreal Canadiens for 9 years.  During that time he has missed the playoffs 4 times and lost in the first round 3 times.  So his playoff record isn't that much better than Benning's, although he had two good runs in those 9 years.  His drafting has been mediocre at best.  He drafted Kotkaniemi at 3 and Benning took Hughes at 7.  The only real stud player he's ever drafted is Sergachev and he ended up trading him for a guy who is a one dimensional player.  Meanwhile Sergachev looks like a Norris trophy candidate right now.  He's also made some really dumb trades but has been better lately.  He's had a good run and to this day Montreal is still an average team.  Not much better than when he took over and not much in the way of stud core players coming in the pipeline.  In 9 years he's drafted 68 players, he really liked to collect those draft picks which is a good thing.  However, out of 68 players drafted only 8 have played over 100 games, and he's traded 4 of them.  That doesn't sound like a very successful GM to me, yet he still has his job to this day.  He's also on his 3rd coach and he's still around.  

 

That's just one example, but it does show that some owners have more patience than others.  Benning has made some mistakes in surrounding his core players.  That is undeniable even to the most loyal fan.  But at the end of the day we have one of the better group of young core players in the entire NHL, with more on the way.  I'm not saying Benning should have a lifetime contract just because of his drafting, but at the very least he should be allowed to ride out the rest of his contract and to see if he can make up for past mistakes and get a better surrounding cast for his core drafted players. 

 

I'd like to see Benning have another offseason and see what this team can do next year with a new coach.  A 3rd coach should be his last.  If it goes well then we are in good shape.  If it doesn't then we are looking at a new GM and probably a new rebuild for another 5-7 years.  

One thing you have to be aware of when using the X player has played X NHL games is adjusting for the strength of the team. 

 

As an example, Gaudette and Virtanen probably have extremely careers had they been drafted to a powerhouse team and probably don’t amass similar games played totals. 
 

This has been one of the worst teams in the league since 2015 - so bad players have played more than they would on a good team. 

 

But yes, Montreals drafting has been poor.

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