Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[kanucks25]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well... that is a good question. I suspect Jim sold Aqua on a faster version than Linden? hard to say for sure. 

 

I just think you have to look at this as two distinct Benning eras to understand it correctly. I guess it sucks if you hate both tho 

 

I do and it does. 

[Convincing John]

29 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

Serious question with no disrespect. How many great GMs would you say are out there looking for work?

Honestly man, you bring up a really good point. I seriously have no idea. 

edit: If Jim would stop spending like my x wife did, he would seriously be the best possible candidate. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Convincing John

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I do and it does. 

I get that. I just think there's a ton to be excited about thats not fluff or hope. 

[aGENT]

40 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Who mentioned Buffalo and Edmonton? Jeff Skinner? Lol. Like why is this always the counter argument?

Edit: This isn't a 'counter argument', it's what can happen if you don't properly support/insulate emerging youth. Your theory about not doing so and everything being a-ok is bunk.

 

40 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

The saddest thing about usingdmonton or Buffalo to validate our ghetto bottom 6 on a back to back Stanley Cup championship budget is Buffalo and Edmonton actually sucked on purpose. We legitimately tried to win every single year and failed miserably. If you want to start comparing Rebuilds/tools why don’t you guys pull up the best possible comparison imaginable? Our appointment in the 2011 SCF. They rebuilt on the fly. What about the Canadians? They used a similar method to Jim Benning, they got it done. I have absolutely no problem with signing vets. I have no problem with trading picks for the risk reward either. I have a problem with a manager who can’t properly execute his vision. Drafting. A+ Trading went from a D to a B- UFA signings and cap utilization. F- put those all together and you got a very average GM. You aren’t building a dynasty with an average GM. I’m sorry man. 

The Bruins had a young core to retool around (and an existing prospect pool). We had approaching retirement Sedins and empty cupboards. Apples and oranges.

Edited March 27, 2021 by aGENT

[Convincing John]

Just now, aGENT said:

The Bruins had a young core to retool around (and an existing prospect pool). We had approaching retirement Sedins and empty cupboards. Apples and oranges.

I would argue that Boston is a closer comparison then Edmonton and Buffalo. Canadians, being a Canadian market facing basically the same terrain are probably an even better comparison. They had nothing for prospects, really only Price to build around. They’ve done a better job using the same method as JB. That’s Apples to Apples. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Convincing John said:

I would argue that Boston is a closer comparison then Edmonton and Buffalo. Canadians, being a Canadian market facing basically the same terrain are probably an even better comparison. They had nothing for prospects, really only Price to build around. They’ve done a better job using the same method as JB. That’s Apples to Apples. 

Their core vets are still playing for them, ours are retired. How is that apples and apples?

 

 

[Convincing John]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Their core vets are still playing for them, ours are retired. How is that apples and apples?

 

 

What? Who? Weber? Who they traded  PK for when PLD didn’t fall to us? Gallager? Surely we can equalize him with Horvat as a player they had before the rebuild and from a prior regime. Price? We have had great goaltending this entire rebuild just like the Canadians. Petry? Great move, Benning was the GM of the Canucks when this happened, it was a good trade. We made a great trade for JT Miller. Actually the more I compare the 2 teams the more I agree with myself lol. 

 

[sockeye]

5 hours ago, Aladeen said:

Yup he ran out of time to make the adjustments need to keep TT and gain a top pairing Dman. That sucks it really does, but what can be done in a Covid cap crunch? To move anything would have costed more likely at least another 2nd or even a 1st to shuffle things to keep TT, talk about what kind of Bitching and Whining we would have had to read on CDC if he made those moves to "save embarrassing" some fans. Just look at the bitching and whining in the waiver pickup threads LOL and that's giving up no assets. 

 

TT grew up a habs fan, he probably jumped at the opportunity to play there and no doubt took a discount. 

Benning could've made cap room for TT if he really wanted to.  He could have signed and traded Virtanen and he would've had room to sign TT.  I have supported Jake in the past but this would've been the wise move.  Benning had a couple months to work things out from the end of the bubble until the end of free agency.  He should've known what he would be up against (re Covid and the cap) and he shouldn't have "run out of time" and end up losing assets for nothing except for freeing up a little cap space.

[kanucks25]

12 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Benning could've made cap room for TT if he really wanted to.  He could have signed and traded Virtanen and he would've had room to sign TT.  I have supported Jake in the past but this would've been the wise move.  Benning had a couple months to work things out from the end of the bubble until the end of free agency.  He should've known what he would be up against (re Covid and the cap) and he shouldn't have "run out of time" and end up losing assets for nothing except for freeing up a little cap space.

Yup.

 

Teams were informed of the flat cap as far back as last summer, which means a ton of time to plan accordingly. It's a baseless excuse.

 

Same as any other COVID-related excuse given every other team is operating under the same conditions.

 

 

[kanucks25]

58 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I get that. I just think there's a ton to be excited about thats not fluff or hope. 

I agree.

 

But IMO that can be the case and the GM can still be deserving of the axe.

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I agree.

 

But IMO that can be the case and the GM can still be deserving of the axe.

so what mistakes in the last 3 years specifically demand firing? and can you find a comparable firing for those reasons. 

[kanucks25]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

so what mistakes in the last 3 years specifically demand firing? and can you find a comparable firing for those reasons. 

The thing is, I don't agree that he should only be evaluated for the last 3 years just because his plan (allegedly) shifted after the first 4.

 

I've never really heard of this in sports - "ignore the majority of his tenure because that doesn't count, because"

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

The thing is, I don't agree that he should only be evaluated for the last 3 years just because his plan (allegedly) shifted after the first 4.

 

I've never really heard of this in sports - "ignore the majority of his tenure because that doesn't count, because"

well, maybe Aqulini is unique. He made a clear break from one era to the next, and hung on to 1/2 the management team in Jimbo. So there's the bright line.

 

If you don't have a big enough issue to fire Jim over in the last 3 years thats kind of a good thing, isn't it? 

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well, maybe Aqulini is unique. He made a clear break from one era to the next, and hung on to 1/2 the management team in Jimbo. So there's the bright line.

 

If you don't have a big enough issue to fire Jim over in the last 3 years thats kind of a good thing, isn't it? 

Myers

The overall handling of this past off-season

The overall handling of Virtanen (not cutting bait, especially this past off-season)

Holtby

Roussel

Beagle

Schaller

Any UFA that has walked for nothing in whatever time frame you like

 

Off the top of my head.

 

Is it worse than the first half of his tenure? Perhaps not, but that's a pretty low bar to set, is it not?

 

[Toyotasfan]

Definitely a defining offseason coming up, lots of money moving and vets leaving. 

[Aladeen]

2 hours ago, sockeye said:

Benning could've made cap room for TT if he really wanted to.  He could have signed and traded Virtanen and he would've had room to sign TT.  I have supported Jake in the past but this would've been the wise move.  Benning had a couple months to work things out from the end of the bubble until the end of free agency.  He should've known what he would be up against (re Covid and the cap) and he shouldn't have "run out of time" and end up losing assets for nothing except for freeing up a little cap space.

You’re assuming TT was willing to sign for what he signed for in Montreal, you don’t know that’s the case at all.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

Definitely a defining offseason coming up, lots of money moving and vets leaving. 

Well, that's yet to be seen. Assuming Jim can move those vets that should be moved like Sutter, and Beagle, Roussel even. 

 

Lots of people are okay with Gaudette moving on. I like Gaudette. I think he's struggled this season, but I think he can be a decent third line winger (not centre). Virtanen, I have been so supportive of all these years, but it is time to move on from Jake. If after 7 years in the league he hasn't broken out yet, I'm not sure if years 8, 9, and 10 will make it happen. I can't recall a player who has taken almost 10 years to get their $&!# together with regards to their career. If his career launches once he's out of Vancouver, well, I'd &^@#ing be pissed. 

 

[sockeye]

1 hour ago, Aladeen said:

You’re assuming TT was willing to sign for what he signed for in Montreal, you don’t know that’s the case at all.

Yup.   We'll never know because the negotiations never started.  I would have at least liked to see an offer given to TT.  If he wouldn't take a reasonable offer, then we would have an excuse to move on.  My beef is giving up assets (with no returns) for 10 regular season games and 7 playoff games. 

 

I liked Benning's trade for TT.  From the short time I saw TT in a Canucks uniform, I saw a character guy who had a good skillset and I was very disappointed that we couldn't move some salary/player(s) out so we could sign him.  I thought he would be a good veteran role model for the young core.  

 

I must reluctantly admit, there is one so-so silver lining that came out of this; we got a chance to see Hoglander emerge as a starter.  If the Canucks could have had a better start in their first 15 games and they were in playoff contention, I probably wouldn't even bring this issue up.

 

I know it will be difficult with the quarantine issue but, I would be happy if we could obtain an asset or two before the trade deadline because this team isn't going to make the playoffs.  I would be happy with a pick or two or maybe a young defenceman coming back to us.

[Aladeen]

1 minute ago, sockeye said:

Yup.   We'll never know because the negotiations never started.  I would have at least liked to see an offer given to TT.  If he wouldn't take a reasonable offer, then we would have an excuse to move on.  My beef is giving up assets (with no returns) for 10 regular season games and 7 playoff games. 

 

I liked Benning's trade for TT.  From the short time I saw TT in a Canucks uniform, I saw a character guy who had a good skillset and I was very disappointed that we couldn't move some salary/player(s) out so we could sign him.  I thought he would be a good veteran role model for the young core.  

 

I must reluctantly admit, there is one so-so silver lining that came out of this; we got a chance to see Hoglander emerge as a starter.  If the Canucks could have had a better start in their first 15 games and they were in playoff contention, I probably wouldn't even bring this issue up.

 

I know it will be difficult with the quarantine issue but, I would be happy if we could obtain an asset or two before the trade deadline because this team isn't going to make the playoffs.  I would be happy with a pick or two or maybe a young defenceman coming back to us.

For sure I don’t disagree with any of that at all but I feel like the reason the offer wasn’t tabled was because JB was trying to shore up the most important position lacking on the team and that was top pairing D man. 

[sockeye]

Just now, Aladeen said:

For sure I don’t disagree with any of that at all but I feel like the reason the offer wasn’t tabled was because JB was trying to shore up the most important position lacking on the team and that was top pairing D man. 

Yes, that's likely true.  I had mixed feelings about a trade for Ekman-Larsson.  That would've been an upgrade to our D for sure but I didn't like his long term contract.  To me, that was a bridge too far.  $8.25 million to the end of 2025-26 was too much of an investment for a 29 year old; especially, when we had Hughes and EP to sign (and Demko).  I would've cut bait earlier in the negotiations and moved on.  I really liked Benning's trade for Schmidt which was a good consolation prize. 

 

I just wish we were further along in our rebuild and/or had more assets at our disposal; but we have definitely had worse GMs.